Within the V2 forum people is trying to recreate V3 strong points within the V2 gaming engine.

That is: V3 of course has it's strong points and not just few of them... too bad they are countered by weak ones (namely marketing philosophy). So apparently people is trying to recreate them within V2.

Why am I posting this there? Well to tell that it is not necessary to fall in the collectable spiral in order to play a narrative dice system with die pools and cool rules.

Ah of course that there is no need of cards and tokens neither... everything can be done without fancy and expensive materials, believe me.

I know I will not get any constructive answer to this thread but I feel it is right that the people know that because knowledge is freedom.

Erik Bauer said:

You might get a few more replies if you drop the supercilious tone. See if that bit of knowledge gives you freedom.

(funnily enough I was composing in my mind a proper reply, ignoring your tone, regarding what points it was that you did want to include in your games, until i read that last sentence)

I'm actually trying to do something similar for an upcoming Dark Heresy campaign. Whether or not these rules are appropriate to the GRIM DARK setting is irrelevant to me and my players, so that's another discussion altogether.

Here are a few things that I'm thinking of bringing along:

1. The Party Sheet

To promote a degree of cohesiveness and teamwork, I'd like to dish out Fortune Points on the Party Sheet for rewarding the players (for good roleplaying, great ideas, actions that make the story more interesting, rules and logic be damned etc...). Once the number of Fortune Points on the sheet = the number of players, I empty it out and every player gets a Fortune Point.

This I would do instead of dishing out small bits of experience.

2. Fortune and Misfortune in dice rolls

There are a lot of different possibilities with this. One idea that I liked a lot was that when a player rolls doubles, whether it is a success or not, something special happens. Perhaps if the numbers are even, they get a benefit, if the results are odd, then something bad happens. This is decided by the GM or players, not sure ( I guess that it depends on the flow at the moment).

3. Initiative

I personally LIKE the idea that the party decides as a group who acts when in the initiative order. This topic opens a big can of worms, though. Some people really despise this idea. Well, I'm using it, because to me, everyone acts at the same time in combat, so whatever.

4. Criticals

When someone gets three degrees of success on an attack roll (melee or ranged), the target gets a minor critical, even if they haven't been reduced to zero wounds. The exact mechanics of this are still being worked on. Any ideas or suggestions?

Hmmm, I have pretty much used all four of these, to one degree or the other in both 1st and 2nd WFRP for years.

Encourageing party unity (and discourageing it at times as well), Using looser initiative rules, Describing minor critials/fumbles based on "degrees of success"/narrating what the die rolls mean-and encouraging players to do so as well....

So, I guess I don't have much of an interest in converting 3rds system to 2nd or 1st edition ....It's not that these are new ideas to my mind, but that it is a different way of presenting them to the players, using a system that is designed with these ideas in mind that interests me.

.

Erik Bauer said:

As Fabs, said a change of tone would help you greatly. Many of us can see through marketing as well, but thanks for the tip I guess. A few points in your post (and past posts) make it sound like you are the only person capable of thinking, and to say that puts people off would be an understatement. I don't agree with your claim that you HAVE to buy all the supporting materials to play the game. Currently I have no plans to buy the toolkit or the dice as I have no need for them. Everything I need to play is in the core set. People just have to make up their own minds on whether they want to buy something or not.

Personally, even though I am a Warhammer fan, I have no desire to run anything related to 1st and 2nd edition WFRP. It is however a cool idea to take new concepts and apply them to older systems. All of us need some inspiration after things get stagnant and this would be a great way to mix it up.

Erik Bauer said:

Erik,

What started out as a great question, capable of creating inspirational debated, ended up coming across as "I hate this system and you guys suck, but maybe I can squeeze something useful out of you." So even though your tone leaves a lot to be desired, I have some suggestions for you, if nothing else just so demonstrate that it's not so hard to stop whinging be more constructive. Use them or ignore them as you will.

Fortune dice and dice pools:

I like the idea of dice pools. There's no reason you can't use them with numeric dice. While playing, any time you give your players a mod, have them pick up an extra d10 or d6 and add it to the roll. You could slide them dice that add modifiers as you describe a scene. Perhaps dark colored dice for negative mods, and light colored for positive.

Criticals:

If you wanted to adopt a critical system, you could do the same, add another dice type to the pool - say a d12 or something odd. Then you could reference a core chart to see of a crit was generated. Say a 1 in 12 or 2 in 12 chance, then cross reference another chart based on the already dropped core hit roll. The more often you cause crits to be triggered, the more you would need 'not so deadly' entries. If you wanted a LOT of criticals each combat, make most of the chart minor things.

In the future it wouldn't hurt to try not being so negative when asking for help. Eventually people will just start ignoring you.

Fabs said:

QFT

Even I was put off on the way you presented the question Erik.

WFRPv2... isn't that the one where you use miniatures and a map with grid squares on it? No thanks, feels too much like a board game to me, moving around minis and stuff.

NewTroski said:

No it isn't.

NezziR said:

I think it would be cumbersome to fully recreate the dice system (a 4 on a D6 is a Boon, 5+ is a Success, etc...) as you're adding the step of translating numbers to results. That said, you could just go with a simple "5+ is a success" mechanic, and modify dice rolls by the size of the die. D4s would be negative (as they're essentially automatic failures). In fact, the target number could equal the challenge rating, essentially - a 10+ difficulty would require certain dice and represent a very difficult task, 4+, not so much.

Abstract movement is another one that would work extremely well, and be even more portable. It's facilitated by the fatigue system, so you'd have to represent that as well; easy enough, just throw negative modifier counters down that work against Toughness. This would be a great addition to v2, as it firmly sets the game as apart from tactical, grid-oriented RPGs as something more narrative.

Many people have suggested that the tone in your letter was putting them off, maybe you fumbled a writting check or are considered untrained in it?

I wasn`t offended.

Btw: I wanted to say this before, but I like your qoute, Solkan is one of my favourites of the Law-gods, next to the lost Chaos god Malal -the anti-chaos force.