Hi,

I'm GM'ing quite a large group at the moment and a trend has developed in the combat sequence that is beginning to throw up some problems.

Several of the characters are using the delay action to effectily give them 1 full action and a half action in the same turn, which was fine untill one of the characters combined lightening attack and a second pistol shot to drop a Pretoriun Battle servitor in one round (he is using a power weapon and an inferno pistol).

is this the way delay is ment to work as it is becoming more and more common in the group and making it difficult to provide them with a challenge in combat (though with 2 guardsmen, 1 arbite, 2 tech priests, 1 gunslinger, 1 scum, and 1 eldar in the group its a challenge if they are lightly armed).

Any thoughts and opinions on this would be greatly recieved.

Matt

Surak said:

But at the same time, in order to make a delay action you have to stand around a full round doing nothing, and during that time the Praetorian Battle Servitor could very well pump you full of lead...

Like Varnias said, take advantage of them standing around during a combat. Have the bad guys maneuver to better positions, or surround characters to get a melee bonus. Maybe a grenade is tossed near by them while they stand around and wait. Do things to get the players out of position or to force them into bad positions. Be mean, you're the GM not the tooth fairy.

It can get as cheesy as delaying to get to act in concert with every other ally.

Luckily you can fix this one (getting full and a half action) by doing exactly the same as other rules systems do: make delay drop their initiative next round to the score they delayed to. This way there is always (at least) one full round between half/full actions of the same character. This also restores delaying to what it is: waiting for something to happen - thus wasting time. You're not supposed to get time you spent back later. Not in my universe, anyway.

Also, if they delay to when their turn comes up again, they should be losing their held action. They get to delay until their turn, once their turn comes back around they have waited too long. Basically you need some kind of buffer (NPC or other Player action) between your held and next actions. This is how my group runs delays in all games. If you don't use it, you lose it.

I think you might be doing it wrong.

How are the PC's getting a full action then a half action? Is tis do to holding a half action until the end of the round, then using it, then doing a full action on their next round? If so, then your doing it right. However, if the PC's are preforming a full action then using a delay action to get a free half action latter that round, then your doing it wrong -the delay action takes a half action to use but then gives a half action latter. At most, in a single round, a character that delays will be able to use a half action to do something like make a half move then spend their second half action to delay getting a single half action to shoot at the enemy sometime before the round ends.

Also, if your PC's are holding on to their delay action and using it in the fallowing round, again, you guys are doing it wrong. If you do not use your held half action by the time the round ends, you lose it and the next round begins.

There's simply no way you can get more then a Full Action. That is the limit. That is the maximum anyone can have. It's a 100% action. It's all they've got. I could go on saying little quips.

Edit: Like Chester, i treat delay a bit more harshly then it's discribed in the book. in my game, and this is just mine, It costs a half action and simply allows them to use their second half action at a latter time. In other words, if they delay, they only get a half action that round, but a half action they ca use at any time they see fit. This is to represent them reacting as opposed to acting. But, by the RAW, it costs a half action and gives one to be used before that round is over.

I'm not entirely sure how delay is a good thing in the above example. If the PC had not taken delay they could have just fired normally and done something else like taken cover, advanced, or fired full auto. Instead they risk being taken out before they get off a shot. If the other guy wasn't in sight/range this just sounds like a good tactic.

Also remember you can take the same half action in a given turn (page 188 upper right). If the PC fired, and delayed they can't fire again until their next turn. Of course if it's the next turn they have lost the delayed action.

Thank you all for your responces.

I think im just going to take the simple solution of 'you can't have more than one full action and a reaction per turn'

it seems the simplest way of solving the problem, and with our group simple is always best.

In any case it will be very interesting to see how our melee powerhouses deal with a change to the rule that has so far allowed them to avoid death 3 times. I will post a bit of feed back once we have had a few sessions to let you know how the change worked.

Thanks,

Matt

Graver said:

Doesn't the 'banked' half-action last until before the character's next turn (i.e. across rounds)? Sure enough that does make it a bit interesting if they decide to delay until just before their turn and then rattle off the half-action followed by their full-action for that round.

When used in this way Delay could be used a cheeky means to bypass dodge and parry defences . If the OP's players are using it to 'break' the game, or at least making it less fun, then I don't think it would be unreasonable to have the PCs enemies start pulling the same tactic or to change the way in which it operates in their game

Graver said:

No they're actually doing it right.

The delay action is based on turns, not rounds. One round is a segment of time where all the combatants turns take place, once all combatants hae finished their turns, a new round begins.

However, the delay action celarly states:

When you use the delay action, your turn ends immediately, but you reserve a Half Action for later use. Any time before your next turn , you can take your reserved half action.

If your prepared action isn't taken before your next turn , it is lost.

So, any combatant would be well within it's rights according to the RAW to delay, wait until the following round and use their reserved Half Action before their next turn begins, effectively getting 1 Full Action and 1 Half Action all during the same round.

So, just to be clear here, the Delay action is only interested in any characters turn, not the entire combat round.