I have player who has saved enough thrones for a suit of light power armor. But the +10 to strength and better armor does not seem

to justify the cost. Does power armor have lifesupport, comlinks, darksight or any other abilities?

It's not just the abilities it gives that justify the cost, but the rarity of it. Barely anyone has power armour, because it's hard to produce, which in turn makes it expensive.

Millandson attributes some of the cost of power armor to its rarity, I agree. Power armor is pretty rare, especially out on the fringe of Imperial space where the Calixis Sector is located (I.E. pricing is determined). I think a good chunk of the upper tier weapons and armor are like this. While being expensive, the GM could easily use this as a plot hook or a reward in itself.....for a more unique item.

I think this is one reason we are now seeing so many discussions about the DH vs. RT weapon/armor/item purchasing systems. The systems are both viable, but when you think about a galaxy wide civilization it seems that the system for purchasing items needs to be a little more abstract and a little more forgiving ( like RT). I think that prices also would be different from planet to planet and system to system, depending on the economics and relative distance from Terra, a forge world which produces specific high-tech items, or specific artisans or craftspeople whom could make interesting story fodder.

just my 2cents.

PS- you could also adjust the price and or availability up or down based on quality, chance of malfunction, extra tech built into the suit, like coms, darkvision, etc.

Typically through out the GW powerarmours history it as worked as a void suit, contains photovisor, com bead with multiple channels and differing ranges of security, vision enhancement, noise dampener, noise enhancement, locs down to become like an immovable obect (though it can still be knocked over, but its harder to do, but a cran would still pick it up easy enough), life support, works like recoil gloves, radation proofed (but not nearly so much as the TDA suits), extreme temperatures proof, suitable for underwater stuff like a deep sea suit.

Thertes probably more, but right now i'm about to eat a curry and i dont want to keep it waiting.

RT power armour is fully sealed with an internal rebreather and oxygen supply. Dark sight, heightened senses (sight) and a microbead can be added to any armour helmet with an advanced helmet system, but don't come standard.

Another system that might be built into a suit of power armor is an auto-injector with reservoirs for various drugs, like pain killers, stimulants, and coagulants, and perhaps poison antidote as well if it's known before-hand what you will be facing. It's a bit difficult to administer such substances when you are operating in a hostile environment, after all. I also wouldn't be surprised if these suits have some sort radiation shielding built in.

It's a bit difficult to administer such substances when you are operating in a hostile environment, after all.

It's also a bit difficult to administer them when your body is encased by probably upwards of 5 cm of armour, so having an autoinjector system inside the armour might indeed be practical.

Kirov said:

Given that it's a thick, fully-enclosed suit of armour made from several layers of different metals and ceramics, some of which are quite dense, the armour itself should act as radiation shielding.

Radiation shielding isn't some mystical property that gets added on afterwards; it's a matter of composition, primarily (but not entirely) material density.

Another thing they've been reported to have built in mag-boots for space walks.

Of course much of the above features are found in Space Marine and Sister armor. Which is a lot better than the average suit of armor. That said most of the various upgrades listed are well within the budget of a power owner. (And it's not like prior owners wouldn't have install many of them.) The one thing everyone has missed is mounting weapons on the armor. Carrying around an assault cannon is pretty hard, but with power armor it can be mounted on your arm....

from france

a quick side note if you consider that everything for the mechanicum is mystical than radiation are mystical. beyond that i agree with no-1_H3r3.

just a another side note unsless especialy train like space marine a power amor make you a obvious target.

the 8 spider said:

Be careful not to take the techno-mysticism too far. Radiation is understood more or less to be harmful cosmic energy. I doubt the true science of radiation is understood. That said, its existence, effects, and prevention are.

In 40k many have a rudimentary understanding of scientific phenomena. That understanding is simply filtered through a lense of ignorance and superstition.

Atheosis said:

Well there are some people who most likely understand the concepts of radiation. Especially since the Rad Cleanser (a weapon described in the Forge World chapter of Inquisitors Handbook), is a weapon that basically shoots a beam of concentrated and harmful radiation at it's targets.

While many things in the Imperium are constructed by rote and not by true knowledge, it would be safe to assume that some people know the truth about certain inner workings of some weapons (like with plasma guns, whose rarity are ascribed to the fact that only a few forge worlds actually know how to build them, unlike lasguns which pretty much every world aside from the most primitive ones knows how to build).

The argument here of course is that if they can construct a weapon that cause damage by shooting out different spectrums of radiation, then naturally the inventor and the safekeepers of the inventors knowledge knows how radiation works and the physics involved.

from france

i still cling to my point of view. i wil explain. i do not argue about the fact that somme of the mechanicus do understand what they do but unless they do not believe in the omnissia whitch make them heretics they bless their creations. they talk about the mystery of the plasma ( see bfg), the talk about the sacred act of anointed whith blessed oil the button "on" on each machine. so even if they do understand radiations and it 's nature and again unless they are atheist they have a mystical point of view about it so in a way radiation are a mystical thing.

so i hope it clarify my point of view.

the 8 spider said:

Yes, most techpriests do have a mystical view of certain technology and physical phenomena. The Mechanicus are all about elitism and jealously guarded secrets, and the lower ranked you are, the less of these secrets are you privy to. Which means that most of the physics and actual technological workings involved seem extremely "mysterious" to the non-Mechanicus and the lowest ranking techpriests.

It would only be the highest ranking magos who possess any real understanding of technological and physical workings, and even they don't know everything because they even guard secrets from eachother as well.

So while one Magos might know the "secular" explanation of how to build a plasma rifle, another Magos might not have the slightest idea of how to do it, and the first Magos would probably never feel inclined to share that information with the latter Magos, because in the Adeptus Mechanicus, knowledge is power. Sharing knowledge means giving power away, and would most likely be considered a crime, because there are inherent risks of giving power to people who might not be appropriate to hold such power.

All Magi knows this, and they know that if they would do the altruistic and "right" thing (well "right" from a real world, modern perspective that is), their monopoly on technology would be taken away from them, and the Mechanicus would have their power severely reduced. So instead of sharing information, they keep it secret, and what little they do divulge, they shroud in mysticism so the lowest members might be able to operate advanced technology, but still not have any real understanding of how it actually works.

And when the fluff speaks of "nearly lost" technology, it means that there are only a few Magi who knows how to build that technology. And they are not about to share that information with anyone, because that knowledge keeps them in power. Only a "worthy successor" would be privy to such information, and with regards to how paranoid and mysterious most Magi are, it would be a difficult task indeed to prove yourself to one.

So it's sort of like this:

If you're a normal human being and you meet with some mechanicus and say:

-"Hey! I wanna be a techpriest!"

they're gonna go:

-"Well, do you know anything about technology"

and you go:

-"Well no, not really. I just know the stuff about respecting machine spirits and all that, but nothing else."

They're gonna THINK:

-"Ahh, then we'll have you jumping through many hoops of religious nonsense without actually telling you anything of how stuff works. We're also gonna take out a lot of vital organs from your body and install some cybernetics instead, meaning that if they ever break down or malfunction you're gonna need US to help you. Just to make sure you stay loyal to our 'religion', and don't go off telling people of our oh so important secrets. If you keep that loyalty up, then MAYBE we'll tell you some of our secrets."

The Adeptus Mechanicus is as much a conspiracy as it is a religion devoted to science.

Varnias Tybalt said:

There most certainly are factions of the Mechanicus that are as you describe. They might best be described as the radicals of the Mechanicus. Most Magi remain devout believers in the Omnissiah. They may understand the workings of technology more clearly, but they ultimately still believe that the Machine God is behind it all.

Double post.......

Varnias Tybalt said:

I disagree, at least with the details of this interpretation. The Mechanicus is built around the notion that "knowledge is power" is taken to its most literal extreme. However, I tend to see even the least of initiated Tech-Priests being far, far more knowledgeable about technology than the common man. The secrets of technology that are so heavily guarded are not the kinds of things that the average teenager today is taught at school (which includes a little about ionising radiation), but rather the highest examples of ancient scientific and technological lore - the manipulation of plasma as weapons and as a power source, the true Machine Spirits of Titans and Starships, genetic engineering, the creation of Geller Fields and other technologies that interact with the Warp.

IMO, the mysticism is, within the Mechanicus itself, more a matter of the secrets themselves (and the matter of obscuring those secrets from the attentions of outsiders), rather than a mystical outlook - by merit of being initiated into the cult and seeing the least of its secrets, a Tech-Priest must inherently understand that it isn't some form of incomprehensible magic that makes these machines work, but simply a secret they haven't yet been able to obtain and understand - those that can't comprehend this should not be Tech-Priests in the first place, because a Tech-Priest who doesn't understand that every mystery is a secret not yet uncovered is of no use in the Quest for Knowledge and unfit for purpose.

For me, it's far less about the conspiracy and far more about the practicality of the matter - and the Mechanicus are nothing if not ruthlessly practical. If you can't do the job they want you to do, then you're unfit for purpose... the fate of such beings is not pleasant. The Mechanicus has untold billions of other creatures in its service to perpetuate the conspiracy; menials and Skitarii and everyone else who isn't a Tech-Priest and thus entrusted with the important task of the Quest for Knowledge.

Varnias Tybalt said:

IMO, that side of things happens long before admittance into the Priesthood - years, even decades before initiation and the revelation of true knowledge. Not everybody has what it takes to be a Tech-Priest, and long years of servitude to the Omnissiah in a lesser capacity is just the way to weed out the capable from the irrelevant.

Dalnor Surloc said:

Is it?

The only power armour with worse performance than the stuff sisters wear that I can remember is Witch Hunter Tyrus's. Amberley's powersuit is better [and appears from the built in weapons to be Orrus hunt armour.]

Necromunda Hunt armour is better than Sisterhood gear. Marine armour is better than sisterhood gear [especially in novels not centering on either.]

I was under the impresion that the Light Power Armour was the Sisterhood issue with the full version being Spacemarine/Hunt Armour.

from france

nop sister are batlle arlmor the difference between there and those of the spacemaine is that the spacemaines have another option (forget the name) witch alow them more systemes and abetter coordination.

in the inquisitor handbook if i remenber correctly there is a kind of fashion pwer amor for fancy noble whose qualities aren't better than the best quality carapace armor appart maybe for in buil visor breather...

they are of less qualities than light power armor.

as a fan of necromunda i disagree the spirer ( appart the matriarch) do wear power armor by that i mean armor who are powered by some source of energie but they do not function at all like imperial armor. so the comparison do not convinced me. they are not power armor in the classical way.

sister armor are fine for me.

I base SM armor being much better on:

1)The black carapace link providing better linkage to the power armor. Most PC don't have anything similar to link them to the armor.

2)SM being the presented as the elite of the Imperium. Thus having better armor.

3)The one SM stated for DH had armor that had much better stats than a best quality suit of power in the DH main book.

4)SM armor doesn't need to be recharged every 1-5 hours.

Now that not to say I subscribe to the idea that PC power armor doesn't have any features. It's unlikely that a PC will get a "new" suit. Thus prior users would have insured that it had a decent sensor package and other upgrades.

from france

just a side note i make amend i wrote very badly my last post. sorry it is verry late here and i was in a sleepy mood.

yes i was talking about the carapace link the one thing that set appart the sm armor from the other. don't forget that PA can have arms mounted weapons to and i think that a tech priest can link the energegy of the PA (the battery) to any energy weapons like las. in this way i think ther is no need for enrgy pack for the weapon but it will shorten the effectiveness of the PA battery.

from france

after reading the rules of the spyrer. the matriarch seems to wear an armor but it doesn't seems to be power armor. all spyrer power armor are equipped with the following equipement bio-booster, fliter plug and photo contact. all these equipement can be transtlated to DH equipement and that doesn't make them better than that of the sister.

the differences are on a case by case basis. like power shield. which are not a standard equipement for sister PA. however sister PA has other option. so i don't think they can be compared.