Several rules questions.

By ornatov, in Warhammer Invasion Rules Questions

After playing a couple games, I've found some questions that are not answered by the rulebook. Some of them are fairly common to TCGs (order of simulaneous effects determined by the active player, etc.), some are unique to W:I.

Is there a FFG rules representative on this forum? (I've looked through some of the questions posted, and didn't notice any username/signature that would indicate affiliation with FFG.)

At any rate, onto the questions. These are just ones that apply to the game in general, without getting into the questions on specific cards.

1. I've searched all over for a FAQ - is there one?

2. Who decides first that they do not wish to play any actions when they have the opportunity to do so? Is it determined by whose turn it is, or something else?

3. Do the words "cannot attack or defend" (for example - 'Franz's Decree') mean "Cannot be assigned to attack or defend" or "Cannot be an attacking or defending unit"?

4. When do I play actions "In Response"? After the action I'm responding to has been announced? After the costs have been paid? After the targets have been chosen? Sometime else?

5. When two things (Forced Effects, etc.) are trying to happen at the same time, who determines what order they happen in?

6. Does combat damage have to be applied for the 'Scout' keyword to kick in? For example, if the only unit in combat has the Scout keyword, and it's on the Defending side, does the attacker have to discard a card?

7. Can "uncancellable" damage be cancelled by effects that are not Toughness?

8. Can damage be assigned to a Burning section of the Capital?

9. Can attacks be declared against a Burning section of the Capital?

10. What does the word "played" mean? Announced? Costs paid? Targets chosen? Resolved? All of the above? From your hand, or from anywhere?

11. Who gets the chance to play actions first in any given action window?

12. What card type are developments? Are they 'unit', 'support', 'tactic', 'quest' cards? If not, do they become those when they go into the discard pile? For example, will the effect of Dwarf Ranger trigger when a development that is a Dwarf Unit leave play, and hit the discard pile?

13. What does the word "play" mean? Almost the same as the question about "played". An example: I've put into play from my hand a 'Limited' card. Am I allowed to put into play a 'Limited' card on the same turn with the effect of Dwarf Cannon Crew?

Thank you.
~Andrew

1. No FAQ yet.

2. Does it matter which one decides first? I mean if the other one takes action the other player can make a response action. Usually in our plays the active player just goes through turn phases and does actions he wants and asks the other one if he wants to do anything.

3. It means that unit cannot be declared attacker/defender. It has to be played before declaring the unit as an attacker or defender unit.

4. After the other player has announced that he plays an action, you play an action in response after that. Actually you can response to that too and so forth, then all the actions are done in LIFO (Last in first out) format and then you see what happens ^^.

5. Active player.

6. Just see if after combat any unit with scout is alive and scout effect kicks in.

7. Not sure, I think it's completely uncancellable.

8. There's some debate about that, no official word yet?

9. Yes.

10. ?

11. I don't think it matters who plays first, or rather usually you don't want to play first, because the action that is played "in response" happens first. I have hard time imagining a situation where players would start to fight who gets to do action first.

12. They're developments :) . Dwarf Ranger ability doesn't proc from a development leaving play, even if it was a unit card.

13. Actually that's a good question. Dwarf cannon crew says "Forced: After this unit enters play, search the top five cards of your deck for a support card with cost 2 or lower and put it into this zone, if able. Then shuffle your deck." I have no answer to this :)

oooh, good questions...

a development can be made from any card... you can choose up to one card to play as a development during your capital phase. at that point it is placed face down in the area you want, and ceases to be whatever it was and is now just a development.

Play means take from your hand and put into play.

I think that the "unofficial official word" based on discussion from Nate is that you cannot assign or apply damage to a burning area. A future FAQ may change this.

Not sure about limited cards.. I would think the CANNOT on the limited card overrides the Forced on the cannon card, since that is the definition of CANNOT in this game... um, i think there is a cannot on the limited card... correct me if im wrong, im not looking at it.

Hi...I'd like to say my opinion in a couple of issues...

2. Who decides first that they do not wish to play any actions when they have the opportunity to do so? Is it determined by whose turn it is, or something else?

Actually it's pretty important. I'm pretty sure the active player goes first. Remember that if you want to do something but you want to wait your oppo's choice, and say "I pass", if you'r oppo understands your "waiting for him" he can say pass and quit the "opportunity to take actions" (when both players pass the game moves in the next step).

4. When do I play actions "In Response"? After the action I'm responding to has been announced? After the costs have been paid? After the targets have been chosen? Sometime else?

Important thing is to notice that a "response" can be played when you've completely PAID for a card...For "paid" I mean: pay cost, choose targets, etc.

7. Can "uncancellable" damage be cancelled by effects that are not Toughness?

It's completely Uncancellable, has Lafi guessed.

8. Can damage be assigned to a Burning section of the Capital?

No rulings, but I'd say NO. In this way, I can assign "damage" to it to prevent other sections from burning/being dealt damage...I.E. Followers of Mork's damage would be assigned to a burning section...I don't know that you can't do it because it's "unfair" ;) , I just say that it's more logical.

11. Who gets the chance to play actions first in any given action window?

As above, the Active Player.

13. What does the word "play" mean? Almost the same as the question about "played". An example: I've put into play from my hand a 'Limited' card. Am I allowed to put into play a 'Limited' card on the same turn with the effect of Dwarf Cannon Crew?

I'm pretty sure that "PLAYED" means "Pay + Choose targets".

About Limited: rulebook's ruling about limited says that you can't "PLAY" more than a Limited card per round...So, a put in to play effect seems to be allowed.

Bye.

1. I've searched all over for a FAQ - is there one?
Not yet.

2. Who decides first that they do not wish to play any actions when they have the opportunity to do so?
The active play has the first opportunity to take any action so they get the first opportunity not to take an action.

3. Do the words "cannot attack or defend" (for example - 'Franz's Decree') mean "Cannot be assigned to attack or defend" or "Cannot be an attacking or defending unit"?
Are you asking if you play this after a unit has been declared would it stop them from attacking or defending? The answer is no. No card in this game undoes an action retroactively. Any card that would remove a participating unit would say remove target unit fm Combat or some similarly worded phrase. Cannot Attack or Defend means from this point on that card can't be declared as an attacker or defender.

4. When do I play actions "In Response"?
After the card has been played but before it resolves. In order to play a card everything must be paid for and all targets must be chosen.

5. When two things (Forced Effects, etc.) are trying to happen at the same time, who determines what order they happen in?
The active player makes all decisions about the order of resolution of simultaneous or conflicting effects.

6. Does combat damage have to be applied for the 'Scout' keyword to kick in?
No, it simply must participate in combat and survive through the last step, apply damage.

7. Can "uncancellable" damage be cancelled by effects that are not Toughness?
No, because otherwise the damage would not be uncancellable.

8. Can damage be assigned to a Burning section of the Capital?
No.

9. Can attacks be declared against a Burning section of the Capital?
Yes.

10. What does the word "played" mean?
When a card has had all of its cost paid, decisions made, targets chosen, and placed on the table from your hand.

11. Who gets the chance to play actions first in any given action window?
The active player.

12. What card type are developments?
Developments are developments and only developments. They do not revert to their normal card type until they cease being developments. There is only one card in the game now that does that, the Orc tactic "Rip Dere 'Eads Off!" When a development leaves play, it is a development that leaves play. Once it hits the discard pile, an out of play state, it becomes whatever type of card it says, but no card can react to it leaving play that does not say development as the qualifying card type, since the other type was never in play.

13. What does the word "play" mean?
Played means a card that has been put on the table into the play state. But you are asking the wrong question here. What you should be asking is not the definition of play (which the definition is overly vague and generalized for the root of your question), but what, if any, is the difference between playing a card and putting a card into play? The answer is that they are two totally different mechanisms that achieve the same end result. As I said above all cards that are played have costs paid, decisions and targeting choices made, and enters into play from your hand. Put into play does not have any costs of the card paid, but instead you must pay the cost of the effect that is putting the card(s) into play. All decisions and targeting choices are made, and it enters play, but not necessarily from your hand, but from any out of play area as defined/chosen by the card effect. So yes, since the definition of Limited is you may not play more than one a turn and Dwarf Cannon Crew says to put it into play, you may put into play a second card with the Limited keyword. If you played two Dwarf Cannon Crews, you could potentially end up with multiple Limited cards in play all in the same phase.

All of these except for 12 are either directly from the Rules book or have been confirmed with Nate. A number of these (if not all) have been correctly answered by the people above me, I just wanted to put them all together for ease of reading.

#8: No.

#9: Equally no. I think it's explicitly stated in the rulebook, but any way, let's try a tree-solving solution:

Let's consider player A wants (for some unfathomable reason, as we'll see) to attack player's B burning zone. Let's also consider that the attacker has the upper hand, at least a priori (as no tactic cards have been played yet). Why take this assumption? Because otherwise, what would the point be for the attacker?

Now, player B has the choice to either defend or not.

Possible outcomes:

1.- Player A attacks, B doesn't defend. This is the most likely outcome, as there's no benefit for player B to defend, because the zone is already in flames, he doesn't want to risk his units. As he can do so, any damage may be assigned to the zone, but not applied, as a burning token supersedes the need for tokens. Once a zone is burning, there's no going back to damage tokens. It stays burning for good.

2.- Player A attacks, B defends. This would only make sense if B had some trick under his sleeve, in the form of tactic cards, that A didn't contemplate beforehand.

Anyway, why attack a burning zone, knowing that it's the defender's choice to assign units for defense? If the defender doesn't seem the point of defending, he will not, BUT if he does, attacker beware! As he will probably win the battle.

#13: As stated in the rules, the cards override the rules. So if a card specifies that you can eg 'play the top 3 cards in your deck as developments in your battle zone', then you most certainly CAN.

My two pennies. I could be wrong. <Still awaiting a FAQ>

ABOUT Question 13: The fact that you CAN, doesn't depend on the "override" factor, but because the LIMITED definition says that you cannot "PLAY MORE THAN A LIMITED CARD PER ROUND" and doesn't say anything about "put into play".

About UNITS attacking a BURNING zone. Even if it's appearently useless, there's nothing preventing a player from attacking a burning zone.

Side Note: EVERYTHING you mentioned was a GOOD point...But there are other possibilities...I can attack a burning zone just because I need (just guessing) a particular trigger/condition.

gui%C3%B1o.gif

Re: question 13, I don't know what the answer is but, if it is allowed, you could use a unit with the Scout trait on it to make the defender lose cards. So there is a valid strategy there.

Hurdoc said:

Re: question 13, I don't know what the answer is but, if it is allowed, you could use a unit with the Scout trait on it to make the defender lose cards. So there is a valid strategy there.

Good point, man. Exactly what I was lookin' for. gui%C3%B1o.gif

You can and I've did this to Nate in our last game... I'd smile and everything, but I got the trick from him, as he did it to me two games in a row prior. :(