It's been a while since I played Diplomacy, but I don't remember there being any neutral units. (Or was that a variant for fewer than seven players?) But its simultaneous action choice can be considered luck, of a sort.

If you consider Chess a wargame, that certainly doesn't involve any luck.

Lindsey said:

I was going to suggest that, but I didn't want to sound flippant. Chess requires a high degree of skill to be successful. It's a game I'm beginning to *really* get into, largely because I know I'll never find anyone to play FFG games with me....

I would definatly say chess is a war game. you got me now . but we can probably conclude that most games include some form of luck

sometimes it plays a big role other times it dosn't

darkkami said:

Yeah, we get it. Time to stop spamming these threads with your rants.

I just want to say that contrary to what has been said, not everyone completely adored the card system (and the battles in general) from Starcraft. I for one think the system makes the game boring and predictable.

It's just my personal opinion, I'm not trying to say Starcraft's system is better or worse than any other system, just don't call it "perfect" because a perfect system would please everyone and that's not the case. Anyway I'm glad FFG sees through that and keeps adding different elements to their games reworking some mechanics and introducing new ones.

Well, I said this elsewhere, but may as well mention it again: just look at what FFG has been putting out lately. I mean, their general approach to game development has been solid. I liked the card based mechanics in SC myself, but recognize they were cumbersome in ways, so then we see another, smoother variation come out in MEQ. I don't see any reason why the mechanics in RunWars, and in Horus Heresy (which will also use cards for combat from what I understand), should not be an even more refined system than in previous iterations.

Since we don't have the rules and only basic overviews of mechanics in the diaries, I think our best source for judgement now remains our past experience with FFG. Short of Android (which has some redeeming qualities, not enough, but some), I have yet to be burned by a big FFG title and I respect how they approach game design.

My favorite form of combat resolution is a combination of cards AND dice, with the former, few in number, modifying the latter. An example in a wargame is Academy Games' Conflict of Heroes, a WWII Russian front game. Cards can "personalize" a battle in ways dice cannot, but I love the physical act of rolling the dice. Actually, the best might be a combination of regular 6-sided dice, special "story" dice similar to Warhammer Fantasy Role Play 3 or for that matter DOOM (where dice introduce elements of range and ammunition), and cards. If I have a necromancer in my army, I use a special necromancer die that offers varying outcomes, a regular 6-sided die for overall combat resolution, and a card or two that introduces some special tactical element, one that could modify either of the other dice. If I have necromancers AND special knights, maybe I have two special "story" dice, etc. An opponent might be able to play an event card that would prevent me from using the necromancer die in a particular battle, and so on.

This is just really off-topic, as Runewars has no dice; I was just illustrating what for me would be a fun and intriguing combat resolution system. I was someone who had problems with Starcraft's card system for combat but I love the use of cards in MEQ. So I'm assuming Runewars will be just as intriguing and involving and not devolve into just drawing a random card to determine combat. That would lose a lot of flavor for me. I'm already sorry the heroes can't be used to influence battles, even though the quest game sounds interesting and fun.

MeisterH said:

Depends what you consider a wargame.

Vinci and Small World would come to my mind.

BTW - a question from my side: Does anyone know how Runewars compares to Warcraft the Boardgame (the old one, not either of the WOW games). I wonder if they scratch the same itch or wether they are sufficiently different.

I haven't played Warcraft the board game for awhile but as I remember, it scratches a very different itch. i wouldn't think of the two of them as comparable except in both treating fantasy themes.

A game with no luck?

Diplomacy. No cards, no dice, nothing but you and your "allies".

kilrah said:

You're freaking joking right? Or were you one of those who actually voted for Small World as a Wargame on BGG? Won't devolve into insults here...trying not too...but Small World is NOT A FREAKING WARGAME....

If that's the mindset of what composes a wargame, and that goes to what the FFG believes to be a wargame...if RW was to be a wargame (I'm under the impression it's not really a wargame...but I could be wrong too) we are in BIG trouble...though it may explain more strongly some of their reasonings of going with the card mechanics they've described (and Wargamers ARE a small group...a niche in a niche...so understandably FFG would go for a BIGGER group of the niche group of Boardgamers)...but...Small World is NOT a wargame...I think it created quite the sensational fury at BGG between the real wargamers and those who had no idea what wargames were.

Or, I suppose if we will call Small World a Wargame, we can therefore call Twlight Imperium a full fledged Role Playing Game (Note: I'm NOT callingTI an RPG, just pointing out an absurdity...at least in my opinion).

GreyLord said:

Sure it is...depending on which definition a person adheres to.

I do agree that this argument not need spill from the BBG forums to here though.

AKA George said:

Just like TI3e is an RPG depending on definition, and Ingenius is one too...all depends on the definition...

I'll digress though.

kilrah said:

From what I've seen in FFG's previews, Runewars has some elements of a wargame (army building, territory conquest) and also some elements of an adventure game (heroes go on quests and collect "rewards") It certainly won't be a traditional wargame, but my hope is it will combine the best of a tactical battle game with the best of a high fantasy questing/adventure game. Sort of like Runebound, plus armies. =)

I think you just did.