I have not flown B-wings that much, but I really like that G1A - such a beautiful ship and I want to fly 4 of them.

However I am struggling to understand its pricing as the Scum B-wing and I was really disappointed when it was revealed that the entry point cost was 23pt (for the Ruthless Freelancer). E.g. compare this with the TLT-Thug for 24pt. That is, for 1 point more you get the same combined hit points, same agility, "almost" similar dial, but trade a 3 dice in-arc primary attack to a 360 range 2-3 TLT attack, the latter which someone calculated as the equivalent of 3.65 dice and the TLT tends to dish out more consistent damage (which is important).

As the Kihraxz entry point was 20pt, I was hoping for FFG to price the entry point G1A at the same spot, such that you could have run 5 (perhaps with a pilot skill of 1 and no crew-slot). Alternative, it should have come natively with an EPT, or perhaps even 4 dice primary. Because I think you should be rewarded for flying and getting your target in arc. But of course that would leave the B-wing seriously underpowered in comparison. Yet the B-wing has an entry point of 22pt which allows the BBBBZ build (is that even still competitive??), but the 23pt entry of the G1A does not even allow that. The 22pt B-wing also allows for the 4 B adv. Sensors which in combination with barrel roll gives you some arc-dodging abilities the G1A also misses out on. The 4G1A also misses out on running 4 times accuracy corrector if it was reliable damage you were seeking.

No don’t get me wrong, I really like that it have different stats and thus needs to be equipped and flown differently from a B-wing.

I guess “the first saving grace” is the entry pilot-skill of 3, which allows you to fire first(!!) and hopefully take out a TLT-thug or one of the B’s in the first exchange, which puts you one up, as 3 thug TLT’s maxes out of 6 damage and thus cannot kill a G1A in the same round.

The “second saving grace” is all the 1-2 pt scum only crew, and this is where I am resting all my hopes.

So my question is this build in any way competitive?

Ruthless Freelancer

4-Lom

Ruthless Freelancer

Zuckuss

Ruthless Freelancer

Dengar

Ruthless Freelancer

4K-Security droid

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!170:173,-1,-1:-1:-1:;170:174,-1,-1:-1:-1:;170:178,-1,-1:-1:-1:;170:122,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=4G%27s

I guess the interesting part is the combination of different crew to help with different types of enemies. 4-Lom to help break the defense against a tokened up ship, Zuckuss to help against those with many greens, Dengar against aces (if you can block with the others to get them in arc) and the 4K-security droid to overall help with increasing the attack odds. But is it enough? and I am missing out completely on a viable 4G build?

You've got good analysis against the quad TLT list, but the quad TLT list is going to melt against triple jumpmasters. I think that is the new benchmark to think about. The good thing is that if you roll one evade or take one evade action, it takes three torpedoes to kill a G-1A (assuming no double damage crits).

Having said that, your first two G-1As have no attack modification, just defender dice or token modification. I could see you having trouble with Aces, who will definitely be around to arc dodge the Torpedoes.

You may have better luck with three heavy G-1As as compared to four really light ones. 4-Lom is a surprisingly good ace Hunter, with his stress passing. The systems slots are great, and if you go to the PS5 generics you have EPTs to play with.

The G-men pair great with Starvipers. Want a simple (but very effective) smash mouth list?

2x Black Sun Enforcers

2x Ruthless Freelancer+FCS

However I am struggling to understand its pricing as the Scum B-wing and I was really disappointed when it was revealed that the entry point cost was 23pt (for the Ruthless Freelancer).

Start by comparing it to the B-wing. It has a slightly better dial--an improvement, but probably not worth even a point. It has better pilot skill, which FFG has traditionally priced at 1 squad point per point of improvement in PS. That's sometimes not a good assumption, but here it jumps the Ruthless Freelancer over all PS1-2 generics. And finally, it trades the B-wing's barrel roll for evade. Repositioning is strong at high PS, but not nearly as useful at low PS--while evade is always useful, and provides substantial damage mitigation on a ship with 1 Agility. 23 points is probably about right, although you have to remain aware of that situational PS. (That is, if you're fighting a list that's all PS4+, you effectively paid a premium of 1-2 points per ship for a PS bid that didn't pay off.)

E.g. compare this with the TLT-Thug for 24pt. That is, for 1 point more you get the same combined hit points, same agility, "almost" similar dial, but trade a 3 dice in-arc primary attack to a 360 range 2-3 TLT attack, the latter which someone calculated as the equivalent of 3.65 dice and the TLT tends to dish out more consistent damage (which is important).

So you've painted a fairly accurate picture of the comparison between the Ruthless Freelancer and the Syndicate Thug + Twin Laser Turret. This indicates a potential pricing problem, but why is it necessarily a problem with the Freelancer? We have plenty of evidence otherwise that the TLT is probably a point or so too cheap, which makes that a pretty defensible explanation here.

As the Kihraxz entry point was 20pt, I was hoping for FFG to price the entry point G1A at the same spot, such that you could have run 5 (perhaps with a pilot skill of 1 and no crew-slot). Alternative, it should have come natively with an EPT, or perhaps even 4 dice primary. Because I think you should be rewarded for flying and getting your target in arc. But of course that would leave the B-wing seriously underpowered in comparison. Yet the B-wing has an entry point of 22pt which allows the BBBBZ build (is that even still competitive??), but the 23pt entry of the G1A does not even allow that. The 22pt B-wing also allows for the 4 B adv. Sensors which in combination with barrel roll gives you some arc-dodging abilities the G1A also misses out on. The 4G1A also misses out on running 4 times accuracy corrector if it was reliable damage you were seeking.

What you're leaning toward here is that if you bring much in the way of upgrades, you're likely to price yourself out of a GGGG list. And I think that's accurate, but why is that a bad thing? You have to make a tough choice, and IMO those kinds of choices should be implicated in listbuilding.

So my question is this build in any way competitive?

Ruthless Freelancer

4-Lom

Ruthless Freelancer

Zuckuss

Ruthless Freelancer

Dengar

Ruthless Freelancer

4K-Security droid

Probably not. You'll see fairly good games against ships with PS1-2, but that's not where the metagame is trending right now, and you're 4-8 points short of where you need to be against ships that are PS4 or higher.

I actually understand why the G-1A is 1 point more. The dial on the G-1A is slightly better than the B-wings. It has 1 less red maneuver and 1 more green. You also get 2 k-turns to choose from. You gain 1 PS, which is kind of big now. You trade evade for B/R, which is probably a more helpful action in the long run. You trade cannon for crew, which doesn't sound great at first, but Scum has some awesome crew options (OP's list looks fun). Really the only cannon you think about taking in a generic B-wing is either an Ion Cannon or an HLC anyway (which is expensive). You do lose two torp slots for a illicit upgrade, which is toss up now. Torps are a lot better than they used to be. The illicit slot does have some good options though.

Now that doesn't mean the generic G-1As aren't over-priced. You can argue that the Blue Squadron Pilot is over-priced to begin with.

I was actually thinking about a 4 G-1A w/ Feedback Array list. However, I will likely never try it out as I'm not buying 4 of them.

What I don't get is why everyone always tries to fly as many of one ship type in a list to see if that ship is viable? When all the podcasts talk about the new ship, they state it's just like a B-wing and 4 B-wings is dead. You won't ever play 4 Misthunters and it's a dead ship. So....why fly more than one? It's almost like just one is not an option? I especially think Scum is a good list where you can mix and match all the variants to come up with really cool list combos. Throw in all the other stuff to make a good All Comers list.

Why do people feel compelled to always max out on the same ship type? It multiplies the ship strengths, but also it's weaknesses.

Why do people feel compelled to always max out on the same ship type? It multiplies the ship strengths, but also it's weaknesses.

I think this is worth emphasizing. If you're running a "spam" list where all of the ships are the same (and often the same PS), you're going to have really good games against anything that can't beat you. But the moment someone figures out a combo or list that can beat you, you have no chance: there's no texture and no variation to your list, so you risk an opponent finding the key that "unlocks" all your ships and leaves you completely open.

Take a pair of G1-As and mix them with something else. You'll be amazed how much improvement you get in typical performance just by swapping in something with a different style.

And snicker-snack! Vorpal Sword cuts to the heart of the matter. Diversity isn't just awesome looking, it works better against the varied squads you might encounter.

What I don't get is why everyone always tries to fly as many of one ship type in a list to see if that ship is viable? When all the podcasts talk about the new ship, they state it's just like a B-wing and 4 B-wings is dead. You won't ever play 4 Misthunters and it's a dead ship. So....why fly more than one? It's almost like just one is not an option? I especially think Scum is a good list where you can mix and match all the variants to come up with really cool list combos. Throw in all the other stuff to make a good All Comers list.

Why do people feel compelled to always max out on the same ship type? It multiplies the ship strengths, but also it's weaknesses.

Maxing out on one ship probably happens for three reasons.

1) A little touch of OCD of which I'm guilty.

2) A bit easier to fly with all the same PS. No worries about bumping unless it's intentional.

3) They look pretty cool flying in formation!

Why do people feel compelled to always max out on the same ship type? It multiplies the ship strengths, but also it's weaknesses.

As a new player I prefer spam lists simply because of the learning curve. Although consistently good formation flying is tough, having several identical ships on the board helps some players (like me) remember their dials, upgrades, etc. Of course, spam lists usually end up hurting the wallet more than mix-and-match list building.

What I don't get is why everyone always tries to fly as many of one ship type in a list to see if that ship is viable? When all the podcasts talk about the new ship, they state it's just like a B-wing and 4 B-wings is dead. You won't ever play 4 Misthunters and it's a dead ship. So....why fly more than one? It's almost like just one is not an option? I especially think Scum is a good list where you can mix and match all the variants to come up with really cool list combos. Throw in all the other stuff to make a good All Comers list.

Why do people feel compelled to always max out on the same ship type? It multiplies the ship strengths, but also it's weaknesses.

Maxing out on one ship probably happens for three reasons.

1) A little touch of OCD of which I'm guilty.

2) A bit easier to fly with all the same PS. No worries about bumping unless it's intentional.

3) They look pretty cool flying in formation!

Or you're running a set of special abilities/stats that escalate in utility when employed en masse.

• A single Tactician B-wing is a potential annoyance, a certain 'dead zone' on the board you want to avoid. Four of them on the board at once means you're dancing through interlocking no-fly-zones with red dice everywhere, and if they manage to get multiple sweet spots on you in a single round, you're as good as toast.
• A single DeTractor (TIE/D Defender with Tractor Beam ) will let you have a little bit of control to go with your dakka, albeit at PS1 or 3. A trio of the things have enough arcs to threaten hurling enemy ships almost anywhere on the board, or have one hit, and reposition you into a firing arc you'd been clear of, so now you get shot at twice more. A single DefIoner ( ) against a low-agility large ship is something to be cautious of. Three of them mean you have to be very, very careful you don't end up perma-ioned while eating multiple rounds of primary fire.
• A crackshot or two in your squad can be valuable for helping punch through that early damage, or helping a crit sneak past that last shield point. A swarm of the things can spread out their fire patterns and hit as hard as an ATC TIE Advanced for that one shot where you really needed it to against an ace... or focus their fire and watch entire ships get chewed to bits in a single volley if they try to joust.
• A single torpboat would be an interesting filler, able to help spike damage early on. Three of them, with a little bit of fortunate arcs/dumb jousting by their opponent, have even odds of seeing a generic B-wing, Y-wing, or G-1A, Punisher or K-wing evaporate in the first round of shooting without firing a shot.

Notice that all these lists tend towards emphasinig something in particular - if you're going to frontload damage with an alpha strike, you do even better if you frontload enough to erase enemy ships entirely. If you want to throw mid-level control (which is to say, stressbot/conner nets are different) on the board, fielding it en masse turns it from 'an annoyance' to 'potential deathtrap'.

So with that said... statwise, 4Gs running Tactician are quite possibly objectively stronger than the 4Bs with Tactician (flown to considerable success by those crazy enough to run it) otherwise known as 'Panic Attack'. For the same cost per ship, you've the same firepower, same total health, an extra point of PS (pushing you out of Predator range) and a faster dial to boot. Your main limitation is no barrel rolls for range management, but you'll pick up a smidgen more durability with the Evade action instead. It'd be an interesting list to try, for sure.

Personally instead of 4G I've been running 3 with torkil.

Ruthless Freelancer - Fire Control System, Zuckuss crew

**** fine comments all of you! Food for thought...

Jojo's suggestion with 4xG1A with Feedback Array actually sounds a lot of fun. So how does this compare with 7 Z-95s with Feedback Arrays? I guess the 7 Z's might create a larger zap-area which is would be more difficult to avoid, but on the other hand a single G1A is harder for a couple of aces to one-shoot/snipe.

Reiver's Scum Panic Attack could also be fun, and compared with the Rebel version, trading one higher pilot skill+evade, versus the ability to barrel-roll.

And of course the rest of you are right, a varied list is usually a much better option than running a spam version of a single ship, but since the BBBBZ and variations of 4Bs had been run in the past, I just wanted to explore the 4G option, and learn something from the best X-wingers (=this community) as I might been missing the obvious.

Nah who I am kidding, I am just looking for an excuse to buy 3 more Mist Hunter expansions ;-D ;-D

(If just that scum stealth device had not been unique...)

What I don't get is why everyone always tries to fly as many of one ship type in a list to see if that ship is viable? When all the podcasts talk about the new ship, they state it's just like a B-wing and 4 B-wings is dead. You won't ever play 4 Misthunters and it's a dead ship. So....why fly more than one? It's almost like just one is not an option? I especially think Scum is a good list where you can mix and match all the variants to come up with really cool list combos. Throw in all the other stuff to make a good All Comers list.

Why do people feel compelled to always max out on the same ship type? It multiplies the ship strengths, but also it's weaknesses.

Maxing out on one ship probably happens for three reasons.

1) A little touch of OCD of which I'm guilty.

2) A bit easier to fly with all the same PS. No worries about bumping unless it's intentional.

3) They look pretty cool flying in formation!

Or you're running a set of special abilities/stats that escalate in utility when employed en masse.

• A single Tactician B-wing is a potential annoyance, a certain 'dead zone' on the board you want to avoid. Four of them on the board at once means you're dancing through interlocking no-fly-zones with red dice everywhere, and if they manage to get multiple sweet spots on you in a single round, you're as good as toast.
• A single DeTractor (TIE/D Defender with Tractor Beam ) will let you have a little bit of control to go with your dakka, albeit at PS1 or 3. A trio of the things have enough arcs to threaten hurling enemy ships almost anywhere on the board, or have one hit, and reposition you into a firing arc you'd been clear of, so now you get shot at twice more. A single DefIoner ( ) against a low-agility large ship is something to be cautious of. Three of them mean you have to be very, very careful you don't end up perma-ioned while eating multiple rounds of primary fire.
• A crackshot or two in your squad can be valuable for helping punch through that early damage, or helping a crit sneak past that last shield point. A swarm of the things can spread out their fire patterns and hit as hard as an ATC TIE Advanced for that one shot where you really needed it to against an ace... or focus their fire and watch entire ships get chewed to bits in a single volley if they try to joust.
• A single torpboat would be an interesting filler, able to help spike damage early on. Three of them, with a little bit of fortunate arcs/dumb jousting by their opponent, have even odds of seeing a generic B-wing, Y-wing, or G-1A, Punisher or K-wing evaporate in the first round of shooting without firing a shot.

Notice that all these lists tend towards emphasinig something in particular - if you're going to frontload damage with an alpha strike, you do even better if you frontload enough to erase enemy ships entirely. If you want to throw mid-level control (which is to say, stressbot/conner nets are different) on the board, fielding it en masse turns it from 'an annoyance' to 'potential deathtrap'.

Yes, but you are also magnifying the weakness of said ship. Take BBBB, for example. How many people play them now? I'm sure there are a number of lists where one or two B-wings would work, but BBBB is dead in the water.

Four Freelancers with Baffles. /Thread

Four Freelancers with Baffles. /Thread

Can't kill me if I've already killed myself by doing donuts in the starting area.

Four Freelancers with Baffles. /Thread

Can't kill me if I've already killed myself by doing donuts in the starting area.

One hit point for a white 3K? Seems fair to me.

Four Freelancers with Baffles. /Thread

Can't kill me if I've already killed myself by doing donuts in the starting area.

One hit point for a white 3K? Seems fair to me.

It's not bad, but I'd far prefer to have FCS.

Or with a G1A, usually nothing, I think they work best stripped right down, given how easily they die.

Red Maneuvre + Baffle + Evade = ?

Red Maneuvre + Baffle + Evade = ?

Slightly worse than not taking the baffle at all.