Took Instigator out for a spin yesterday.

It locked down some evil rebel bombers, but there were no Imp fighters nearby (mostly because my big-ass ISD overlapped them).

So, the Reb squadrons are engaged by the ghost squads, so can't move away.

Since ghost squadrons are not viable targets, they can shoot at Instigator (as per a mail from FFG).

That much was clear.

But can they shoot at other ships as well? Or just the Instigator?

There were two other ships in range that they could have shot at - another Raider and the ISD.

We went with "have to shoot Instigator", but we were not entirely sure.

What is your verdict?

I don't think the outcome would have been affected much if we got it wrong - the ISD would have lost some more hull and defense tokens before racing to safety and Instigator would have lived.

They are engaged by the Instigator title card, meaning they are engaged by the Raider, so I'd say you got it right, and that Instigator is the only viable target.

They are not engaged by the instigator title card, and they are also not engaged by the raider.

Title says:

"Enemy squadrons at distance 1 are treated as if they are engaged by 2 additional squadrons, even if they are not currently engaged."

Engagement:

I would say that if instigator is a valid target (as per FAQ) then any other ship at distance 1 would also be a valid target.

Yeah, they could attack any ship in range. They just can't move.

It's times like this I wish they would have used different text on the Instigator, as it creates way more questions than it probably should. The bombers can't move but otherwise can attack any ships within range 1 of them.

So to sum it up: we did it wrong!

So to sum it up: we did it wrong!

And I got it wrong.

Good to know how it should work regardless of my misunderstanding.

FFG has sent an email on this stating that you can attack the ship. Even if there is a heavy squadron that could be attacked.

It's times like this I wish they would have used different text on the Instigator, as it creates way more questions than it probably should.

Can you list those questions?

It's times like this I wish they would have used different text on the Instigator, as it creates way more questions than it probably should.

Can you list those questions?

It basically comes down to reading the rules about Engagement and understanding them well. The problem is that the full ramifications of Engagement are spelled out in the Rules Reference Guide, which is the most important Armada book that nobody bothers to read . From memory, we've had the following questions:

• Can Instigatored squadrons attack anything at all given there are no real squadrons engaging them but they're still engaged? (answer: yes, being engaged means you need to attack squadrons IF POSSIBLE and that's not possible)
• Can Instigatored squadrons attack any ship within range 1 or only Instigator? (answer: see above)
• What happens if squadrons are being engaged by both a Heavy squadron and the Instigator phantom squadrons? Can they attack Instigator or do they need to attack the heavy squadrons due to engagement forcing them to attack squadrons if possible? (answer: they can ignore the Heavy squadrons and attack Instigator, this one is the most contentious and you can really argue it either way but FFG came down with that answer)
• What happens if Instigator is within range 1 of an Intel ship? (answer: nothing, Instigator is not a squadron, it is a ship, and its fake squadrons don't exist on the table to be within the Intel bubble)

I... may be forgetting one, but that's basically it. If FFG had simply made Instigator read:

"While within range 1 of Instigator, enemy squadrons cannot move and count as being engaged by two enemy squadrons when they are attacked (for example, for purposes of the Swarm special rule)" then Instigator would work exactly how it works now with the exception of Tycho, but none of those questions would arise because the way it functions would be clearer. The minor debuff to Tycho would (in my opinion, anyways) be worth it for the clarity of use gained.

This came up in a game last night. I was playing instigator and I had two or three enemy squadrons locked down. I had no fighters nearby, but both the Instigator and an ISD II were within range of the enemy squadrons. I thought that the instigator would prevent the enemy squadrons from attacking my ISD as they are engaged by instigator. It seemed to me that any fighter engaged by instigator would have to attack instigator, just as any squadron engaged by a fighter has to attack that fighter. The faq for Instigator states that:

Instigator

"Squadrons can attack THIS ship if they are not engaged by an actual enemy squadron without heavy in the play area."

Emphasis added to THIS is mine. Since the faq specifically states "this ship" it sounds to me like the enemy squadrons can only attack instigator. It doesn't say this ship or any ship in range. Why would they specify "this ship" if the enemy squadrons can attack any ship in range? That's how we played it anyway. Is there an official email response that contradicts this? I would like to know because if Instigator cannot actually prevent engaged enemy squadrons from attacking my ships It does not do what I needed it to for the build I was running.

This came up in a game last night. I was playing instigator and I had two or three enemy squadrons locked down. I had no fighters nearby, but both the Instigator and an ISD II were within range of the enemy squadrons. I thought that the instigator would prevent the enemy squadrons from attacking my ISD as they are engaged by instigator. It seemed to me that any fighter engaged by instigator would have to attack instigator, just as any squadron engaged by a fighter has to attack that fighter. The faq for Instigator states that:

Instigator

"Squadrons can attack THIS ship if they are not engaged by an actual enemy squadron without heavy in the play area."

Emphasis added to THIS is mine. Since the faq specifically states "this ship" it sounds to me like the enemy squadrons can only attack instigator. It doesn't say this ship or any ship in range. Why would they specify "this ship" if the enemy squadrons can attack any ship in range? That's how we played it anyway. Is there an official email response that contradicts this? I would like to know because if Instigator cannot actually prevent engaged enemy squadrons from attacking my ships It does not do what I needed it to for the build I was running.

Its because Instigator doesn't actually engage . You just count as Engaged.

If you are capable of attacking Instigator, you are capable of attacking Any Ship, as its an All-Or-Nothing Restriction based on Engagement.

It would be different if Instigator was actually Engaging you.

But it is not.

RRG 6 Engagement:

When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged

squadron if possible rather than an enemy ship.

This is the only limit on attacking due to engagement. There are no squadrons for you to attack, so there is no limit on your ability to attack any ship.

(This is modified by the email on Heavy squadrons, but that's not relevant here specifically.)

If that is the ruling I'll accept it, but I still don't understand why the FAQ specifies that you may attack "this ship" instead of ships in range or any ship in range. This ship would seem to refer only to Instigator, as that is the card the faq is referencing. It's their wording I'm going off of. It seems to imply a special condition for this title that may alter general rules of engagement.

If that is the ruling I'll accept it, but I still don't understand why the FAQ specifies that you may attack "this ship" instead of ships in range or any ship in range. This ship would seem to refer only to Instigator, as that is the card the faq is referencing. It's their wording I'm going off of. It seems to imply a special condition for this title that may alter general rules of engagement.

Honestly?

Its because the Question was asked about Attacking Instigator.

Not asked about attacking other Ships.

That was the question they answered.

Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but wouldn't that actually mean this specific question hasn't been answered officially and is still open for debate? It's the whole "this ship" thing that gets me. Rules as written, so far, only says you may attack "this ship".

An example to illustrate my confusion at the faq wording:

Let's pretend I have two cupcakes on a plate. One has blue icing and one has red icing. I point to the red cupcake and say "you can have this one". You then proceed to take the blue cupcake. I am offended because blue is my favorite, so I never offer you a cupcake again. "This one" does not mean "any one you want."

Am I really the only one who reads it this way?

Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but wouldn't that actually mean this specific question hasn't been answered officially and is still open for debate? It's the whole "this ship" thing that gets me. Rules as written, so far, only says you may attack "this ship".

An example to illustrate my confusion at the faq wording:

Let's pretend I have two cupcakes on a plate. One has blue icing and one has red icing. I point to the red cupcake and say "you can have this one". You then proceed to take the blue cupcake. I am offended because blue is my favorite, so I never offer you a cupcake again. "This one" does not mean "any one you want."

Am I really the only one who reads it this way?

You're more than welcome to ask FFG on it.

In fact, I encourage you.

We've given the answers that we've otherwise come up with. There was an Email on it, but I can't find it, so, of course, it doesn't count until I do .

It's more akin to there being a standing household rule that you may not eat green cupcakes, and me asking "can I eat the red cupcake?" And you say "yes, you can eat the red cupcake," and then me eating the blue cupcake. The question and answer are unrelated to the action, but the action is permitted per the standing rules.

Thanks for the responses. Not trolling, I legitimately do not understand and will email FFG.

I'm mostly just bitter that they Still havn't answered a Question I sent them in November.

... And January...

... And April.

Here is the thread where the answer from FFG was posted.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/201276-heavy-screen-for-instigator-confirmed-false/

Thanks, but I read through that thread and unless I'm missing something I don't see how it answers my question. I'm not asking about fighters and heavy, I'm asking if fighters can choose to attack a ship other than the Instigator if they are engaged as per the Instigator title. My reading is that they cannot because the faq for Instigator specifies they can attack "this ship" but says nothing about attacking other ships in range.

Thanks, but I read through that thread and unless I'm missing something I don't see how it answers my question. I'm not asking about fighters and heavy, I'm asking if fighters can choose to attack a ship other than the Instigator if they are engaged as per the Instigator title. My reading is that they cannot because the faq for Instigator specifies they can attack "this ship" but says nothing about attacking other ships in range.

No, it doesn't mention it. But look at this explanation (directly quoted from the email):

The enemy squadron cannot attack the “imaginary” squadrons created by the Instigator (since it isn’t possible), and the Heavy keyword means the enemy squadron doesn’t have to attack those heavy squadrons. The Heavy keyword is intended to remove that Heavy squadron from the set of squadrons that must be attacked before the ship can be attacked.

The reasoning is that the restriction is given by Engagement . Essentially, if you have the Capability to shoot at A SHIP, then you have the capability to shoot at ALL SHIPS . NEVER are you restricted by which ship you can shoot, as a Squadron.... (Note, other effects such as Obstruction and such are dealt with after you choose a target...)

By denying a squadron the capability of shooting at its choice of Ships, you are adding an additional restriction beyond the rules that exist...

NOTE, that - if it were Squadrons, we're talking about Escort that does this...

To put it Bluntly:

The only way you can restrict what you can target, when you have a choice of targets in the same Group (Squadrons or Ships), is Escort .

NO SHIP HAS ESCORT.

There is no restriction inherent to the rules, and there is no Rule that states the Restriction is being imposed.

Thanks, but I read through that thread and unless I'm missing something I don't see how it answers my question. I'm not asking about fighters and heavy, I'm asking if fighters can choose to attack a ship other than the Instigator if they are engaged as per the Instigator title. My reading is that they cannot because the faq for Instigator specifies they can attack "this ship" but says nothing about attacking other ships in range.

If the squadron is in a state where it can shoot at Instigator, it can shoot at any ship within range.

I'm mostly just bitter that they Still havn't answered a Question I sent them in November.

... And January...

... And April.

That's because they're waiting on you to answer it rules guru muwahahahaha.