I'm excited for imperial vets to come out so I made this list in mind with it and wanted to get some feed back on it.

Rexler Brath (8)

Proton Rockets (3)

Tractor beam (1)

Rage (1)

TIE/D (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

Tomax Bren (8)

Crack Shot (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Guidance Chips (0)

Captain Jonus ps (6+1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Proton Torpedoes (4)
Adaptability (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

According to my local group there is a torpedo boat squad list that is gaining traction and is really popular (two jumpmaster5000 and a z-95). I made this list as an attempt for an imperial counter for it as well as a general list. I can already see that my list can be bested by swarm but I was wondering about other normal type of list.

The general tactics for this list are as follows:

Keep in a formation of range 1 of Jonus for the re-roll on secondary weps.

Against high agi ships attack first with rexler brath using tractor beam and then attack with tomax using crack shot (twice if needed*) to get more hits through and then clean up with jonus.

Against big ships attack first with tomax to punch through shields then rexler brath within range 1 of bigship and of Jonus, use rage, attack with 5 from the proton rocket with re-roll of 5 (3 from rage 2 from jonus) and either flip up damage with focus from rage or use focus for more damage. Once again clean up with jonus.

*I have a bit of a rules question. i made a post in the rules question section but since I am new I have to wait for approval before it shows. Could crack shot be used twice with tomax bren for the same attack since crack shot does not state it can only be used once per-round/attack and tomax bren's ability flips the card right back up right after being used? If it can crackshot is pretty much auto-include for Tomax, if not it is still nice.

First of all, your question: no. You can use crack shot once per attack. Tomax' ability means you don't discard it, so you can keep using it on all of his attacks, but its not *unlimited* dice cancelling. It can be used to cancel ONE evade die PER attack (otherwise, you could just cancel ALL evade dice all the time!).

As to your list, well, I think it has problems. If you are going to use Rage on Rexler, you really ought to take Yorr to relieve some of that stress. Otherwise, its really not going to work well on Rexler. You use it once, and then Rexler is actionless next turn (and predictable because he can only do straight moves to clear his stress). Proton Rockets are also a total waste on a ship with TIE/D. There is literally no reason not to always fire your cannon + primary weapon every time, so you will never fire proton rockets.

Personally, I would not put Rage on Rexler simply because the drawbacks are too high (double stressing your ship or at best, having Yorr required to babysit him----Rexler doesn't want a babysitter!)

If you did do it, I guess it could work something like this:

Rexler w/ rage, TIE/D, tractor & TIE mk 2 engines = 40

Yorr w/ electronic baffle & palpatine = 33

Omega Leader w/ juke & comm relay = 26

99

Tomax just doesn't fit in here, although you could take him instead of Omega Leader if you want to drop palpatine out of the list, but omega leader is probably better unless you are kitting Tomax out with a bunch of ordnance (in which case, you will want a different kind of list for that). If you want Tomax though, I don't think rexler fits in. Vessery w/ VI + tractor beam is a bit cheaper and would work better:

Tomax w/ crack shot, proton torpedo, extra munis & guidance chip = 31

Vessery w/ veteran instincts, TIE/D & tractor beam = 37

Black eight squad (punisher) w/ flechette torpedoes, homing missiles, extra munis & long-range scanner = 32

The punisher is there because he's a better ordnance platform than shuttle and with LRS can provide locks for Vessery with no trouble. He's also the least threatening, so he will often be your last ship that your opponent targets (and having a shuttle as your last ship alive is a losing proposition!).

First of all, your question: no. You can use crack shot once per attack. Tomax' ability means you don't discard it, so you can keep using it on all of his attacks, but its not *unlimited* dice cancelling. It can be used to cancel ONE evade die PER attack (otherwise, you could just cancel ALL evade dice all the time!).

As to your list, well, I think it has problems. If you are going to use Rage on Rexler, you really ought to take Yorr to relieve some of that stress. Otherwise, its really not going to work well on Rexler. You use it once, and then Rexler is actionless next turn (and predictable because he can only do straight moves to clear his stress). Proton Rockets are also a total waste on a ship with TIE/D. There is literally no reason not to always fire your cannon + primary weapon every time, so you will never fire proton rockets.

Personally, I would not put Rage on Rexler simply because the drawbacks are too high (double stressing your ship or at best, having Yorr required to babysit him----Rexler doesn't want a babysitter!)

If you did do it, I guess it could work something like this:

Rexler w/ rage, TIE/D, tractor & TIE mk 2 engines = 40

Yorr w/ electronic baffle & palpatine = 33

Omega Leader w/ juke & comm relay = 26

99

Tomax just doesn't fit in here, although you could take him instead of Omega Leader if you want to drop palpatine out of the list, but omega leader is probably better unless you are kitting Tomax out with a bunch of ordnance (in which case, you will want a different kind of list for that). If you want Tomax though, I don't think rexler fits in. Vessery w/ VI + tractor beam is a bit cheaper and would work better:

Tomax w/ crack shot, proton torpedo, extra munis & guidance chip = 31

Vessery w/ veteran instincts, TIE/D & tractor beam = 37

Black eight squad (punisher) w/ flechette torpedoes, homing missiles, extra munis & long-range scanner = 32

The punisher is there because he's a better ordnance platform than shuttle and with LRS can provide locks for Vessery with no trouble. He's also the least threatening, so he will often be your last ship that your opponent targets (and having a shuttle as your last ship alive is a losing proposition!).

Thanks for the question answer, I wasn't saying he could do it an unlimited amount of times just wondering if he could burn it to use it twice if needed, since he can only flip it once a round, but i was just wondering if he could use it twice since it didn't say how many times it can be used an attack or round just how many times you had to flip it.

I'm aiming for an alpha strike list that on average kills at least 1 ship large or small. The damage done from proton rockets with the re-rolls + focus is way more reliable than tractor+main gun even with the -1 agi from tractor, with everything else on the list that is an average of 9.99 damage after defense dice on 2 agi not counting loss of an extra shield from proton rockets (this kills the jumpmaster) using the cannon+main is roughly 7ish. Rage is nice for "i really need damage and to hit NOW" situation but I wouldn't use it every time I could with him because of the 2 stress. Stress on a tie-D doesn't kill it like a phantom and doesn't care as much about stress, while yes it would lose its action it has a very good dial, can still k-turn, and still fire its tractor+main. I see the tie-D as a ship that can stay a turn or two with stress because stress doesn't hurt it as much as other ships and can still do things while stressed. While yorr is a good/bad idea ( i agree with you on the he doesn't like a baby sitter point) I feel like I would lose to much upfront damage.

You said tomax doesn't fit in the list, did you mean jonus by chance since you made a list afterward with tomax in it?

If you did mean tomax why do you think he doesn't fit in? high ps, wonderful ability to blow a target's shields away, and with same ps as rexler gives flexibilty on fighting different list (high agi= let rexler shoot first with cannon+main, high toughness/low agi let Tomax fire to remove shields then finish off with rexler

I love the punisher, and it is a mostly better ordnance playform I feel it cost more than what its worth since it has no EPT. It is a more durable ship yes but not by much. The list I want to make is a high PS, high ordnance list for imperials, bombers as well as punishers won't last long in a long term game so thats why I went for as high a ps as I could with the best synergy to each other, Tomaxfor shield removal, rexler for explosive damage or mass amounts of crits, jonus for re-roll on secondary weps and clean up since he is only ps7. While they are only ps8 and 7 they won't beat out super aces like vader with VI and the like but for most the stuff in my local meta ps8 will get their shots off first a decent amount of the time if not at the same time as other list (namely the double jumpmaster list I talked about)

You have made a few points I will take into consideration, thank you for your response that 2nd list you posted looks neat and I'll have to try it out.

I think your math is a bit off. You do realize that if Brath stacks a TB token on someone, that token stays until the end of the round. That means Bren and Jonus get to unload on the de-buffed target. Prockets are just a bad idea on Defenders, especially with the title! You are paying 3 points for 1 extra die, once. Its just a bad bargain for the points. You are better off with another munition on one of the bombers or bring a bomb along.

Personally I'd go with:

Colonel Vessery (35)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Tractor Beam (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Seismic Charges (2)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Tomax Bren (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

You really don't need Jonus. Vessery will be accurate as long as the target is painted. The Gamma Vet is shooting Homing which he can spend the TL on. Tomax has Crackshot. Now this is an alpha strike that doesn't require a formation, or to be in range 1.

Thanks for the question answer, I wasn't saying he could do it an unlimited amount of times just wondering if he could burn it to use it twice if needed, since he can only flip it once a round, but i was just wondering if he could use it twice since it didn't say how many times it can be used an attack or round just how many times you had to flip it.

I'm aiming for an alpha strike list that on average kills at least 1 ship large or small. The damage done from proton rockets with the re-rolls + focus is way more reliable than tractor+main gun even with the -1 agi from tractor, with everything else on the list that is an average of 9.99 damage after defense dice on 2 agi not counting loss of an extra shield from proton rockets (this kills the jumpmaster) using the cannon+main is roughly 7ish. Rage is nice for "i really need damage and to hit NOW" situation but I wouldn't use it every time I could with him because of the 2 stress. Stress on a tie-D doesn't kill it like a phantom and doesn't care as much about stress, while yes it would lose its action it has a very good dial, can still k-turn, and still fire its tractor+main. I see the tie-D as a ship that can stay a turn or two with stress because stress doesn't hurt it as much as other ships and can still do things while stressed. While yorr is a good/bad idea ( i agree with you on the he doesn't like a baby sitter point) I feel like I would lose to much upfront damage.

You said tomax doesn't fit in the list, did you mean jonus by chance since you made a list afterward with tomax in it?

If you did mean tomax why do you think he doesn't fit in? high ps, wonderful ability to blow a target's shields away, and with same ps as rexler gives flexibilty on fighting different list (high agi= let rexler shoot first with cannon+main, high toughness/low agi let Tomax fire to remove shields then finish off with rexler

I love the punisher, and it is a mostly better ordnance playform I feel it cost more than what its worth since it has no EPT. It is a more durable ship yes but not by much. The list I want to make is a high PS, high ordnance list for imperials, bombers as well as punishers won't last long in a long term game so thats why I went for as high a ps as I could with the best synergy to each other, Tomaxfor shield removal, rexler for explosive damage or mass amounts of crits, jonus for re-roll on secondary weps and clean up since he is only ps7. While they are only ps8 and 7 they won't beat out super aces like vader with VI and the like but for most the stuff in my local meta ps8 will get their shots off first a decent amount of the time if not at the same time as other list (namely the double jumpmaster list I talked about)

You have made a few points I will take into consideration, thank you for your response that 2nd list you posted looks neat and I'll have to try it out.

I've flown defenders a lot, so I'm pretty familiar with their capabilities. Rage is a bad idea on Rexler simply because of the double stress. Using it once might allow one really strong turn of shooting, but 2 stress tokens is debilitating even on a defender. Another way to offset that a bit would be Epsilon Leader (or a ship with wingman). But double stress means at least 1 turn with no actions (realistically, probably more because it is so hard for the defender to shed stress----TIE mk 2 would be necessary to make it less crippling if you don't take Yorr). And spending 2+ turns with zero actions is just not a good deal for that one turn of good action economy...

What I meant by Tomax not fitting was when trying to use him in the same list as Rexler. The two are just too expensive to build a good list around them unless you go with support Tomax (TIE shuttle) or x-7 title on Rexler. Vessery w/ TIE/D is a little easier to squeeze in with Tomax since the points work out better.

I think your math is a bit off. You do realize that if Brath stacks a TB token on someone, that token stays until the end of the round. That means Bren and Jonus get to unload on the de-buffed target. Prockets are just a bad idea on Defenders, especially with the title! You are paying 3 points for 1 extra die, once. Its just a bad bargain for the points. You are better off with another munition on one of the bombers or bring a bomb along.

Personally I'd go with:

Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Tractor Beam (1)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Crack Shot (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Seismic Charges (2)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Tomax Bren (24)

Crack Shot (1)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Extra Munitions (2)

Thermal Detonators (3)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

You really don't need Jonus. Vessery will be accurate as long as the target is painted. The Gamma Vet is shooting Homing which he can spend the TL on. Tomax has Crackshot. Now this is an alpha strike that doesn't require a formation, or to be in range 1.

My math might be off I used http://xwingcalculator.x10host.com/diceuilm.htmlto calculate my probability. I used preadtor's 2nd effect of re-roll 2 dice as a replacement for jonus's re-roll since his isn't listed yet

A difference of 1.08 damage between the two I guess I was mistaken on how much of a difference and that was without rage re-roll for the 2nd test.

How about this?

Colonel Vessery (8)

Tractor beam (1)

Veteran Instincts (1)

TIE/D (0)

twin ion engine Mk. II (0)

Tomax Bren (8)

Crack Shot (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Guidance Chips (0)

Captain Jonus ps (8)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missles(5)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

Still gives me the high ps alpha strike I want, and a 2pt bid, granted haven't done the math for it yet but should be similar to the other results.

Still gives me the high ps alpha strike I want, and a 2pt bid, granted haven't done the math for it yet but should be similar to the other results.

I still don't think you need Jonus, but its not bad. I would take Long-range scanners on Jonus, however. You will want one ship with that to gaurantee a TL for Vessery, and you don't lose out on any damage because homing missiles with LRS have about the same damage output as guidance chips (since with LRS you have TL + focus, whereas with chips, you have TL + chip).

Still gives me the high ps alpha strike I want, and a 2pt bid, granted haven't done the math for it yet but should be similar to the other results.

I still don't think you need Jonus, but its not bad. I would take Long-range scanners on Jonus, however. You will want one ship with that to gaurantee a TL for Vessery, and you don't lose out on any damage because homing missiles with LRS have about the same damage output as guidance chips (since with LRS you have TL + focus, whereas with chips, you have TL + chip).

Hmmmm good call, for some reason I thought LRS could only lock on beyond range 3. According to the probability calculator target lock + focus gives 3.38 expected damage while target lock + guidence chip only gives 3.31 and i could then use the focus to defend if I don't need to use it.

LRS works on range 3+.

Also, Homing Missiles are 5 points, not 4.