So I made a list of gunships including a few Raiders with ACMs. Someone on another forum pointed out that, without objective help, I should keep my Raiders under 50 points because if I lose 1 (say, trading it for a more expensive ship which I often like to do), then I can't possibly have a 10-0 win in a tournament.

Thoughts on this? At what point is it worth kitting/dekitting your ships in the name of tournament points?

It's certainly worth being cognizant of, but 10-0's are pretty uncommon these days: I wouldn't hamstring yourself to shoot for one. You can also go for some of the victory-point objectives like Contested Outpost or Intel Sweep and still get the 10-0 even if you do trade up a ship.

The only time i really see someone get 10-0'd is when they are getting tabled and their opponent is wrecking the objective at the same time.

If I table my opponents fleet and only lose my squadrons while scoring 120 VPs from contested outpost I will win 10-0 despite losing 1/3 of my list in battle.

In the objectives that don't give out tokens or VPs it is rare to see a 10-0. I know i usually lose too many squadrons so the best I can do is a 9-1 which is still good.

I agree with Ardaedhel. I think that the more you build your list to shoot for a 10-0, the less flexible you are. I try to build my lists to be capable of handling most types of builds, such as swarms and squadron heavy and all in between. That said, picking objectives that net you points is great either way. Most Wanted (which almost never gets picked for me) is a great one for a list with Raiders in it. I would simply build your ships to have upgrades that it needs in order to do its job effectively.

So if we are talking about winning a large tournament:

• At this stage of the game, I think it is exceptionally unlikely that someone can go 10-0 all the way through. Even a really good counter-meta list is probably not going to let that happen, and if you hit Rieekan even once in the hands of a competent to very competent player, your odds of a 10-0 in that matchup are essentially nil. The players are too good, and the meta is now developed enough that unlike wave 1 (where very niche strategies were legitimately very possible), you probably hit someone who is at least a semi-counter list to you.
• As stated, for most 10-0 wins (the exception being Fleet Ambush in the right circumstances), the swing is usually on objective points, not just ships destroyed.
• In a tournament, you need to assume you will be playing other good players. If you deliberately handicap your fleet to avoid some points threshold, the loss of effectiveness for a ship can be enough that you won't win the game, which is of course goal #1. You don't want to be on the zero end of the 10-0 either.

With that said, the counterbalance is this: never put an upgrade on a ship that doesn't materially help the ship. You should always strive to use your points effectively, so if you can run a raider at 44 or 48 points and feel like it does the best it can for the points, great! However, don't hesitate to go to 52 (the level at which I typically run my lone raider) just because of points. If those four points matter, spend them.

Some of the large tournaments play 3 rounds and then have a cut for the last 4 or last 8 players. 10-0 wins are nice but consistent 8-2 or 9-1 should make the finals.

In medium sized events the Swiss system means winners float to the top and then play the guy who is their nearest rival. The results of that game are probably more important than getting a 10-0 on your way up to the top.

I've entered several events and won two of them (nothing fancy, a 12 and a 6 player OP) and I have still never had a 10-0 win.

Raiders are only effective against squadrons under 50pts, Raider I + Ordnance Experts, I guess you could run them APT, with no OE, and Screed, but I wouldn't like to do it, he can only affect one attack, so it makes double arc firing a crap shoot, and you have to remember these things get one round to do their stuff, then they either fly to safety(outside black dice range) or they get blown up.

So to echo the previous replies, do not hamstring your build aiming for a 10-0, work on getting 8-2, or 9-1 it is much more realistic, even with objectives, unless you are playing either A : a complete and utter novice, or B : someone who makes one or more major mistakes, your going to have to work for that 8-2 or 9-1 and that means playing a dangerous game, for an Imperial using 4-5 ships means being super aggressive with them, which in turn means risking them, but when it works it is a beautiful thing.

I usually run OE+APT/ACM on a Raider, or a more aggressive load out, OE+ExL+IntelOff, but that is for a pure fast ship build fleet, when I need things to punch way above their expected weight, that being said, after playing it several times I am leaning on ACM over the ExpL, sure 2 dice from the front extra is nice, but 4 extra damage from a double arc, is much easier to get than a double hit/crit on them 2 dice.

So if we are talking about winning a large tournament:

• At this stage of the game, I think it is exceptionally unlikely that someone can go 10-0 all the way through. Even a really good counter-meta list is probably not going to let that happen, and if you hit Rieekan even once in the hands of a competent to very competent player, your odds of a 10-0 in that matchup are essentially nil. The players are too good, and the meta is now developed enough that unlike wave 1 (where very niche strategies were legitimately very possible), you probably hit someone who is at least a semi-counter list to you.
• As stated, for most 10-0 wins (the exception being Fleet Ambush in the right circumstances), the swing is usually on objective points, not just ships destroyed.
• In a tournament, you need to assume you will be playing other good players. If you deliberately handicap your fleet to avoid some points threshold, the loss of effectiveness for a ship can be enough that you won't win the game, which is of course goal #1. You don't want to be on the zero end of the 10-0 either.

With that said, the counterbalance is this: never put an upgrade on a ship that doesn't materially help the ship. You should always strive to use your points effectively, so if you can run a raider at 44 or 48 points and feel like it does the best it can for the points, great! However, don't hesitate to go to 52 (the level at which I typically run my lone raider) just because of points. If those four points matter, spend them.

Yeah man, just 9-1 every game.

More valuable, probably, is just being familiar with how your ships' values relate to the point thresholds. By this I mean, know how many and which ships you can afford to lose before 9-1 is out of reach, 8-2, etc. It can help you make prioritization decisions during your games.

If I know that I have to keep my admiral alive to have a shot at 9-1, but that losing any three ships will drop me down to 8-2 range, maybe I won't be as reticent about sending in my admiral's ship if I've already lost two, since losing him will hurt me no more or less than any other ship. Or if I know that it makes no difference scoring-wise whether I lose a VSD or a Raider, I might put the VSD in a spot that will get it killed eventually, but will protect the rest of the fleet to get them all more shots.

Clonisher's Raiders have Expanded Launchers. Right? Definitely over 50.

Clonisher's Raiders have Expanded Launchers. Right? Definitely over 50.

To the subject at hand, I find what works best for me is simply flying to beat my opponent. We had a saying when I played football back when I was younger and faster and had inccurred less brain damage that you don't intercept the good pass, you intercept the bad one. If you play to beat your opponent, and the breaks go your way, the MoV comes with it. If you play too hard for points and lose sight of certain tactical realities, the MoV will still come, it'll just be there for your opponent.

Don't get me wrong, there are games where you can game the system a bit and win on objective points, but those rarely, in my admittedly anecdotal experience, are never 10-0's so much as relatively evenly matched fleets trying to find a way too eek out a win.