First off I think Leia needs an Errata to allow all red maneuvers to be treated as white, not JUST red maneuvers that you reveal. But anyhow on to my actual question -

So You've got Hera in the Ghost. You pop Leia at the beginning of the turn. You reveal a hard red 1-turn. (Which is red). Which moves can you rotate your dial to?

Possible answers :

1) None. If you elect to use Leia the move is treated as white so you can't move it to another white.

2) Any RED : you REVEALED a red maneuver, so you've met the criteria, even though you treat it as white... but you treat it as white AFTER revealing it, so you can still rotate to any maneuver.

3) Any WHITE : You reveal a Red...CHECK. Hera's first part kicks in (When you reveal a green or red maneuver...). Leia kicks in - treat it as white... CHECK. Hera's second part : Rotate to any other move of SAME difficulty - So if my hard 1 turn (red) is now being treated as a WHITE - can I move to any move with same difficulty (White)?

3 might be a stretch but what to you guys think? And if 3 did work, would that be an awesome way for Leia to see more play?

I would argue it is now a white maneuver. Her card reads the same as the R2 astromech. Going by the latest FAQ rulings centered around the R2, Hera would not be able to use her ability on a red maneuver after Leia changes it to a white.

Now granted Hera has the option. Leia's ability simply allows your ships the choice. Hera could easily opt NOT to treat the maneuver as white and disregard the entire mechanic.

But either way, flipping the dial over triggers both events. It is my understanding that when you have multiple abilities from the same trigger, you get to choose which order you do them in. However this is confusing me more, the more I think about it.

If I trigger Hera's ability first - and fully resolve it.... .lets say I reveal a red hard 1 turn, and rotate it to a 5 K-Turn.... THEN reveal Leia - when the 5K turn is NOT what I revealed, so the TIME for Leia's ability has passed.

If I trigger Leia's fully first well then it becomes white and now the opportunity for Hera's has passed.

If they BOTH trigger, then I think I can do any white maneuver. (and I don't think this would be "broken", as it's a 4 point upgrade that is a once-per game ability).

You are right, you can choose the order in which they resolve. However, Hera must use Leia once she has reveled her dial. Otherwise, it is not a "revealed" maneuver.

They don't have the same trigger though. Leia is at the start of the Activation Phase; Hera is when you reveal your dial. So in my mind, Leia would go first, giving you the option to change a Red to a White, then Hera would let you change it to any other White then be stuck with the white (but hey... a white 5K? Yes please!) The opportunity to activate Leia after you've revealed Hera's dial isn't following the card direction, so it's not possible.

Leia: At the start of the Activation phase, you may discard this card to allow all friendly ships that reveal a red maneuver to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of the phase.

Hera: When you reveal a green or red maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver of the same difficulty.

They don't have the same trigger though. Leia is at the start of the Activation Phase; Hera is when you reveal your dial. So in my mind, Leia would go first, giving you the option to change a Red to a White, then Hera would let you change it to any other White.

Hera can't change white maneuvers. Hera would have to choose between Leia's ability or her own that round. She could not use both.

Very interesting question, and no pressure to get a fast ruling on this, since it's so obscure.

They don't have the same trigger though. Leia is at the start of the Activation Phase; Hera is when you reveal your dial. So in my mind, Leia would go first, giving you the option to change a Red to a White, then Hera would let you change it to any other White.

Hera can't change white maneuvers. Hera would have to choose between Leia's ability or her own that round. She could not use both.

D'oh. More caffiene. Lemme adjust.

D'oh. More caffiene. Lemme adjust.

Understood as this is me in the morning before my coffee...

_{They don't have the same trigger though. Leia is at the start of the Activation Phase; Hera is when you reveal your dial. So in my mind, Leia would go first, giving you the option to change a Red to a White, then Hera would let you change it to any other White then be stuck with the white (but hey... a white 5K? Yes please!) The opportunity to activate Leia after you've revealed Hera's dial isn't following the card direction, so it's not possible.}

_{Leia: At the start of the Activation phase, you may discard this card to allow all friendly ships that reveal a red maneuver to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of the phase.}

_{Hera: When you reveal a green or red maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver of the same difficulty.}

Good points here... but Hera still has the OPTION to ignore Leia's ability, or to use it, due to Leia's "allow". This is important because there is a certain point where Hera must choose to use Leia's ability or not. Exactly WHEN she chooses would be the deciding factor here.

I think if Hera is allowed to choose immediately AFTER she reveals the dial, then she'd get to change it to any WHITE maneuver.

Hera reveals RED maneuever - trigger Hera's ability "When you reveal a green or red maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver of the same difficulty." SAME is the keyword here. You revealed a red, so met the criteria to trigger Hera... but then the difficulty got changed to white, which would allow another white move because it's the SAME difficulty.

What you COULDN'T do at that point, is rotate to another RED maneuver outside of your originally revealed maneuver, as the only red that's treated as white was the one you revealed.

Leia's "effect" says "When they reveal....
Hera is also a When you reveal.

In this manner, the trigger for each (Trigger Leia's effect / Trigger Hera's effect) is happening at the same time right?

When two triggers happen at the same time, the player decides which to activate first right?

If you choose to trigger Leia then Hera, you have a problem, as now your maneuver is white (Given fettigator precedent that your revealed maneuver is whatever you've done to alter it)

If you trigger Hera first then Leia - you're fine.


If you want a mess - Try Stay on Target + Hera + Leia in the shuttle!

It doesn't work that way.

Leia: At the start of the Activation phase, you may discard this card to allow all friendly ships that reveal a red maneuver to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of the phase.

Leia's ability occurs BEFORE any friendly ship's dial is revealed. Basically, it says any red maneuver revealed is really a white maneuver for that turn.

Hera: When you reveal a green or red maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver of the same difficulty.

Hera's ability triggers after and only if she ignores Leia's ability on that turn (i.e. allows to treat red maneuver as a white maneuver).

Well, leia's ability triggers at the start of the activation phase - but the effect has the word allow, which is permissive - her effect has a timing, which is on the reveal - the same time as hera's effect. We already know from fettigator - that the revealed maneuver can be altered, and still count as the revealed maneuver.

I'll rule it that way till we get an FAQ update

You have to discard Leia's card before the "reveal" stage in order for the effect to take place. Leia's ability is in play before the FIRST dial is revealed. Hera's ability activates after she reveals HER dial.

Hera has the choice to reveal her red/green maneuver as red/green or white. If she chooses white, then her ability won't trigger.

You have to discard Leia's card before the "reveal" stage in order for the effect to take place. Leia's ability is in play before the FIRST dial is revealed. Hera's ability activates after she reveals HER dial.

Hera has the choice to reveal her red/green maneuver as red/green or white. If she chooses white, then her ability won't trigger.

Yes, you choose to enable Leia or not during the turn, but her ability does not trigger in the activation phase, just the decision as to whether she is available or not.

It's that "to allow" and 'reveal a maneuver' that is the key part:

Leia: At the start of the Activation phase, you may discard this card to allow all friendly ships that reveal a red maneuver to treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of the phase.

...IE., Leia allows ships that reveal a red maneuver to choose to treat it as white or not. They don't HAVE to...although usually once you've chosen to discard Leia, you are probably doing so because you want to have your ships treating red maneuvers as white maneuvers - but maybe you've got an odd ship out that you don't want to. The point is that discarding Leia doesn't lock you into that decision and immediately turn all reds on your still-hidden dials into whites. It just means you are immediately one crew upgrade down and now have the option, each time you reveal a red for the rest of that turn, of treating it as a white.

...IE., Leia allows ships that reveal a red maneuver to choose to treat it as white or not. They don't HAVE to...although usually once you've chosen to discard Leia, you are probably doing so because you want to have your ships treating red maneuvers as white maneuvers - but maybe you've got an odd ship out that you don't want to. The point is that discarding Leia doesn't lock you into that decision and immediately turn all reds on your still-hidden dials into whites. It just means you are immediately one crew upgrade down and now have the option, each time you reveal a red for the rest of that turn, of treating it as a white.

Right.

Maybe you've got Ibtisam doing a red and you want her stressed for rerolls. Maybe you've got a ship with that crit that doesn't want to do white maneuvers. Heck maybe you've got Nien Numb on a B-Wing and you don't want the confusion of altering your 4-forward to white, because you'd rather use Nien to alter it to green, and you don't want to get into a rules argument over which change takes precedence.

Leia's "Allow" word implies choice, and if you choose that immediately AFTER you reveal a red on Hera, you'll both trigger Hera's ability AND be able to change the move to any white.