Here's my take on the mindlink build: it's powerful if you're perfect. In an ideal game, you can mitigate any penalties while maximizing all bonuses. The problem is that, as soon as you make a mistake, you'll be screwed. Free actions are great for one point; but if mess up, it'll cost you badly. No margin for error.

That's actually one of the things I really like about it. Using it is going to make you think very carefully when setting your dials and deciding on activation sequences and actions taken. This can only be a good thing when it comes to improving your understanding of the game and cutting out mistakes in general.

It's going to be a useful tool in developing your all-round game. The more you come to think about the game, the closer the attention you pay, the better you're going to get.

Here's my take on the mindlink build: it's powerful if you're perfect. In an ideal game, you can mitigate any penalties while maximizing all bonuses. The problem is that, as soon as you make a mistake, you'll be screwed. Free actions are great for one point; but if mess up, it'll cost you badly. No margin for error.

That's actually one of the things I really like about it. Using it is going to make you think very carefully when setting your dials and deciding on activation sequences and actions taken. This can only be a good thing when it comes to improving your understanding of the game and cutting out mistakes in general.

It's going to be a useful tool in developing your all-round game. The more you come to think about the game, the closer the attention you pay, the better you're going to get.

It's not just about getting better at the game either. This list should reward you immensely for the little bit of extra thought it takes to play.

Brobots aren't turrets, and they don't have green hard 2 turns so the immediate reaction from many forum goers has been to say how much brobots hate stress and to be scared of the stresshog when I almost never see it in my area.

All one has to do is fly it in such a way that they both don't need to sloop/koigron on the same turn. Once you get that down, all you have to do is not make easily avoided bone headed moves like flying over a debris with one Brobot before the other is about to sloop.

This seems like a novel and fun list type. I tend to agree with the post above that the stress is manageable but does require skilled player. Switching off which IG does red moves seems simple enough and except with enemy input you don't double stress. Even if one IG pulls of stress, you benefit from the free focus (just doesn't get additional economy).

I will have to try it. A list I was considering is this:

List name ~ Broken CD

Aggressor: · IG-88C (36)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Autoblaster (5)

Tractor Beam (1)

Ion Bombs (2)

Accuracy Corrector (3)

Ion Projector (2)

IG-2000 (0)

Aggressor: · IG-88D (36)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Autoblaster (5)

Tractor Beam (1)

Ion Bombs (2)

Accuracy Corrector (3)

Ion Projector (2)

IG-2000 (0)

-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --

Actions are for defense and repositioning. There are control aspects to help pin an enemy down. It may not be as good as Chopper or palp ion decimator at eternal blocking but it has merit.

Lots of tricks and fun aspects.

I have used mind link on 2 IGs with advanced sensors. It works extremely well because in most cases, the IG that will be in the most danger will end up with a focus and evade token while the other one will also have a focus. Quite frankly, if you are used to the shenanigans that an advanced sensor IG can do, then adding a mind link does not make it that much harder to control, but boosts their survivability by a lot.

One thing I would worry a little about is the obvious - once one IG is dead the other's EPT is useless. But I suppose it's no worse than a disposable skill.

One thing I would worry a little about is the obvious - once one IG is dead the other's EPT is useless. But I suppose it's no worse than a disposable skill.

Yes. Here is an actual weakness of the build. IG88s are strong while both are alive and get much easier to beat once one dies. Mindlink doubles down on this a bit and seems to me the one 'legitimate' strike against the idea. On the other hand, it does make dual IG88s quite hard to kill so long as both are alive....

Something I've just realized, which makes Attani Mindlink suck even more: let's say you have 2 ships with Mindlink you have set the first one to execute a white maneuver near a debris cloud and the other to do a red maneuver. If the enemy blocks your first ship so that it lands on the debris cloud, your second ship is now doing an illegal maneuver (red while stressed) so the opponent gets to choose it's maneuver now.

Seriously??? Frankly, if that happens, then the blame is on you. Only an idiot would allow that to happen. I mean, your ships have the SAME PILOT SKILL! You reveal the red move first (duh!) so its a non-issue.

But I don't mind ignorance like this---the less people who understand how to use mindlink well the better! Its certainly not going to be a FOTM card...

So I flew this today.

I did a lot of Slooping with one and focusing with the other. Not much boosting, thinking of switching to D.

The Feedback Array variant is nice anti-Soontir. Tractor Beam and Inertial Dampeners on both is better if you don't face Soontir though. Thinking Inertial Dampeners to deny triple U-Boat the range 2-3 joust so you can just blast into range 1.

Tractor Beam is nice because if you miss with a Primary at range 1 you can go for a TB shot to help the other brobot.

But yeah, it works pretty well. For straight damage you can just TL with one, and then mindlink focus with the other. It takes a little bit of thought to use, a tad bit more than other Brobot builds but the action economy is great. Sloop one, green with the other and now both have Focus tokens.

Mindlink looks great on paper but it is so massively limiting because of the stress transfer. I tried a multiple M3As with mindlink and it just was horrible. One got a stress from Chopper and it just crippled everyone.

I don't see that this Brobot list is better than doing Advanced Sensors and PTL. Doing a green, can focus/evade or focus/TL. Doing a sloop, can focus beforehand. And you don't get caught in a situation where you can't give both brobots a red maneuver.

That said, one IG-88 and Manaroo both with mindlink definitely does work. IG-88 takes an evade, manaroo takes two focuses with RecSpec, transfers both to IG-88 and gets one in return. So Manaroo has 1 focus and IG-88 has an evade and two focuses. That's a hell of a defence to get through with IG-88 and although manaroo doesn't have deadeye, still a decent torpedo boat or take punishing one.

Mindlink looks great on paper but it is so massively limiting because of the stress transfer. I tried a multiple M3As with mindlink and it just was horrible. One got a stress from Chopper and it just crippled everyone.

I don't see that this Brobot list is better than doing Advanced Sensors and PTL. Doing a green, can focus/evade or focus/TL. Doing a sloop, can focus beforehand. And you don't get caught in a situation where you can't give both brobots a red maneuver.

That said, one IG-88 and Manaroo both with mindlink definitely does work. IG-88 takes an evade, manaroo takes two focuses with RecSpec, transfers both to IG-88 and gets one in return. So Manaroo has 1 focus and IG-88 has an evade and two focuses. That's a hell of a defence to get through with IG-88 and although manaroo doesn't have deadeye, still a decent torpedo boat or take punishing one.

2.) With FCS and Mindlink you save 6 points (!) AND you have better action economy. As I'm doing these Mindlink focus shenanigans I'm also benefitting from FCS. So it's almost like I have Advanced Sensors and FCS at the same time.

3.) Brobots being limited by stress? How about not having to rely on PtL for action economy?

I feel that I've repeated myself too much in this thread. How many more people are going to come into this thread and dismiss Mindlink on Brobots because they think that it's limited by stress even though it's in reality a counter stress card?

I feel like how I did when I brought up Rage Youngster and 7 Academies in a conversation at an SC once. "Yeah, but you get 2 stress"

*opens mouth and raises index finger, hesitates to say anything*

You know what, continue thinking that way lol.

I've tried it. Doesn't work that well. You're only really getting one extra focus out of the deal, at the expense of never being able to Kturn or Sloop both at once not to mention vulnerability to stress loading lists and general issues with loading stress. That's a pretty major downside for ... one extra focus token. Not to mention it's dead weight once one of them dies. Compared with Predator or PTL, boring but give you very reliable action economy on both of the brobots.

If it works for you, great. I like the manaroo build, it allows for an IG88 with an evade and two focuses plus FCS. Manaroo is rarely going to feedback stress to IG88 and can easily shrug off stress coming the other way. Two brobots though? Going to stick to AS and Predator/Lone Wolf.

I've tried it. Doesn't work that well. You're only really getting one extra focus out of the deal, at the expense of never being able to Kturn or Sloop both at once not to mention vulnerability to stress loading lists and general issues with loading stress. That's a pretty major downside for ... one extra focus token. Not to mention it's dead weight once one of them dies. Compared with Predator or PTL, boring but give you very reliable action economy on both of the brobots.

If it works for you, great. I like the manaroo build, it allows for an IG88 with an evade and two focuses plus FCS. Manaroo is rarely going to feedback stress to IG88 and can easily shrug off stress coming the other way. Two brobots though? Going to stick to AS and Predator/Lone Wolf.

I'm only getting one free focus out of Mindlink, but you're only flying 2 ships to begin with lol. That's actually quite significant.

For the 15th time, you're not vulnerable to stress lists. Even if it was it's irrelevant because it's not a thing in my area.

It's dead weight when one dies but they both last longer since they're generally both focused. Keep thinking that way, HLC is a better use of 7 points than Homing Missiles, Extra Munitions, and Guidance Chips because HLC lasts forever, right? Crackshot and Glitterstim only triggers once right? A Hound's Tooth without the Nashtah Pup is dead weight when it dies, 6 points for a Z is a steal.

Dual PtL Brobots don't have Feedback Arrays. They don't get that magic action economy when they sloop.

I don't mean to be condescending, when wave 5 came out a friend had Engine Upgrade on a Decimator so I said, "Yeah, but it's a turret and you'll always have shots, you should spend those points on gunner instead" and then when he relentlessly boosted out of arcs I suddenly understood.

Fly them such that they don't have to sloop simultaneously. This is easier to do if you stagger them. You can keep one perpetually stressed and use the other to feed it focuses also.

Assuming a pair of IGs with advanced sensors, here is the difference between flying :

Classical elite pilot skill: you want to strike both at the same time from angles where both could k-turn or s-loop the following turn if needed (and hopefully you won't).

Mindlink: You want to position 1 at range 3 where he will preferably not get blocked the following turn and one at a range where he can k-turn or s-loop. Not being blocked is easier with the IGs PS 6 rating against aces. The following turn, using advance sensors, you encounter the following scenario:

- Best case #1, far away IG is the target: k-turning IG advance sensor focuses and does his k-turn. The other clears the stress and uses evade (2 tokens for defense).

- Best case #2, k-turning IG is the target: k-turning IG does an advanced sensor evade (or boost if IG-88C is involved). The other clears the stress and uses focus (2 tokens for defense).

- Medium case, enemy is in a position to block your far away IG: far away IG advance sensors evade and bumps. k-turning IG does an advanced sensor focus. Same amount of tokens but got an extra stress out of it.

If either best case #1 or #2 happens, the stressless IG can do an advanced sensor focus/evade the following round and s-loop/k-turn (the stress won't affect the other IG since he's already stressed) and the other IG can clear it.

Like I said, many shenanigans, but to an experienced IG pilot, this becomes second nature pretty quickly, as is predicting enemy moves and putting that big base to good use to block enemy aces. So yeah, mindlink is pretty useful once you get the hang of it.

Assuming a pair of IGs with advanced sensors, here is the difference between flying :

Classical elite pilot skill: you want to strike both at the same time from angles where both could k-turn or s-loop the following turn if needed (and hopefully you won't).

Mindlink: You want to position 1 at range 3 where he will preferably not get blocked the following turn and one at a range where he can k-turn or s-loop. Not being blocked is easier with the IGs PS 6 rating against aces. The following turn, using advance sensors, you encounter the following scenario:

- Best case #1, far away IG is the target: k-turning IG advance sensor focuses and does his k-turn. The other clears the stress and uses evade (2 tokens for defense).

- Best case #2, k-turning IG is the target: k-turning IG does an advanced sensor evade (or boost if IG-88C is involved). The other clears the stress and uses focus (2 tokens for defense).

- Medium case, enemy is in a position to block your far away IG: far away IG advance sensors evade and bumps. k-turning IG does an advanced sensor focus. Same amount of tokens but got an extra stress out of it.

If either best case #1 or #2 happens, the stressless IG can do an advanced sensor focus/evade the following round and s-loop/k-turn (the stress won't affect the other IG since he's already stressed) and the other IG can clear it.

Like I said, many shenanigans, but to an experienced IG pilot, this becomes second nature pretty quickly, as is predicting enemy moves and putting that big base to good use to block enemy aces. So yeah, mindlink is pretty useful once you get the hang of it.

Advanced Sensors would be nice, and sometimes I would keep one stressed and plan on the other handing it a focus only for that one to be blocked, but Mindlink already gives you sort of an Advanced Sensors effect and they both get FCS.

The IG-88B Cannon Gunner effect combined with FCS is way too good to drop especially now that Mindlink is giving you an Advanced Sensors like effect, which is in some ways better because a stressed IG that bumps normally wouldn't be getting an action even with Advanced Sensors. But with Mindlink it can be handed a focus from the other one.

Assuming a pair of IGs with advanced sensors, here is the difference between flying :

Classical elite pilot skill: you want to strike both at the same time from angles where both could k-turn or s-loop the following turn if needed (and hopefully you won't).

Mindlink: You want to position 1 at range 3 where he will preferably not get blocked the following turn and one at a range where he can k-turn or s-loop. Not being blocked is easier with the IGs PS 6 rating against aces. The following turn, using advance sensors, you encounter the following scenario:

- Best case #1, far away IG is the target: k-turning IG advance sensor focuses and does his k-turn. The other clears the stress and uses evade (2 tokens for defense).

- Best case #2, k-turning IG is the target: k-turning IG does an advanced sensor evade (or boost if IG-88C is involved). The other clears the stress and uses focus (2 tokens for defense).

- Medium case, enemy is in a position to block your far away IG: far away IG advance sensors evade and bumps. k-turning IG does an advanced sensor focus. Same amount of tokens but got an extra stress out of it.

If either best case #1 or #2 happens, the stressless IG can do an advanced sensor focus/evade the following round and s-loop/k-turn (the stress won't affect the other IG since he's already stressed) and the other IG can clear it.

Like I said, many shenanigans, but to an experienced IG pilot, this becomes second nature pretty quickly, as is predicting enemy moves and putting that big base to good use to block enemy aces. So yeah, mindlink is pretty useful once you get the hang of it.

Advanced Sensors would be nice, and sometimes I would keep one stressed and plan on the other handing it a focus only for that one to be blocked, but Mindlink already gives you sort of an Advanced Sensors effect and they both get FCS.

The IG-88B Cannon Gunner effect combined with FCS is way too good to drop especially now that Mindlink is giving you an Advanced Sensors like effect, which is in some ways better because a stressed IG that bumps normally wouldn't be getting an action even with Advanced Sensors. But with Mindlink it can be handed a focus from the other one.

With HLC, I can see the appeal. My IGs are configured for control, so I don't care about hitting hard; I just need to hit once

Thought this was a ridiculous idea. What? Stress that can feed to both?!?!

But I had to try it. Only one test so far, but it felt really REALLY useful. How many times I've tried to run away with a damaged ship, boosted for that evade, only to roll all focuses on defense. Or I've run the winged bird away, to basically have him be useless for awhile. Now he's not useless at all. His defense is improved due to receiving a free focus, or he's flying around unmolested and handing off free tokens to the other ship.

I didn't find the stress to be "limiting", as much as just "different". It required some very specific thinking about who does what when. The payoff is really felt when you can just feedback Jax/Fel off the board. It's that bit that might be what elevates this over Glitter-crack bots. It's not going to alpha-strike the stressbot off before it can fire once, but that was never guaranteed anyway. Only takes one blank rerolling into another blank for that plan to go awry. With this build, that stressed bot can keep those stress, make white moves, and still have a focus to spend.

I'm definitely going to experiment a little more with it. While I think OP likes to occasionally fling mud at the wall for its own sake, this bit just might stick.

Advanced Sensors would be nice, and sometimes I would keep one stressed and plan on the other handing it a focus only for that one to be blocked, but Mindlink already gives you sort of an Advanced Sensors effect and they both get FCS.

The IG-88B Cannon Gunner effect combined with FCS is way too good to drop especially now that Mindlink is giving you an Advanced Sensors like effect, which is in some ways better because a stressed IG that bumps normally wouldn't be getting an action even with Advanced Sensors. But with Mindlink it can be handed a focus from the other one.

FCS gives you more offense, obviously, but advanced sensors gives you more durability and unpredictability. For me, those are more important, especially considering Mindlink is dependent on keeping both ships alive (and advanced sensors is so much better there than FCS). There's no question that B & C are the IGs of choice for this list. But FCS does have one big advantage: being able to fit feedback array on both ships. That is a definite plus since aces are your hardest matchup. I think I'll have to try it both ways, but the only problem with advanced sensors is what to do with the last 2 points (1 feedback array? a bomb? the choices don't feel as satisfying, for sure).

I'm only getting one free focus out of Mindlink, but you're only flying 2 ships to begin with lol. That's actually quite significant.

PTL or Predator gives the advantage to BOTH of them. By those standards that's twice as significant!

For the 15th time, you're not vulnerable to stress lists. Even if it was it's irrelevant because it's not a thing in my area.

Firstly, you clearly are more vulnerable to stress lists than brobots without mindlink. This is surely not up for debate? A tactician can stress both ships. That is worse for the brobots than only one ship being stressed. If you do not agree on this I feel there is no discussion to be had here.

Secondly, why does your meta make it irrelevant to me? In the last week I've played either online and in person against triple K-wing TLT/tactician (at a tournament no less, yuck!), chopper, a ship with rebel captive and another with mara jade and two lists with stresshogs. Stress loading lists are out there. If you don't play against them, then maybe stress-vulnerable lists will work for you, sure, but that doesn't make them objectively good, anymore than pretending that swarm lists or palp aces or whatever doesn't exist.

It's dead weight when one dies but they both last longer since they're generally both focused. Keep thinking that way, HLC is a better use of 7 points than Homing Missiles, Extra Munitions, and Guidance Chips because HLC lasts forever, right? Crackshot and Glitterstim only triggers once right? A Hound's Tooth without the Nashtah Pup is dead weight when it dies, 6 points for a Z is a steal.

I'm not sure why any of this is relevant. If both brobots are alive, you've got a neat little effect that costs you both your EPT slots, so you can get a free focus even when bumping, etc. The downsides are you can never both take red maneuvers, you are giving up a better EPT that gives both double action economy, it does nothing when one dies and you are vulnerable to the enemy loading stress and debris fields, critical hits, etc.

That's a massive disadvantage. Honestly, if Brobots came with Mindlink for free, I'd pay 2 points to run without it! Brobots have no turret, live and die by their K and S maneuvers. Just not being able to do that with both ships at once is enough for me to say "no thanks". But a single tactician on the other side could stop BOTH brobots from being able to maneuver properly next turn. That's some bad juju.

I don't mean to be condescending, when wave 5 came out a friend had Engine Upgrade on a Decimator so I said, "Yeah, but it's a turret and you'll always have shots, you should spend those points on gunner instead" and then when he relentlessly boosted out of arcs I suddenly understood.

Fly them such that they don't have to sloop simultaneously. This is easier to do if you stagger them. You can keep one perpetually stressed and use the other to feed it focuses also.

Let's assume we both know how to fly. Yes, I get you can stagger them, but it means you HAVE to stagger them. It is not so easy to control the game that you can say you're never going to get into a situation where they both need to turn around. It's worse than that, you have to do red/green as a pair. So not only staggered, but you can't do hard turns with the ship that isn't taking a red. This will make your ships pretty **** predictable for the enemy (and being unpredictable is one of the biggest strengths of the brobots).

It's possible to do. Sure, stagger them. It's limiting in the one part of the game where skill really comes into this game (movement), so the payoff better be AMAZING. And the payoff is ... one focus token IF the other ship does a focus. So you're limited in your actions too!

I'm not even saying mindlink doesn't work in lists. If you can give the IG-88 the focus without suffering the kind of crippling disadvantages we're talking about here, it could be cool indeed. The thing is it needs to be asymmetrical. One ship is getting the advantage, the other doesn't mind picking up the stress. So in my IG-88/Manaroo example, IG is getting some serious focus token love and manaroo doesn't care that much about stress if IG needs to sloop. You aren't going to be that predictable and it leaves IG-88 to do its thing. But two IG-88s? No, it's pretty terrible.

- Best case #1, far away IG is the target: k-turning IG advance sensor focuses and does his k-turn. The other clears the stress and uses evade (2 tokens for defense).

- Best case #2, k-turning IG is the target: k-turning IG does an advanced sensor evade (or boost if IG-88C is involved). The other clears the stress and uses focus (2 tokens for defense).

- Medium case, enemy is in a position to block your far away IG: far away IG advance sensors evade and bumps. k-turning IG does an advanced sensor focus. Same amount of tokens but got an extra stress out of it.

There's a whole bunch of caveats there though:

If one IG is slooping, the other must not hit debris

Setting up for a K or Sloop next turn, other IG must not K or Sloop or acquire stress from the enemy.

You HAVE to move the red maneuver first. Situational, but also limiting when one advantage of brobots is being able to do them in either order

You have to pair a red maneuver with a green one.

Ultimately if you have Advanced Sensors and Push the Limit, Case #1 is the same, case #2 is the same, case #3 gives the same tokens but one less stress. You are also not prevented from making K/S moves with both, you don't have to watch for enemy stress, etc. You can also do a green with both ships and get 2 actions each and no stress, or do a white and get 2 actions and a stress. Sure, you're paying 4 points more but there's a LOT more flexibility there. Critically, I think mindlink makes you desperately predictable to the enemy because of the requirement to pair green/reds together.

But I'm not vulnerable to stress. When one gets stressed I can just do a free with the other one and both get focuses.

If someone puts 2-3 stress on a PtL Advanced Sensors Brobot, it's not doing any actions. And since you have AS instead of FCS you're throwing naked dice.

Relying on PtL and Advanced Sensors is more vulnerable to stress than Mindlink (with FCS).

I'm not limited by being forced to focus with one. With FCS that's double modified attack dice.

I Also get 2 Feedback Arrays. Not something you should use Willy nilly but some nice Anti-Acewing tech.

Again, objectively, if one gets stressed by a maneuver, enemy ability or debris, it is better to not get the other one stressed as well. Yes, you can just do a green, but it means limiting your options next turn. We aren't necessarily talking 2-3 stress, just one will be enough to deny both brobots the ability to turn around.

Personally I prefer AS and Predator but PTL is easier to compare to mindlink. I'm unconvinced that PTL is more vulnerable to stress, I get that mindlink can give focuses to stressed ships but at the expense of the double-action on the other ship, so I'd call that a wash. Mindlink still has huge disadvantages beyond that.

What I mean by being forced to focus is if you want to get your extra token (the whole point of the exercise), one of them MUST focus. FCS is irrelevant - I can put FCS or Feedback on a brobot with VI or Crackshot or whatever too.

Edit: I feel this could be settled on VASSAL. Your brobots against mine?

Again, objectively, if one gets stressed by a maneuver, enemy ability or debris, it is better to not get the other one stressed as well. Yes, you can just do a green, but it means limiting your options next turn. We aren't necessarily talking 2-3 stress, just one will be enough to deny both brobots the ability to turn around.

Personally I prefer AS and Predator but PTL is easier to compare to mindlink. I'm unconvinced that PTL is more vulnerable to stress, I get that mindlink can give focuses to stressed ships but at the expense of the double-action on the other ship, so I'd call that a wash. Mindlink still has huge disadvantages beyond that.

What I mean by being forced to focus is if you want to get your extra token (the whole point of the exercise), one of them MUST focus. FCS is irrelevant - I can put FCS or Feedback on a brobot with VI or Crackshot or whatever too.

Edit: I feel this could be settled on VASSAL. Your brobots against mine?

I agree with you that IG88s really don't like stress, so getting both of them stressed through the mindlink is certainly not ideal. But its not ACTUALLY any different than having push the limit or predator. Here's how it goes:

2 IGs with Push or pred +advanced sensors: one gets stressed and advanced sensors is shut off, making that ship predictable as it likely wants to clear its stress so it can take actions again.

2 IGs with mindlink: both get stressed, but still, ONLY ONE is predictable (to clear the stress) so that BOTH get actions (focus token). The other one doesn't HAVE to clear its stress right away if that's not a good move, yet it will still get a focus token!

The only difference there is yes, the mindlink ship is probably going to want to take focus. But its still kind of situational. What enemy's have shots? which IG is vulnerable? If boost or even evade seems the better choice, you can still take that. So I'm not sure either build is MORE disadvantaged than the OTHER when it comes to suffering stress, but the mindlink build is not objectively worse off from both suffering stress (and this is something people are assuming, even though its not true!)

You are also not taking into account the point difference (and it matters!). PTL/predator = 3 pts and Mindlink = 1 point. So adding in Feedback array (for example) as part of its 'advantage' is legitimate because Mindlink gives you those extra 2 points! You are simply ignoring that fact.

So at the end of the day, I don't think Mindlink is the BEST EPT for IG88s. I think it has potential and is worth exploring. I also prefer predator/lone wolf + advanced sensors on my IGs. Does mindlink replace it? Not exactly, but I think its potential is worth exploring to see how it handles top meta builds. The fact that it allows you to fit Feedback array into the list and still take 2 HLCs is something that cannot be ignored. That is a definite PLUS over pred/PTL + advanced sensors, because that build cannot fit in double HLCs and feedback array. And lets face it, one of IGs worst matchups is high PS aces, so having some way to counter them is good...

I agree with you that IG88s really don't like stress, so getting both of them stressed through the mindlink is certainly not ideal. But its not ACTUALLY any different than having push the limit or predator. Here's how it goes:

2 IGs with Push or pred +advanced sensors: one gets stressed and advanced sensors is shut off, making that ship predictable as it likely wants to clear its stress so it can take actions again.

2 IGs with mindlink: both get stressed, but still, ONLY ONE is predictable (to clear the stress) so that BOTH get actions (focus token). The other one doesn't HAVE to clear its stress right away if that's not a good move, yet it will still get a focus token!

The only difference there is yes, the mindlink ship is probably going to want to take focus. But its still kind of situational. What enemy's have shots? which IG is vulnerable? If boost or even evade seems the better choice, you can still take that. So I'm not sure either build is MORE disadvantaged than the OTHER when it comes to suffering stress, but the mindlink build is not objectively worse off from both suffering stress (and this is something people are assuming, even though its not true!)

Like I said before, I just think it is bad for a pure brobot build. I think there are a number of other builds that could work. Kaa'to, Palob, Manaroo, 4-LOM can do interesting things with mindlink and I think any of these can pair well with an IG-88. I've played with and against IG-88 with Manaroo and it's very effective with mindlink. An IG-88 with two focuses, and evade and FCS is pretty boss and outweighs the disadvantages. Just don't give two IG88s mindlink!

So if you stagger them, Brobot 1 can do a Sloop, hand both a stress, and Brobot 2 can do a green and clear the stress it has and hand both a focus.

Next turn Brobot 2 can do a sloop -only it gets a stress since Brobot 1 already has one- and then Brobot 1 can do a green and focus which gives them both focus tokens.

All this in addition to FCS HLC Cannon Gunner. I don't know how to make the point any better, that's superb action economy.

If you're using mindlink to give both a focus as one is making a white maneuver and staying stressed, again, you're still better off without mindlink. You'd be able to simply focus with both ships.

If all mindlink is doing is overcoming the weakness of mindlink, you're better off without it! You still are limited in how you move (both can't take red maneuvers).

Well, no, I've either compared it to crackshot and other abilities of the same cost or I've said "Sure, you're paying 4 points more:". I haven't ignored that. But I am not convinced mindlink is work even 1 point, at least not for brobots. I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages compared with even just not taking an EPT. Not being able to give both ships a red maneuver is a massive disadvantage. But sure, feedback + mindlink vs predator or PTL, I obviously think is still not worth mindlink. But make it feedback + crackshot vs feedback + mindlink, I think it makes it even more obvious.

Like I said before, I just think it is bad for a pure brobot build. I think there are a number of other builds that could work. Kaa'to, Palob, Manaroo, 4-LOM can do interesting things with mindlink and I think any of these can pair well with an IG-88. I've played with and against IG-88 with Manaroo and it's very effective with mindlink. An IG-88 with two focuses, and evade and FCS is pretty boss and outweighs the disadvantages. Just don't give two IG88s mindlink!

Your 1st point----mindlink is only there to overcome its own weakness, therefore better off without it.

This doesn't make sense. We were talking about a very specific scenario: the disadvantage of Mindlink when an outside source stresses one of your ships (and therefore stresses all Mindlinked ships). I compared the end result of that to what happens in the same situation to IG88s with push the limit or predator. And I demonstrated that the end result is the same whether you have Mindlink or PTL or pred.

So of course Mindlink is not there JUST to overcome its own weakness! Its there to give you better action economy on all the turns when you are not taking any stress (which is most of the time!). On the turns when you are taking stress, then its not any better or any worse than having advanced sensors + PTL or predator. I've already demonstrated that so I'm not going to repeat myself.

Your point about not being able to perform more than one red move per turn is valid though. Its a very real disadvantage of using Mindlink, no matter what ships you fly (turrets don't care as much though). If you either find that particular problem too limiting, or you simply do not want to figure out how to overcome it, then yes, Mindlink is not for you. However, I know from my own experience with Mindlink that its not crippling, and its no more of a disadvantage than certain other upgrades can have (such as PTL + advanced sensors).

Your 2nd point---compared to crackshot, its obvious that mindlink is a poor choice.

How exactly? Crackshot gives you a strong alpha strike allowing good damage during the early part of the game. Mindlink gives you better action economy which you can leverage all game long provided both of your IGs remain alive. Basically, crackshot is like a cheap, mini-predator; whereas Mindlink is like a cheap, mini-push the limit (but without the stress). So in that context, its not worse at all. In fact, Mindlink is much more versatile than crackshot. First turn of shooting, yes, crackshot will gaurantee one extra damage, but with mindlink, you have options. Your lead ship can have focus+evade to negate any damage incoming, or can take TL+focus to possibly erase a ship before it shoots. And you can keep this bonus action up as long as you have 2 IGs.

So yeah, I am not seeing how crackshot is 'obviously' better here and I think you are over-stating its value relative to Mindlink.

Your 3rd point---Mindlink is better on anything but dual IGs (even Manaroo + IG is better).

You're welcome to have that opinion, but it is not a fact. I see no reason why dual IGs cannot fare as well (if not better) than IG + Manaroo. To me, the important thing is how does a particular build stack up against other popular meta builds out there? Double IGs have always struggled against high PS aces but are quite strong against other large-based ships and swarms. Having Mindlink & Feedback doesn't weaken any of the matchups IGs were already good at and helps against high PS aces (a little bit). Manaroo + IG88 does weaken the list against swarms, since Manaroo is not as hardy or as hard-hitting as a 2nd IG88, and it doesn't really provide a good answer against high PS aces unless you build Manaroo as a bumpmaster (but then you are sacrificing damage output even more).

So I get you don't like Mindlink on double IG88s, and that's fine, you don't have to run it. But your arguments are not very compelling other than not being able to do more than one red move per turn and I agree that's a legitimate issue. But I would like to try it out for myself to see whether its a 'strong build', rather than just dismissing the build outright based on some feelings...

I see no reason why dual IGs cannot fair as well (if not better) than IG + Manaroo.

"...cannot fare* as well..."

Other than that miniscule bit of pedantry, that was an excellent post. Kudos!

[Double post]