The problem boils down to this: Unless you're a turret ship, and only a few of those exist(and even then some of them do have this), you need to have repositioning actions in order to win the game, simple as that...
And this is why X Wing needs a 2.0 reboot, and the sooner the better IMO.
On this I agree... but how to do the implementation? Just a rewrite of a few core rules? Or something bigger and more drastic?
This is correct - however there were quite a few extremely underwhelming ships released in the past.
Wave 1: X-Wing and TIE Advanced - may have been balanced back then (I wasn't playing - can't say) - but power creep simply overtook them, Y-Wing is difficult to use due to the high cost/performance ratio of missiles/torpedoes & turrets.
Wave 2: A-Wing and TIE Interceptor - first 2 ships to get "fixed"
Wave 3: HWK-290 is implemented strangely in the game - however it's price and upgrades made it viable tru later crew and turret upgrades, B-Wing begins to push the X-Wing out of viability. TIE Bomber is difficult to use due to the high cost/performance ratio of missiles/torpedoes.
Rebel Huge Ships, Imerial Aces: TIE Interceptor gets "fixed", more X-Wings
Wave 4: TIE Defender and E-Wing both overcosted - TIE Phantom insanely powerful (nerfed), Z-95 completely pushes the X-Wing out of viability.
Rebel Aces: A-Wing gets "fixed"
Wave 6: M-3A Scyk and StarViper both overcosted and strangely implemented - Aggressor is the first Agility 3 ship published since the TIE Fighter that is just about right. Most Wanted attempts to "fix" Y-Wings.
Imperial Raider: TIE Advanced gets "fixed"
Wave 7: Turret upgrades get a boost. Missiles/Torpedoes get a boost. Bombs get a boost. Kihraxz is strangely implemented - but viable. Low attack/agility, high defense squadrons begin to shift out of the meta due to TLT.
Imperial Assault Carrier: More TIE Fighters.
Now: Wave 8: More Turret and Missiles/Torpedoes boosts. X-Wing "fix" poorly distributed. Reserving comments about the new ships until I get more playtime. TLT is overwhelmed by Wolfpack.
Soon: Imperial Veterans: TIE Defender "fix". More Missiles/Torpedoes boosts.
Prior to wave 7 all ships with Agility 3 that were not the TIE Fighter had playability issues - FFG simply costed them too highly. I'm not sure about the 2 new TIEs however but they are much cheaper than the old standard.
Any ship that had Pri Weap Att 2 or less and relied on missiles, torpedoes or turrets (Y-Wing, TIE Bomber, TIE Punisher) also had playability issues til wave 7 and 8.
Cloaking mechanism was poorly released and since corrected.
FFG, are you listening?
FFG also needs to make these things sell. People already have plenty of X-Wings. I doubt people will appreciate buying an extra X-Wing just to get a fix title card.
FFG, are you listening?
FFG also needs to make these things sell. People already have plenty of X-Wings. I doubt people will appreciate buying an extra X-Wing just to get a fix title card.
I think you'd be surprised. People bought a RAIDER for the TIE Advanced fix, and the X Wing is a hugely popular ship with an acknowledge problem in performance. A Rebel Veterans or Rogue Veterans box that included an X Wing or two as well as the much anticipated fix would sell like hot-cakes, IMO.
Gib S&V aces first >:C
Merc can into Ace!
We need some prequel ships.
Anakin Skywalker
PS9 Y-Wing
Calling it first. ;-)
Just kidding, E-Wing and T-65 it is.
E-Wing will be in it for sure. It's in desperate need of help (except for Corran), and is sort of the Rebel version of the Defender, which, as we know, is getting it's own well-deserved buff. It's logical, therefore, that the E-Wing will get something too.
The other obvious candidate is the T-65 X-Wing. Problem is, it already has tons of unique pilots (second only to the standard TIE if I'm not mistaken). Then again, being the most iconic ship and the game's namesake, it's probably fine to give it even more goodies. It's versatility was, after all, why it was supposedly so widely used. Some new, more cost-efficient generics would be good, as would some kind of title (which it currently lacks).
Y-Wings could do with more named pilots, but they aren't in much need of help other than that. With the additions from Most Wanted, plus now TLT, the generics see plenty of play. The same is also kind of true of the Z-95. It could do with more uniques, but the generics are fine, being either used as cheap filler or efficient ordinance carriers with the new Guidance Chips. It would be cool of the pack just contained some extra pilot cards for these ships, but based on all previous FFG releases, that won't happen.
If anything is disappointing, it is the tendency to regard a (hypothetical) Rebel Veterans expansion as a 'fix' for existing ships, rather than a new expansion that brings options to actually expand the game and simply make it more fun.
"The Y-Wing should not be in Rebel Veterans because the Y-Wing doesn't need a fix." Get real. I'm not saying it must be a Y, but that reasoning really doesn't make a better game.
'Fixes' should be a very minor aspect of every expansion. Expansions should be so well designed that they don't need fixing.
Sure, fixes shouldn't be needed, but they ARE needed. And if a fix gets currently un-used ships back into the game, then it IS adding options.
The problem boils down to this: Unless you're a turret ship, and only a few of those exist(and even then some of them do have this), you need to have repositioning actions in order to win the game, simple as that...
And this is why X Wing needs a 2.0 reboot, and the sooner the better IMO.
On this I agree... but how to do the implementation? Just a rewrite of a few core rules? Or something bigger and more drastic?
A re-write of the core rules, and re-issue of the relevant cards. They'd probably have to do a card pack release initially to get everyone up to speed though.
If anything is disappointing, it is the tendency to regard a (hypothetical) Rebel Veterans expansion as a 'fix' for existing ships, rather than a new expansion that brings options to actually expand the game and simply make it more fun.
"The Y-Wing should not be in Rebel Veterans because the Y-Wing doesn't need a fix." Get real. I'm not saying it must be a Y, but that reasoning really doesn't make a better game.
'Fixes' should be a very minor aspect of every expansion. Expansions should be so well designed that they don't need fixing.
Sure, fixes shouldn't be needed, but they ARE needed. And if a fix gets currently un-used ships back into the game, then it IS adding options.
But if new expansions are only ways to get old stuff back into the game, there is something wrong. Especially if that means disregarding better options; the E-Wing is not a ship that begs to be included in the game. It does not appear in the films and is not a staple of other modern SW material. Simply putting out an expansion because the first one was a mistake is a negative choice; 'how can we remove the bad things rather than add some good'.
If anything is disappointing, it is the tendency to regard a (hypothetical) Rebel Veterans expansion as a 'fix' for existing ships, rather than a new expansion that brings options to actually expand the game and simply make it more fun.
"The Y-Wing should not be in Rebel Veterans because the Y-Wing doesn't need a fix." Get real. I'm not saying it must be a Y, but that reasoning really doesn't make a better game.
'Fixes' should be a very minor aspect of every expansion. Expansions should be so well designed that they don't need fixing.
Sure, fixes shouldn't be needed, but they ARE needed. And if a fix gets currently un-used ships back into the game, then it IS adding options.
But if new expansions are only ways to get old stuff back into the game, there is something wrong. Especially if that means disregarding better options; the E-Wing is not a ship that begs to be included in the game. It does not appear in the films and is not a staple of other modern SW material. Simply putting out an expansion because the first one was a mistake is a negative choice; 'how can we remove the bad things rather than add some good'.
Right, but if we have say, 10 ships in a faction, but only 7 of them are any good and the remaining 3 need to be fixed, then the faction has 7 options.
If we want to add, say, two options, we can either create something new, or we can repair two of the crappy options. Either way, we're going to have 9 options at the end of it, so why not fix what's broken before we start worrying about adding more?
I agree about the E Wing. It's an ugly ship and I wouldn't be sad if I never saw one on the table again, but some people like them and want to use them, so why not fix them so that they can?
What about the Sennator's Shuttle! Most of us haven't seen one on the table for years!
More seriously, a t-65 title would be nice. Some y-wing pilots would be nice. But there are no rebel ships out there that don't see table time. Maybe some of the hawks, but that's about it. I don't see a need for a rebel veterens. I would certainly expect a Scum Aces pack to come out first
E-wing is practically guaranteed.
Y-wing maybe?
doesn't need much help since it has TLT.
X-wing unfortunately this ship has been "fixed" like 5 times now already has a bunch of pilots just wait for Rogue One ships to come out FFG will fix it then.
Hwk-290 I hate this ship so I don't want it in there. (sorry hwk fans)
So probably E and Y.
Additionally one of the things that's would help the X the most is more non unique droids which could easily be included in a pack containing Es and Ys.
For the approximately 100th time I can say:
Corsec Green T-65 X-Wing
Piloten cards:
Corran Horen
Tycho Celchu
Nawara Ven
Myn Donos
Astromech cards:
Whistler
Gates
Shiner
Generic R2
Generic R5
Genetic R7
4 copies of integrated astromech
Edited by CununculusFor the approximately 100th time I can say:
Corsec Green T-65 X-Wing
Piloten cards:
Corran Horen
Tycho Celchu
Nawara Ven
Myn Donos
Astromech cards:
Whistler
Gates
Shiner
Generic R2
Generic R5
Genetic R7
4 copies of integrated astromech
Don't see Gavin, Ooryl, Pash, Aril, Inyri, Asyr, or Zev Senesca on that list.
Ooryl FTW.
Call me crazy, but I I want to see more X wings in a game called X wing miniatures.
Call me crazy, but I I want to see more X wings in a game called X wing miniatures.
utter lunacy
I would have said the X-Wing and Y-Wing myself.
Y-Wing pilots - Elite Talent generic (Gold Squadron Veteran?), Davish Krail, Dex Tiree, Norra Wexley
X-Wing pilots - Elite Talent generic (Rogue Squadron Pilot?), Grizz Frix, John Branon, Sila Kott
A couple of copies each of Targeting Astromech, Integrated Astromech and Guidance Chips for those that need them - maybe even an alternative source for Bomb Loadout - alongside some other nice new Titles, Modifications and Astromechs.
X-Wing and E-Wing, no doubts.
The reason I think Y-wings are a no-brainer to include is because there are a BUNCH of pilots from the original trilogy they haven't used. As it stands, they only have used one named pilot from the movies, as Salm is an EU character.
And remember, FFG has fleshed out a ship in the past that was considered the best in its faction: the B-wing.
The second ship I think could be the Xwing, Ewing, or even the HWK could use something to address the 1 attack die issue.
Edited by quasistellarCall me crazy, but I I want to see more X wings in a game called X wing miniatures.
Less of that nonsensical babble.
I demand an esoteric ship from the expanded Universe that no one except the most dedicated Star Wars fanatic has ever heard about! More K-wings! More of whatever Gleepglorp flew in that on EU comic book that one time!
If anything is disappointing, it is the tendency to regard a (hypothetical) Rebel Veterans expansion as a 'fix' for existing ships, rather than a new expansion that brings options to actually expand the game and simply make it more fun.
"The Y-Wing should not be in Rebel Veterans because the Y-Wing doesn't need a fix." Get real. I'm not saying it must be a Y, but that reasoning really doesn't make a better game.
'Fixes' should be a very minor aspect of every expansion. Expansions should be so well designed that they don't need fixing.
The fact however is, that the X-wing, Hawk, and E-wing sincerely need buffs, where's the Z-95 and Y-wing really just need diversity. You can't deny that. It makes the most logical sense to include buffs to ships that really are underpowered as opposed to new content for ships that just need diversity. I'm not discounting the Y-wing being in Rebel Veterans, but if the Y-wing is in there, and the E-wing or X-wing are not, and don't get any buffs, I will be seriously disappointed with the design choices of the expansion.
'Fixes' are unfortunately a very necessary part of the game, and it makes much more sense to include ships that need genuine 'Fixes' as opposed to ships that really just need diversity.
Well here are a few E-Wing squadron names and pilots that haven't been used (all Legends - the E-Wing is not Canon).