Ok so curious how this works out. I had a game where I boba proc'd and I took out my opponents hlc. Does he get to shoot with primaries now? the outrider card states "you cannot perform primary weapon attacks if you have a cannon equipped." Boba gets to choose an upgrade card and discard it. So the way I see it is he should not be able to shoot because his hlc is still equipped but flipped over and not usable. For those that say he does still get to shoot primary because he no longer has it equipped then what happens to the points from hlc? If it is truly gone and not part of his ship anymore then if I destroy his ship then those points from hlc don't count am I right? After thinking it over I think he does get to shoot primary but I really need to know if the points from hlc still are counted towards point totals after they have been discarded. Any thoughts

You discard the HLC. It is no longer equipped. He gets to shoot with the primary. It's the same as the old secondary weapons failure card.

You discard the HLC. It is no longer equipped. He gets to shoot with the primary. It's the same as the old secondary weapons failure card.

So what happens to the 7 points from hlc if it's been discarded? Do I get those if I destroy him or are they deducted from his total ship cost? Also where is it in the rules and or errata cuz I just looked over the errata and saw nothing regarding this.

You discard the HLC. It is no longer equipped. He gets to shoot with the primary. It's the same as the old secondary weapons failure card.

So what happens to the 7 points from hlc if it's been discarded? Do I get those if I destroy him or are they deducted from his total ship cost? Also where is it in the rules and or errata cuz I just looked over the errata and saw nothing regarding this.

Yes, you do get the points. Same as you would if he had discarded a missile card he fired at you.

It doesn't need to be in the FAQ or errata because it's built into the text of the cards. The Outrider title starts with "While you have a [cannon] upgrade equipped...", so if the cannon is removed the card no longer does anything.

EDIT: Also, why is this not in the Rules forum?

You discard the HLC. It is no longer equipped. He gets to shoot with the primary. It's the same as the old secondary weapons failure card.

So what happens to the 7 points from hlc if it's been discarded? Do I get those if I destroy him or are they deducted from his total ship cost? Also where is it in the rules and or errata cuz I just looked over the errata and saw nothing regarding this.

Yes, you do get the points. Same as you would if he had discarded a missile card he fired at you.

It doesn't need to be in the FAQ or errata because it's built into the text of the cards. The Outrider title starts with "While you have a [cannon] upgrade equipped...", so if the cannon is removed the card no longer does anything.

EDIT: Also, why is this not in the Rules forum?

I didnt post in the rules forums cuz whenever I've posted there it takes awhile to get a response, figured I would post here since general discussion can be about anything really and it's more likely to be seen by others who can respond to the question.

Edit: also here is from the tournament rules page 4 "When a player is instructed to discard an Upgrade card, he or she places it under the Ship card it is attached to instead. Upgrade cards under Ship cards are out of play. Discarded Upgrade cards remain under the Ship card to which they are equipped; they are not placed into the score pile unless the ship to which they are equipped is destroyed."

Notice this part "Discarded Upgrade cards remain under the Ship card to which they are equipped; they are not placed into the score pile unless the ship to which they are equipped is destroyed."

So I don't see anything stating they become unequipped only that they are just not useable/out of play. In fact it says they STAY with the ship to which they are equipped. Also it says they DO NOT get placed into the score pile unless the ship is destroyed.

Back with the old damage deck I asked Alex Davy about this. He confirmed that if the HLC is disabled the Outrider reverts back to its primary weapon. Like you, my first thought was the Outrider was weaponless when it received the secondary weapon failure card.

Back with the old damage deck I asked Alex Davy about this. He confirmed that if the HLC is disabled the Outrider reverts back to its primary weapon. Like you, my first thought was the Outrider was weaponless when it received the secondary weapon failure card.

That's cool and all and thank you for the info but I would still like to see something printed about this somewhere because according to their rules the card is still equipped to the ship it's attached to. Also I hope you don't take that the wrong way, I just would rather see it ruled on since their rules explicitly say it's still equipped on the ship. Again thank you for the info and the nice post

If "Upgrade cards under ship cards are out of play" is not good enough for you, I don't think we can come up with anything to satisfy you.

If "Upgrade cards under ship cards are out of play" is not good enough for you, I don't think we can come up with anything to satisfy you.

You answered your own question. It is out of play.

You want something that is already in print. The card is placed down, under the pilot card. It is no longer usable/discarded. Meaning the outrider qualifications are no longer met, the cannon card is spent, meaning it switches to primary, the cannon slot is empty. Now the only time that the cannon is relevant again is at the end of the match when calculating score, that's where the second part comes in. As per anything discarded, what it entered the fray with is what points it exits with.

Back with the old damage deck I asked Alex Davy about this. He confirmed that if the HLC is disabled the Outrider reverts back to its primary weapon. Like you, my first thought was the Outrider was weaponless when it received the secondary weapon failure card.

That's cool and all and thank you for the info but I would still like to see something printed about this somewhere because according to their rules the card is still equipped to the ship it's attached to. Also I hope you don't take that the wrong way, I just would rather see it ruled on since their rules explicitly say it's still equipped on the ship. Again thank you for the info and the nice post

You are starting to seem like you just don't want to hear anything but validation. Rules have been sited, the Outrider title is very clear, but yet you still need to "see something printed"? I think even if it said in black and white "He may shoot the primary" you would site some other tangential rule and say it was unclear.

If "Upgrade cards under ship cards are out of play" is not good enough for you, I don't think we can come up with anything to satisfy you.

I get that they are out of play but it also says they are still equipped. That's what I'm having a hard time understanding.

It is not unclear. They are still considered for scoring but only if you kill the ship it was originally equipped on. If you do not kill the ship, then you don't get the points at all. Exactly like missles/torps/bombs

If "Upgrade cards under ship cards are out of play" is not good enough for you, I don't think we can come up with anything to satisfy you.

100% agree.

If that HLC is camped out underneath Dash how can it possibly be equipped? I mean it's not like it's in play anymore because you can't even see it.

Trying to argue that the discarded HLC remains equipped thus shutting down a primary due to Outrider is about as crazy as missing the implied "this ship" with most effects. Example: If Vader is crew on a ship then he can be used every time an attack is made by any ship in the squadron. After all, it does say "any" attack does it not?

As for the rules forum your questions will get answered when placed in there almost as fast as if you clog up the general forum with them.

Back with the old damage deck I asked Alex Davy about this. He confirmed that if the HLC is disabled the Outrider reverts back to its primary weapon. Like you, my first thought was the Outrider was weaponless when it received the secondary weapon failure card.

That's cool and all and thank you for the info but I would still like to see something printed about this somewhere because according to their rules the card is still equipped to the ship it's attached to. Also I hope you don't take that the wrong way, I just would rather see it ruled on since their rules explicitly say it's still equipped on the ship. Again thank you for the info and the nice post

I think it's one of those rulings that's not explicitly called out for this particular scenario. As mentioned above if the card is out of play it's put beneath the ship card. In this case the HLC is no longer in service or available. The ship reverts back to its primary weapon. It may help if you think of the HLC as an add-on rather than a replacement for the original weapon.

I sympathize with your predicament. I have had questions about abilities or results that weren't explicitly called out and had to rely heavily on these forums. Sometimes the answer was obvious after being pointed to the specific rule or FAQ entry. Other times you had to rely on replies from the more experienced players. Not necessarily satisfying but accurate.

If that HLC is camped out underneath Dash how can it possibly be equipped? I mean it's not like it's in play anymore because you can't even see it.

Trying to argue that the discarded HLC remains equipped thus shutting down a primary due to Outrider is about as crazy as missing the implied "this ship" with most effects. Example: If Vader is crew on a ship then he can be used every time an attack is made by any ship in the squadron. After all, it does say "any" attack does it not?

As for the rules forum your questions will get answered when placed in there almost as fast as if you clog up the general forum with them.

Back with the old damage deck I asked Alex Davy about this. He confirmed that if the HLC is disabled the Outrider reverts back to its primary weapon. Like you, my first thought was the Outrider was weaponless when it received the secondary weapon failure card.

That's cool and all and thank you for the info but I would still like to see something printed about this somewhere because according to their rules the card is still equipped to the ship it's attached to. Also I hope you don't take that the wrong way, I just would rather see it ruled on since their rules explicitly say it's still equipped on the ship. Again thank you for the info and the nice post

I think it's one of those rulings that's not explicitly called out for this particular scenario. As mentioned above if the card is out of play it's put beneath the ship card. In this case the HLC is no longer in service or available. The ship reverts back to its primary weapon. It may help if you think of the HLC as an add-on rather than a replacement for the original weapon.

I sympathize with your predicament. I have had questions about abilities or results that weren't explicitly called out and had to rely heavily on these forums. Sometimes the answer was obvious after being pointed to the specific rule or FAQ entry. Other times you had to rely on replies from the more experienced players. Not necessarily satisfying but accurate.

Thank you for that response, I really do appreciate the nice tone instead of the "your dumb for thinking that" tone in others posts. I will take your advice and just leave it at that I guess

Does anyone else ever feel like no matter how they write the cards, there will be those who think it could have been worded better?

Yay English I guess....

Does anyone else ever feel like no matter how they write the cards, there will be those who think it could have been worded better?

Yay English I guess....

Every other card I've understood and never had an issue really and played since wave 1. To me tho the tournament rules just make it seem like 2 things are happening 1.) the card is out of play 2.) it is still equipped. Seems contradictory to me where others may see it as obvious. And I understand you can't write every single situation into the rules otherwise you would have a huge rulebook but again this just seems contradictory to me is all.

Does anyone else ever feel like no matter how they write the cards, there will be those who think it could have been worded better?

Yay English I guess....

Every other card I've understood and never had an issue really and played since wave 1. To me tho the tournament rules just make it seem like 2 things are happening 1.) the card is out of play 2.) it is still equipped. Seems contradictory to me where others may see it as obvious. And I understand you can't write every single situation into the rules otherwise you would have a huge rulebook but again this just seems contradictory to me is all.

There is no contradiction here. You don't even need the tournament rules, the situation is actually well explained in the rules reference:

When an Upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped facedown. The card is out of play for all purposes except when determining the total squad point cost of the ship to which it was equipped. If an Upgrade card is flipped faceup by a game effect, it returns to play equipped to the same ship.

Does anyone else ever feel like no matter how they write the cards, there will be those who think it could have been worded better?

Yay English I guess....

Every other card I've understood and never had an issue really and played since wave 1. To me tho the tournament rules just make it seem like 2 things are happening 1.) the card is out of play 2.) it is still equipped. Seems contradictory to me where others may see it as obvious. And I understand you can't write every single situation into the rules otherwise you would have a huge rulebook but again this just seems contradictory to me is all.

There is no contradiction here. You don't even need the tournament rules, the situation is actually well explained in the rules reference:

When an Upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped facedown. The card is out of play for all purposes except when determining the total squad point cost of the ship to which it was equipped. If an Upgrade card is flipped faceup by a game effect, it returns to play equipped to the same ship.

That's what I was looking for! Thank you for that, i went over that thing a bunch of times and finally saw it at the very end. That is worded a lot better than the tournament one. Again thanks.

That's cool and all and thank you for the info but I would still like to see something printed about this somewhere because according to their rules the card is still equipped to the ship it's attached to.

It is. It's written on the Outrider title card.

Does anyone else ever feel like no matter how they write the cards, there will be those who think it could have been worded better?

Yay English I guess....

The English-language can be confusing at times. Its given us such quotes as, "There is a blue of the sea so blue it's as red as the red of blood". Words like "Doctor" which can refer to a PHd or M.D. or the act of falsifying or fixing something. Regional variations of accepted definitions can be another source of problems.

Lastly, there's no reason to get snarky with the OP. I'm sure everyone at one time or another has had a similar mental block. If you haven't consider yourself fortunate.

Does anyone else ever feel like no matter how they write the cards, there will be those who think it could have been worded better?

Yay English I guess....

Every other card I've understood and never had an issue really and played since wave 1. To me tho the tournament rules just make it seem like 2 things are happening 1.) the card is out of play 2.) it is still equipped. Seems contradictory to me where others may see it as obvious. And I understand you can't write every single situation into the rules otherwise you would have a huge rulebook but again this just seems contradictory to me is all.

There is no contradiction here. You don't even need the tournament rules, the situation is actually well explained in the rules reference:

When an Upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped facedown. The card is out of play for all purposes except when determining the total squad point cost of the ship to which it was equipped. If an Upgrade card is flipped faceup by a game effect, it returns to play equipped to the same ship.

Glad we could clear that up, because I was also a bit worried as a Frequent Dash Flyer. In that rules quote it clearly says "...to which it WAS equiped" which means that it no longer is equiped and therefore the outrider title is nulled and your primary turret works again! yay!