I included x7 in the example at the top of my post, which was separate from the list I posted.

So you see all my bases are covered.

So there

PTL stinks and everyone who uses it on Defenders is morally, physically, and aesthetically inferior!

And what do you know about it?

Are you some sort of Defender defender who is an expert on defenders?

Yes. He kinda is!

I might be wrong, but I fully believe that Bio has a Defender plushie that he snuggles to sleep every night

I would pay cash money for a TIE defender plushie to cuddle to sleep every night.

The moment after I wrote that post, I had the exact same thought, and went looking.

I couldn't find any. Which makes me sad.

I included x7 in the example at the top of my post, which was separate from the list I posted.

So you see all my bases are covered.

So there

PTL stinks and everyone who uses it on Defenders is morally, physically, and aesthetically inferior!

And what do you know about it?

Are you some sort of Defender defender who is an expert on defenders?

Yes. He kinda is!

I might be wrong, but I fully believe that Bio has a Defender plushie that he snuggles to sleep every night

Doesn't everyone?

Brath + Lone wolf + heavy laser cannon + tie mk2 engines. Trust me.

This X 2

Brath is the only defender worth taking currently. Until imperial veterans hits.

Brath + Lone wolf + heavy laser cannon + tie mk2 engines. Trust me.

This X 2

Brath is the only defender worth taking currently. Until imperial veterans hits.

I feel like you misspelled 'Vessery'. The free target locks are pure money and as much as I love Rexler he's second fiddle for now.

Brath + Lone wolf + heavy laser cannon + tie mk2 engines. Trust me.

This X 2

Brath is the only defender worth taking currently. Until imperial veterans hits.

I feel like you misspelled 'Vessery'. The free target locks are pure money and as much as I love Rexler he's second fiddle for now.

I think Vessery is great, and you can build him a lot of ways to be good, provided his squad is adequate to support him. Rex is also good, but I think is more limited in his builds. He needs to points sunk into additional upgrades that really leverage his PS8 into something nasty. The above build is good, provided you can activate Lone Wolf pretty regularly. I haven't had much luck with a few exceptions, so I normally rock Predator.

Yeah, Vessery requires being built around. Luckily, that isn't so much an issue any more, what with the Advance fix, TIE/fo, and Advance Prototype all out now. Yes, Veterans is good for Vessery, but the additions of more support for him is the most important boost to Vessery.

I included x7 in the example at the top of my post, which was separate from the list I posted.

So you see all my bases are covered.

So there

PTL stinks and everyone who uses it on Defenders is morally, physically, and aesthetically inferior!

And what do you know about it?

Are you some sort of Defender defender who is an expert on defenders?

Just to let you know, Bio was the guy who took dual Tie Defenders to a number of events and won with them. This was back when everyone thought the Tie Defender was utter garbage and no way at all worth it. Since then, a number of people have taken them to Store Championships and done very well. Bio has been the guy to actually break the mold and make people look at Tie Defenders again.

I've had a lot of fun with Col. Vessery, 2 Tie FO's, and a Maarek Stele in Tie Adv. and Adv Targeting Computer. I can also see 4 generic FO's, as well, but I think Maarek (or another named one) help out a lot.

Assuming that the Glave will be 33 with an EPT, what about "Stay on Target" with x7 and Ion Mk2? It would give you crazy mobility, and the Mk2 make the stress a minor issue. Even if you change a 3 speed manuver you still get your evade as it's assign an evade token. They could fly circles around the board and be able to reposition if 1 gets into trouble.

wait, I think I did my math wrong...could only do 2, but still an idea

Any assumption that uses a 33 pt Glaive seems like a bad assumption to me.

Any assumption that uses a 33 pt Glaive seems like a bad assumption to me.

Yeah hard to see them being less than 34 honestly.

I included x7 in the example at the top of my post, which was separate from the list I posted.

So you see all my bases are covered.

So there

PTL stinks and everyone who uses it on Defenders is morally, physically, and aesthetically inferior!

And what do you know about it?

Are you some sort of Defender defender who is an expert on defenders?

Yes. He kinda is!

I might be wrong, but I fully believe that Bio has a Defender plushie that he snuggles to sleep every night

I included x7 in the example at the top of my post, which was separate from the list I posted.

So you see all my bases are covered.

So there

PTL stinks and everyone who uses it on Defenders is morally, physically, and aesthetically inferior!

And what do you know about it?

Are you some sort of Defender defender who is an expert on defenders?

Just to let you know, Bio was the guy who took dual Tie Defenders to a number of events and won with them. This was back when everyone thought the Tie Defender was utter garbage and no way at all worth it. Since then, a number of people have taken them to Store Championships and done very well. Bio has been the guy to actually break the mold and make people look at Tie Defenders again.

I've had a lot of fun with Col. Vessery, 2 Tie FO's, and a Maarek Stele in Tie Adv. and Adv Targeting Computer. I can also see 4 generic FO's, as well, but I think Maarek (or another named one) help out a lot.

Aww, you guys are so sweet. No plushie, though, my Defender is hand-made from railroad steel once driven by John Henry himself.

Any assumption that uses a 33 pt Glaive seems like a bad assumption to me.

I guess for 33 points Glaives would be too good to use any other Defender pilot.

I included x7 in the example at the top of my post, which was separate from the list I posted.

So you see all my bases are covered.

So there

PTL stinks and everyone who uses it on Defenders is morally, physically, and aesthetically inferior!

And what do you know about it?

Are you some sort of Defender defender who is an expert on defenders?

Yes. He kinda is!

I might be wrong, but I fully believe that Bio has a Defender plushie that he snuggles to sleep every night

I included x7 in the example at the top of my post, which was separate from the list I posted.

So you see all my bases are covered.

So there

PTL stinks and everyone who uses it on Defenders is morally, physically, and aesthetically inferior!

And what do you know about it?

Are you some sort of Defender defender who is an expert on defenders?

Just to let you know, Bio was the guy who took dual Tie Defenders to a number of events and won with them. This was back when everyone thought the Tie Defender was utter garbage and no way at all worth it. Since then, a number of people have taken them to Store Championships and done very well. Bio has been the guy to actually break the mold and make people look at Tie Defenders again.

I've had a lot of fun with Col. Vessery, 2 Tie FO's, and a Maarek Stele in Tie Adv. and Adv Targeting Computer. I can also see 4 generic FO's, as well, but I think Maarek (or another named one) help out a lot.

Aww, you guys are so sweet. No plushie, though, my Defender is hand-made from rail-road spikes once driven by John Henry himself.

Pfft noob mines made of Lego.

Victory is mine!

If they were PS 5, I could see it. But they are PS 6. And I don't see them fundamentally changing the costing of PS by having 1 pt get you 3 PS AND a EPT. Hell, the Barons pay a point for their EPT.

If they were PS 5, I could see it. But they are PS 6. And I don't see them fundamentally changing the costing of PS by having 1 pt get you 3 PS AND a EPT. Hell, the Barons pay a point for their EPT.

I agree, but unfortunately the defenders are currently overpriced in my opinion, even with the titles they'll be just a shade too expensive...

Now FFG will probably do as you say and keep Glaives in line with the other defenders, but I'd be okay with them 'undercosting' them compared to their Onyx and Delta compatriots

Really? 28 and 30 pt generics gets you some nice fire power. Not to mention, defense to help their nice HP behind good agility.

Even at 34, it will be tough not to take Glaives.

If they were PS 5, I could see it. But they are PS 6. And I don't see them fundamentally changing the costing of PS by having 1 pt get you 3 PS AND a EPT. Hell, the Barons pay a point for their EPT.

I agree, but unfortunately the defenders are currently overpriced in my opinion, even with the titles they'll be just a shade too expensive...

Now FFG will probably do as you say and keep Glaives in line with the other defenders, but I'd be okay with them 'undercosting' them compared to their Onyx and Delta compatriots

I encourage you to try them with proxied titles. I think you'll find they're not too expensive at all.

If they were PS 5, I could see it. But they are PS 6. And I don't see them fundamentally changing the costing of PS by having 1 pt get you 3 PS AND a EPT. Hell, the Barons pay a point for their EPT.

I agree, but unfortunately the defenders are currently overpriced in my opinion, even with the titles they'll be just a shade too expensive...

Now FFG will probably do as you say and keep Glaives in line with the other defenders, but I'd be okay with them 'undercosting' them compared to their Onyx and Delta compatriots

I encourage you to try them with proxied titles. I think you'll find they're not too expensive at all.

The proof really is in the pudding here. Running x7 feels so good it's criminal, the extra actionless evade making them feel so much more tanky.

And the new tie shuttle finally gives you a cost effective way to buff defenders.

Any assumption that uses a 33 pt Glaive seems like a bad assumption to me.

I guess for 33 points Glaives would be too good to use any other Defender pilot.

If they were PS 5, I could see it. But they are PS 6. And I don't see them fundamentally changing the costing of PS by having 1 pt get you 3 PS AND a EPT. Hell, the Barons pay a point for their EPT.

If they were PS 5, I could see it. But they are PS 6. And I don't see them fundamentally changing the costing of PS by having 1 pt get you 3 PS AND a EPT. Hell, the Barons pay a point for their EPT.

I agree, but unfortunately the defenders are currently overpriced in my opinion, even with the titles they'll be just a shade too expensive...

Now FFG will probably do as you say and keep Glaives in line with the other defenders, but I'd be okay with them 'undercosting' them compared to their Onyx and Delta compatriots

You all make good points. Kind of combining your thoughts, consider this: The previous Defender pilots are overpriced. None of us has any doubt about that. I see two possible approaches here to get the Defender back on the table:

Option A: Release new pilots that are significantly cheaper relative to the existing pilots to make the new pilots playable.

Pros: We get useful pilots at an appropriate price point.

Cons: Older pilots for the ship essentially fall out of the game and still see no table time, and the price of entry increases anyway.

Option B: Release upgrades that adjust the price and capabilities of the ship in general, while potentially offering new pilots as well.

Pros: We get useful pilots at an appropriate price point, AND we get more capable and customizable ships in general.

Cons: Price of entry still increases, and a potentially more complicated list building process. New pilots must reflect the same overcosting as the originals.

That last con is the kicker here. The Defenders follow Option B, same as other fixes in the past. We have another ship that has received a price reduction, and we have also seen another ship that was given a powerful upgrade slot at a significantly reduced cost. At each of these previous times, we also received new pilots. These new pilots, relative to their capabilities and to other ships in the game, are STILL overpriced, without the additional upgrades that were included in their respective releases.

The TIE Defenders must follow the same trend. We have a title that reduces the ship's cost by 2 points, and another title that grants a second attack only for the cost of the additional weapon. The new defender pilots will cost about 2 points too much, so that their value can be adjusted with the new titles. As it were, if we got a Glaive at say, 32 or 33 points, it would not reflect the previous pricing conditions for the ship, and it would still be able to equip either of the new titles. So, hypothetically, we could see PS6 TIE Defenders at 30 points each. Which would be ridiculous... :-D

This is why I'd really say the Glaive will be 34 points. Because it really SHOULD be 32 points, but it has access to a 2 point cost reduction.

Oddly enough, the OTHER ship in Imperial Veterans, the TIE Bomber, seemingly uses Option A, as evidenced by Tomax Bren. The low priced Bombers have little issue as it were, but the named pilots were strangely taxed for their capabilities. The issues are gentler than with the Defender, obviously, but Tomax Bren falls at 24 points, which is more in line with what the pricing convention is alongside other ships. This may leave Major Rhymer out to dry, as he has an inexplicable five point tax on a potentially potent ability. But, we also got a title that gives the ship an entirely new role in its faction and interesting options for customization. But, I digress.

I think the glaive is going to be 32PTS!!! Take them with the -2 title and have 10pts left for additions!!!

oh... that might be a bad idea... real bad.

Vessery and Brath are OK although you really need to build around them to get the best of them. The existing Generics are a couple of points overpriced IMHO and this is why they have painted themselves into a corner with the glaives. There should be a bigger differences that there is between Vessery (35) and the Onyx (32) because for those 3 points, you get +3PS, an EPT and a pretty decent special rule.

If they make Glaives 33, they obsolete the Onyx. If they make them 34, they risk making them uncompetitive compared to Vessery himself. Really the Onyx should have been ~30 points and the Delta ~28. Of course if they had priced them correctly in the first place we probably wouldn't be getting the new Veterans titles.

Everybody knows /x7 title pairs exceptionally well with Juke, forcing enemies to spend their Focus tokens, or giving the x7 additional punch, when enemies lack said tokens. But I just had the strangest idea...

TIE/x7 title + Wired (+TIE Mk II optionally)

What you get is... well, weird. From a ship that doesn't mind stress, as he assigns Evades to itself anyway, provided it flies fast, we made a vessel, not only not minding stress, but actually... enjoying it? Bumping's not a problem as well. Pair it with TIE mk II mod, and you get ton of possibilities.
I do realise it's probably still better to go with Juke, but I just had not seen a combo like this before and wanted to share

There's almost nothing to be done for Rhymer. He's simply the most expensive pilot in the game, period. Double down on a pilot ability that is completely tied to a historically unpopular upgrade type and a very low PS increase and you have a pilot that's just overcosted. Fixing his ship doesn't change the fact he's just not worth taking over other pilots available to it.

Vessery and Brath are OK although you really need to build around them to get the best of them. The existing Generics are a couple of points overpriced IMHO and this is why they have painted themselves into a corner with the glaives. There should be a bigger differences that there is between Vessery (35) and the Onyx (32) because for those 3 points, you get +3PS, an EPT and a pretty decent special rule.

If they make Glaives 33, they obsolete the Onyx. If they make them 34, they risk making them uncompetitive compared to Vessery himself. Really the Onyx should have been ~30 points and the Delta ~28. Of course if they had priced them correctly in the first place we probably wouldn't be getting the new Veterans titles.

I assure you, the Glaives will be just fine at 34.