Could be me, but it seems Epics don't get a lot of attention or flight time. Are Epics being fielded or are they relegated to ship storage?
Epic ships
Epic seems to be played more for fun than competitively so I think they generate less bandwidth. Also there are fewer ships and applicable cards which reduces the scope of the conversations. I have only played a bit of Epic but my impression is that Epic ships are balanced well enough against each other but struggle against fighters. I burned down a Raider in my last game using a similar points value of X-wings and B-wings and the fighters didn't take significant damage.
My local group is playing an epic league. While it has been quite fun, there are a lot of holes in the epic rules that we're constantly having to look up.
Well the game is focused around Starfighter combat. So Epic is more of a specialized format, and because of that it doesn't get as much attention as the standard 100 point formats. However Epic is still fun and yes there are some confusion as some of the interactions between pilots, and upgrade cards tend to be rather vague, you can still work it out.
Although while I do like the idea of competitive epic tournaments I do think it should remain handled in a casual approach. Epic should remain as a for fun format and not a serious competitive tournament on national and international levels.
It has been stated that Epic play is more predominant in the casual setting. We might see some more Epic play through various FFG supported scenarios, missions and campaigns.
Imagine a game with an epic ship vs smaller fighter force. Fighter force has to flee the battle field at the opposite end (without taking more than X% casualties) or defeat the Epic ship and its escort.
It has been stated that Epic play is more predominant in the casual setting. We might see some more Epic play through various FFG supported scenarios, missions and campaigns.
Imagine a game with an epic ship vs smaller fighter force. Fighter force has to flee the battle field at the opposite end (without taking more than X% casualties) or defeat the Epic ship and its escort.
It would be more like the Epic ship fleeing from the fighters. They would be the ones trying to reach the end of the mat in order to make the jump to hyperspace.
It has been stated that Epic play is more predominant in the casual setting. We might see some more Epic play through various FFG supported scenarios, missions and campaigns.
Imagine a game with an epic ship vs smaller fighter force. Fighter force has to flee the battle field at the opposite end (without taking more than X% casualties) or defeat the Epic ship and its escort.
It would be more like the Epic ship fleeing from the fighters. They would be the ones trying to reach the end of the mat in order to make the jump to hyperspace.
Either / or hey?
I'm just thinking of those scenes from the X-Wing novels where the Fighters get ambushed by an interdictor or SD and have to scramble.
Could be me, but it seems Epics don't get a lot of attention or flight time. Are Epics being fielded or are they relegated to ship storage?
1. they're not Epic, but Huge ships.
2. they cost Epic points to field
3. and 90% of games are 100 pts dogfights with 0 epic points
4. Epic is cool
5. Play Epic.
To all: word.
In seriousness it is the yewge (howerver you kids are saying it) ships that really turned me on to x-wing. When I first saw that corvette, well let's just say I was inspired. Being a long time fan of the models in particular I remember seeing the originals on display and lamenting their lack of recognition in the world. Then, some twenty odd years later whamo, I have one for Christmas. Kind of cool.
As Rebels continues its run I was curious if even casual play was fielding the big 'nes. Happy to hear they are.
I played 2 epic games (face to face) this week.
And another on vassal.
I got my dose, barely.
Epic is the best way to play X Wing, IMO. It feels much more Star Wars than the tournament format games.
I'm pretty new to the game, but I'll second huge ships being what drew me in. Xwings and ties never particularly interested me... But a rebel corvet trying to escape while it's fighter escort try to hold off waves of zelot tiefighters... Or a Raider spearheading an assault on a terrorist stronghold, ploughing through the fighter screen with smaller vessels in its wake.
That's awesome. That's epic.
Just the idea of the gozanti, turrets blazing, deploying its ties and raming fighters made me grin like a mad man.
It's an interesting duck, epic. My son and I play a fair amount of epic games with just small and large ships (no huge ships) because it lets us put everything on the board and really see which ship will last the longest. Huge ships are beautiful (and can be powerful, especially with ordnance tubes or against opponents who are careless enough to get rammed) but the rules to play them can ve a lot to keep straight and as mentioned before, one huge-o-naut can be overwhelmed pretty quickly by a determined band of ants. I fly casual anyway, but a lot more so with epic.
Personally, I prefer "Cinematic". Technically, Epic is 300 pts where the game is often won in list building. You get one side that goes for the ultra cheesy combo for the win in many cases. Cinematic is just "anything you want to do". It can be 200 pts or 305 pts or even uneven points. Make up a scenario or have one person build both lists for game balance. Play with mostly generics.
To me, Epic is still too competitive in the build phase and whenever I hear about Epic tournaments, it's all about one team that goes for something stupid like as many TLT Y-wings and K-wings as they can fit into a list. That's just not fun for me. I'm more about having fun.
Personally, I prefer "Cinematic". Technically, Epic is 300 pts where the game is often won in list building. You get one side that goes for the ultra cheesy combo for the win in many cases. Cinematic is just "anything you want to do". It can be 200 pts or 305 pts or even uneven points. Make up a scenario or have one person build both lists for game balance. Play with mostly generics.
To me, Epic is still too competitive in the build phase and whenever I hear about Epic tournaments, it's all about one team that goes for something stupid like as many TLT Y-wings and K-wings as they can fit into a list. That's just not fun for me. I'm more about having fun.
Except for TIE Fighters I limit my kit to four ships and many only have two. If I play Epic, and I soooooo wish I had someone down here to play, it would have to be a casual game simply because of the component mix. Of course they can bring their own but spam lists in Epic aren't my cup of tea. With two to four of most ships you can get quite a diversity of squads or some powerful aces or a sprinkling of either. I like your suggestion of running generics only in Epic. I was thinking perhaps one Ace per player if someone really wanted Luke, but otherwise no.
I know I've said this before so bear with me.
To me Star Wars is fast nimble fighters zipping in and around slower larger (really big) ships, and that is Star Wars: X-Wing Epic!
It's fun to play and awesome to see. It is Star Wars at a dinner table near you.
If your meta reaches the critical level where epic is possible (players have enough ships and are interested in change), then merely suggesting an epic game can cause an epic explosion of games. That's what happened in our case and an epic league was born afterwards, with the finals of the season being played right now. So yeah, it's fun and when you see a well configured Raider or corvette, they can truly be terrifying!
Realistic ship restrictions would certainly help Epic in general. The ones created feel like they mostly exist to limit silly levels of TIE swarms.
Realistic ship restrictions would certainly help Epic in general. The ones created feel like they mostly exist to limit silly levels of TIE swarms.
Technically, in Epic you can only have 12 of one ship type. So, max 12 Tie Fighters in any Epic game. Still, I've found that 2 red die epic ships have a hard time hurting Epic ships when they use the Reinforce action. There is also Assault Missiles and Ion Torpedoes that can hurt Tie Swarms.
Realistic ship restrictions would certainly help Epic in general. The ones created feel like they mostly exist to limit silly levels of TIE swarms.
Technically, in Epic you can only have 12 of one ship type. So, max 12 Tie Fighters in any Epic game. Still, I've found that 2 red die epic ships have a hard time hurting Epic ships when they use the Reinforce action. There is also Assault Missiles and Ion Torpedoes that can hurt Tie Swarms.
Right. What I'm saying is that the restriction that exists (12) seems really only relevant to limiting the TIE swarm (which was still a huge problem when Epic was created). It would be better to have a restriction that was more realistic and impacted the rest of the ships types. Unfortunately, it would probably have to be a point limit spent on ships rather than a hard number. Maybe just make it 120-130 for small ships? Large ships are a little harder to blanket rule though and probably just have to stick with the 4 ship restriction.
I wouldn't mind 100 to 120 points for small ships as a limit over a number. But if you chose a number it be chosen for Pilot/Wing man combinations. I don't know squad levels for Star Wars but they are most likely 8 to 12 ships. I think Cat had some numbers on those. She likes to play very large games. But at 120+ points could you get 4 TIE Defenders with upgrades? Too much for a game? What about 130 points of Bombers or Y-Wings. I may like staying with 4 ship max for small. Upgrade them how you wish.
As for big ships I wouldn't mind saying 1 each type of ship. Only 1 x YT, etc...
Are there places where you can find community created scenarios for the huge ships? Campaigns?
I admit I don't like point limits on things.
Are there places where you can find community created scenarios for the huge ships? Campaigns?
Well, there is always the FFG Mission Control website. That is full of all sorts of missions. Not sure on campaigns for epic being there. I do know the epic campaigns that come with the product can be found here:
Mission Control (https://tools.fantasyflightgames.com/xwing/) has several epic missions. Babaganoosh has a link in his sig to his Raider missions, & DagobahDave does awesome stuff, as well. Start by searching Mission Control for those cats.
I admit I don't like point limits on things.
I've actually gotten to where I don't like points as a balancing mechanism in general, and tend to prefer systems with less granular systems that mostly serve to create categorical differences, but that's another argument entirely. The game we have uses points, which is basically what we have to work with. The current rule uses a ship limit, but its not really a functional limit, as at the 300 point recommendation it only effects things that cost less than 25 points; which doesn't stop things like TLT Y-Wing spam and really much of anything that isn't already covered by the Unique rule. It should probably be less than 12, but a ship count limit is just problematic with such varied ship costs.
The right answer is probably some kind of specific, ship specific limit, but I doubt we'll see that. It would be interesting though to see Epic points used a little more. If say, each small or large ship cost an Epic point and you had a limit of 10 or something, it would naturally require points be spent on more expensive stuff. I think the current Epic ships might need to cost 1 epic point less though, just because the former ships are a little on the cheap end to cost 2. Haven't totally thought it through, but I think it would be the best place to create a system that tamed the wild west of 300 points a bit.