New to the game. I want to go with S&V squad. Which one is the must-have of the two?

Everyone needs a StarViper if for nothing else, but autothrusters.

Style of play should dictate your choice here. The Viper is more mobile, while the Hunter is more robust.

They both have some crazy options with the system slot on the Viper, and the crew slot on the Hunter. They are the base of my small S&V collection. I'm trying to decide who will be their third myself!

The viper nets you auto thrusters which are used on a lot of other ships. You only get the system upgrade slot in the viper if you equip the title card and only the 2 aces that come with the viper are able to.

I can't speak to te mist hunter yet as I haven't picked one up yet. Again this is a ship I am more looking at for its upgrade cards.

I can only speak to the mist hunter as I don't have any experience with the starviper, but the mist hunter is barrels of fun.

I've played a couple of games with the aces, and whilst I very possibly over-upgraded the ship it did not disappoint.

Outlaw tech, advanced sensors, and stay on target made the ship very difficult to pin down, and synergized very nicely with 4-Lom's stress passing ability. (I also ran with the cloaking device and the title card, so you can see my point about overloading it.)

I've heard good things about the starviper too, of.course.

I guess the simplest way to boil it down is: Do you plan on flying more fast & agile dogfighters, or more tanky ships?

If you plan on going the fast & agile route, then starviper is for you, but if you're going to play the more slow and tanky ships (particularly ones with crew slots) then the mist hunter is your ship.

Yeah, the more I read, the more I see comparing them as apples and oranges. They complement, rather than compete. It would be probably better to choose between Punisher One and Mist Hunter since they are both crewed ships.

As a squad, I am now considering the Kihraxz and StarViper escorting a crewed ship, so that's where Mist Hunter v Punisher One would be more up to discussion.

I ran StarViper, G-1A, and a y-wing in my last store championship. The StarViper is mostly regarded as not worth taking without the title, so you will almost never see more than one on the table. The large number of green dice give it an edge in the wave 7 era of Twin Laser Turrets, but Xizor's ability doesn't work on TLT damage. That leaves pretty much just Guri.

The G-1A might have the edge in the new wave eight competitions. 3 extra shields and the evade action could well be worth the loss of two green dice and autothrusters.

I think they are both surprisingly good "knife fighters", with lots of low speed maneuvering, and the G-1A can barrel roll with the title, while StarViper has boost and barrel roll innately.

The other factor on which to choose is price. You can get a upgraded generic G-1A for less that the point cost of Guri with no upgrades, and a fully upgraded 4-LOM or Zuckuss should still hit a bit cheaper than a good loadout on Guri.

Depending on the hole in your list you can run a G-1A from about 27-40 points, and Guri should be clocking in at 36-42, or thereabouts.

You really need to decide how you want to fly it. If you want a swarm, then Xixor and a lot of Z-95 are your answer, so StarViper. If you want to get in close and be a tank, then Guri is your girl and you'll need Sensor Jammer, the Autothrusters and Title that come with the StarViper and your preference of EPT (Predator or Lone Wolf are mine depending on what else you add in, but Crackshot is cheap!). Neither StarViper is particularly down and dirty with their tactics... at least for Scum and Villainy.

But if you are looking for the Palob games and action denial to make your Scum and Villainy feel downright dirty, then you want to fly Zuckuss and 4-LOM. Choosing between the two is a bit hard and you'll have to really look at the rest of your squad for that answer.

In the end, out of all of these, I still enjoy flying Guri more. Maybe in time 4-LOM will grow on me. Zuckuss is better in a crew for me. I still think we are missing a card that makes the Mist Hunter shine. And the StarViper suffers from a unique Title when every pilot needs it. Tough choices.

Thanks all for the suggestions and advice!

Do I need the Most Wanted set for doing S&V if I have SV, MH, Kihrazx and Punisher One? I dislike the idea of having to buy two "core" sets.

The Most Wanted pack has a lot of good scum upgrades. I think it's worth your time to pick it up.

I don't have it, and I keep thinking I should get it. If Scum is your faction, it's a good buy.

Style of play should dictate your choice here. The Viper is more mobile, while the Hunter is more robust.

They both have some crazy options with the system slot on the Viper, and the crew slot on the Hunter. They are the base of my small S&V collection. I'm trying to decide who will be their third myself!

Just for the record, the StarViper is MUCH more robust than the Mist Hunter. Same hull, only three fewer shields, but instead of 1 Agility it has three, and it can mount Sensor Jammer and Autothrusters to supplement that, and either get a free focus, or throw off a hit onto a friendly ship, once a round (what generic pilots?!). Even with SJ, the Mist Hunter is going down waaaaaaay quicker.

4LOM is probably the bext MH pilot and the only one I'd seriously consider flying competitively - but he is very, very good. I'd run him stripped right down - VI, Crack Shot, or Adatpability depending on your list, Zuckuss crew, and title. Maaaaaybe FCS, but nothing else. Fly up to someone, TB them into range 1 of you, force them to reroll a defence die for a stress, crack shot to force the hit through if the rest of your list is equal or lower PS, or VI/Adaptability to get equal to them, throw stress at enemy, troll, laugh, watch them frantically try to dodge him or kill him way quicker than his points would suggest.

Otherwise, it's more or less just a B wing with the Evade action, and it will survive an accordingly short length of time against TLTs, Wolf Packs, or... well pretty much anything.

E: and MOst Wanted is pretty much an essential Scum component, though if you don't want to run ANY of the shared ships, you can skip it. But you probably at least want a z blocker, at which point you want it.

Style of play should dictate your choice here. The Viper is more mobile, while the Hunter is more robust.

They both have some crazy options with the system slot on the Viper, and the crew slot on the Hunter. They are the base of my small S&V collection. I'm trying to decide who will be their third myself!

Just for the record, the StarViper is MUCH more robust than the Mist Hunter. Same hull, only three fewer shields, but instead of 1 Agility it has three, and it can mount Sensor Jammer and Autothrusters to supplement that, and either get a free focus, or throw off a hit onto a friendly ship, once a round (what generic pilots?!). Even with SJ, the Mist Hunter is going down waaaaaaay quicker.

4LOM is probably the bext MH pilot and the only one I'd seriously consider flying competitively - but he is very, very good. I'd run him stripped right down - VI, Crack Shot, or Adatpability depending on your list, Zuckuss crew, and title. Maaaaaybe FCS, but nothing else. Fly up to someone, TB them into range 1 of you, force them to reroll a defence die for a stress, crack shot to force the hit through if the rest of your list is equal or lower PS, or VI/Adaptability to get equal to them, throw stress at enemy, troll, laugh, watch them frantically try to dodge him or kill him way quicker than his points would suggest.

Otherwise, it's more or less just a B wing with the Evade action, and it will survive an accordingly short length of time against TLTs, Wolf Packs, or... well pretty much anything.

E: and MOst Wanted is pretty much an essential Scum component, though if you don't want to run ANY of the shared ships, you can skip it. But you probably at least want a z blocker, at which point you want it.

I completely agree with you on the StarViper's defense as it regards to the wave seven TLT meta, an evade action was devalued and anything less than three dice was pretty useless.

However, Thug Lyfe was driven out by Palp Aces and Poe, and U-boats are beating that dead horse. I think TLT use is going down at a similar rate that munitions are increasing, which makes the low agilities less terrible again and re-values both the evade action and raw HP.

StarVipers are going to need to roll extremely well to live through two proton torpedoes (and one could kill them with bad rolls and a direct hit), whereas no matter the roll a direct hit is the only way a G-1A can die in two torpedoes. That is something that is going to matter in the coming months.

Xizor (vi, virago, fire control, thrusters) [37]

Zuckuss (vi, dengar, misthunter, tractorbeam) [33]

2 Blacksun soldiers (feedback arrays) [30]

because why be forced to choose?

maybe a xizor with a backup ship with gonk?

Style of play should dictate your choice here. The Viper is more mobile, while the Hunter is more robust.

They both have some crazy options with the system slot on the Viper, and the crew slot on the Hunter. They are the base of my small S&V collection. I'm trying to decide who will be their third myself!

Just for the record, the StarViper is MUCH more robust than the Mist Hunter. Same hull, only three fewer shields, but instead of 1 Agility it has three, and it can mount Sensor Jammer and Autothrusters to supplement that, and either get a free focus, or throw off a hit onto a friendly ship, once a round (what generic pilots?!). Even with SJ, the Mist Hunter is going down waaaaaaay quicker.

4LOM is probably the bext MH pilot and the only one I'd seriously consider flying competitively - but he is very, very good. I'd run him stripped right down - VI, Crack Shot, or Adatpability depending on your list, Zuckuss crew, and title. Maaaaaybe FCS, but nothing else. Fly up to someone, TB them into range 1 of you, force them to reroll a defence die for a stress, crack shot to force the hit through if the rest of your list is equal or lower PS, or VI/Adaptability to get equal to them, throw stress at enemy, troll, laugh, watch them frantically try to dodge him or kill him way quicker than his points would suggest.

Otherwise, it's more or less just a B wing with the Evade action, and it will survive an accordingly short length of time against TLTs, Wolf Packs, or... well pretty much anything.

E: and MOst Wanted is pretty much an essential Scum component, though if you don't want to run ANY of the shared ships, you can skip it. But you probably at least want a z blocker, at which point you want it.

I completely agree with you on the StarViper's defense as it regards to the wave seven TLT meta, an evade action was devalued and anything less than three dice was pretty useless.

However, Thug Lyfe was driven out by Palp Aces and Poe, and U-boats are beating that dead horse. I think TLT use is going down at a similar rate that munitions are increasing, which makes the low agilities less terrible again and re-values both the evade action and raw HP.

StarVipers are going to need to roll extremely well to live through two proton torpedoes (and one could kill them with bad rolls and a direct hit), whereas no matter the roll a direct hit is the only way a G-1A can die in two torpedoes. That is something that is going to matter in the coming months.

Eh, Sensor Jammer makes it a 3-die attack (can't reroll, won't have focus because spent it to shoot, could chip, but then you're not chipping a blank or another focus), Autothrusters make it a two-die defence. It's not as cut and dried as all that. I'd expect a starviper to survive two torpedoes reasonably easily. Not guaranteed, but then, nor is the G1A, about 1/4 of the deck is crits that can do more than one damage. I'd also expect the StarViper to have a much easier time getting out of arcs.

Thanks for all the discussion! I am pondering forgoing MW on initial investment and running with Core, Kihraxz, MH, StarViper and Punisher One. That has a pretty strong variety of pilots and upgrades as well as ships. It's possible I have a friend who would trade me a second SV, just the ship, and I'd definitely need the cards. That seems like a fair number of combinations to work with and get a feel for S&V fun and game.

If I see need for other upgrades and a swarm of nimble ships, then I'll push for MW.

That sounds like a good plan! As you get practice in, start to take notice of upgrades you have equipped that don't really get used. Once those point total adds up to 12, it is time to slim all your builds down, buckle down and buy most wanted, and stick in the Z-95.

After you've done that, you will have cards and dials for a HWK-290 and Firespray-31 and will get tempted into buying them, and then you are on the road to one of everything!

After you've done that, you will have cards and dials for a HWK-290 and Firespray-31 and will get tempted into buying them, and then you are on the road to one of everything!

Welcome to the Dark Side!

Well, the Firespray is very tempting, since it would provide enough Imperial ships (with Core) to entice my grown sons into trying their hands at it. Bwahaha --coff coff -- haha

At some point you will want a HWK-290 and the Most Wanted set so you can add Palob Godalhi and the Moldy Crow to some lists and see how Scum can feel when doing things down and dirty. Not essential by any means, but it shows one of the tactics Scum does so well.

Some great reading, thanks much!

I've scoured the forums and read up on Most Wanted. As much as I like the look of the Punishing One, it seems they're wearing out their welcome in competitions as I have heard said about Millennium Falcon when it came out. The MW set gives me a lot of pilots and upgrades along with strong versatile ships.

I have a friend who will trade a Viper but no cards. So I get a Viper with cards and I have two to play with for mostly the price of one. I got a decent deal on Kihraxz on eBay, so I will have two of those to spread the Glimmerstim joy. Most Wanted and Core, of course, fill it out, leaving me seven S&V starships and two Imperials. (The T70 is part of trade for Viper.)

I like the look of the Imperial Vets, and there's a Tractor Beam in there! That means I can supply a friend with some ships for demo play. (Or play the DS, what the heck!)

Punishing One's big meta boogyman form is actually the torpedo scout (who'da figured, eh?)

Dengar himself isn't really all that popular

basically, it's the exact opposite of the falcon