In the latest store championship that I played in. (and won) I witnessed the full power of XI-7's. While at the tourney, someone (newer to the game) talked about how Enhanced Arms was better or slaved turrets in an Ackbar list, but truly XI-7's are the no brainer. With that said... and I know the posts after this will be full of anger and "Why would you ever say this?!?!?" But XI-7's are really OP. There is no single card in the game (that isn't a commander) that simply eliminates things as much as XI-7's. Even Intel officer is only one use per attack phase, but XI-7's plus intel officer is just insane. Long range you can get rid of Brace by the end of turn 2, either that or the ship is probably dead. For 7 points in the same slot you can get Slaved Turrets which limits your attacks to one to add a red die, or heavy turbolaser turrets which is like the weaker younger sibling to XI-7. For more points you can put on turbo laser reroute (decent, but you have to use an evade to make it happen), H-9 turbolaser which if you use Home One who cares about that, or Enhanced Arms for 3 more points to add a red die to your sides.

Again, no brainer that XI-7's is the only option to put in the turbolaser spot.

So, is there a fix? Given this is probably mainly for 2-3 ship lists, but that kind of rocks the meta right now. (I know that some lists out there are winning with more than this, but this seems to be the common core)

This is not a knock on the game because I love the game, even more than X-Wing, but I feel like XI-7's may be the most powerful and yet OP card in the game.

While XI7 is too good compared to the other turbolaser upgrades (only HTT is similar, but less often as there are less ships with a brace and no redirect than the other way around) its not that amazing either, though it is a no brainer for its point cost on larger ships it is not a battlechanger on its own. It's the combination with Intel Officer that is the main culprit.

Nebulon-Bs and fighters. Seriously, I love seeing people with XI-7s. Raiders also work.

Basically, they play against ships with a brace and 2 redirects. Which is the large and medium ships.

Consider small ships. Consider a CR90. At best you need 1 less point to destroy a ship with a single shot, or 2 if burning the redirect on 2 attacks. So in one shot 7 vs 8 damage, or potentially 9 vs 10 damage.

Motti is also somewhat of a counter, because the hulls. Another thing is engineering commands to move shields.

It's scary for a lot of fleets, but it's not OP. TRC are often a better investment than XI7s. Depending on the ship.

Xi7s are great in 1v1 ship to ship battle.

I've found a lot of the times though it doesn't assist the rest of the fleet out if you are running a ship swarm, which in that case i'd rather the XX-9s or Enhanced Armaments if i could afford it.

So for example, one of the lists i run is a decked out Assault MC80 with 4 TRC90s and ackbar. So lets say I am focussing an ISD.

Scenario 1
MC80 fires first with xi7. The ISD will brace and/or redirect and lose 1 facing of shields. When the TRC90s go next the ISD will redirect the rest of the dmg to the other hullzones with full shields effectively mitigating as much hull dmg as possible.

Scenario 2
TRC90s go first. They strip most of the shields off the ISD from all the redirecting. MC80 fires next with xi7s and there is no shields anyway to redirect to.

In both cases, xi7s didn't really help much to the rest of the fleet and i would have rather have enhanced armanents or xx-9s. I do acknowledge that in a single combat situation xi7s are pretty brutal and i think FFG took this into account when the card was made and costed accordingly.

XI7 is the only Turbolaser Upgrade you will never be sorry you paid the points for. It works every time. Are some others better in the right situation? Absolutely, but the only time XI7s give no benefit is when all enemy Shields or all enemy Redirect tokens are gone. If you haven't made XI7s work in your favor by then, the problem is you not the XI7s.

XI7 is the only Turbolaser Upgrade you will never be sorry you paid the points for. It works every time. Are some others better in the right situation? Absolutely, but the only time XI7s give no benefit is when all enemy Shields or all enemy Redirect tokens are gone. If you haven't made XI7s work in your favor by then, the problem is you not the XI7s.

The fleet of All Nebs just laughs at you.

XI7 is the only Turbolaser Upgrade you will never be sorry you paid the points for. It works every time. Are some others better in the right situation? Absolutely, but the only time XI7s give no benefit is when all enemy Shields or all enemy Redirect tokens are gone. If you haven't made XI7s work in your favor by then, the problem is you not the XI7s.

The fleet of All Nebs just laughs at you.

Thats because they all have XI7s!

You are correct, of course. I just never see them around here unless I run them, so it never even occurred to me.

XI7 is the only Turbolaser Upgrade you will never be sorry you paid the points for. It works every time. Are some others better in the right situation? Absolutely, but the only time XI7s give no benefit is when all enemy Shields or all enemy Redirect tokens are gone. If you haven't made XI7s work in your favor by then, the problem is you not the XI7s.

The fleet of All Nebs just laughs at you.

Thats because they all have XI7s!

You are correct, of course. I just never see them around here unless I run them, so it never even occurred to me.

Clonisher Raider Swarm!

Last game i played, i played ISD I with Gunnery Team, Overload Pulse, X-17s and the Avenger Title in case the Overload Pulse did Trigger. I know that i should of probably tried it with ISD II rather then I, but I was just experimenting, and i was still dominating the battlefield any how. But with X-17s, I was taking Raiders down in one attack phase, my front arc would take the shields down and do massive hull damage, then I used the side to deal the final blow. Dealing with a Victory Class though, i believe it took two attack phases, and that was with the enemy using Admiral Motti.

Next match I'm for sure going to run ISD II with that load out. I'll be honest I was pretty worried going into that match, being out numbered. The rest of my load out was 2 Victory I's, both with ord teams, one with Expanded launchers and the other with rapid reload, again was just experimenting.

My dads load out was 2 Victory I's, 1 Gladiator and and 2 Raiders

I came out of that match without any losses, came close to losing my ISD though

Try switching tio a VSD II and put overload puse there with XI7s. Just run the ISD II Avenger with XI7s and ECMs. The VSD I can flank the other way.

X-17 .....I own 8. X-17s are such a no brainier, our house games allow only one. Not sure what point value it should be, but I would still take them for 12 points. We now use Heavy Turbo lasers as the alternative. As pointed out, it depends on the ship, but if your throwing a lot of dice X-17s, intel officer, and leading shot takes care of business.

Xi7s are great in 1v1 ship to ship battle.

I don't quite climb aboard the "they're broken" train, but I think the point is to use them in anything but a 1 vs. 1 ship to ship fight; the trick isn't to use one of them at all, but rather to have several scattered throughout your list, all hammering the same arc of the same opposing vessel. They read to me as something that gets much, much, scarier the more of them you've got.

Oh marvelous, this thread again. If there's one stupid thing in this amazing game that gets me fired up... And the perfect time for me to stumble across it too, halfway into beer #2...

Xi7s are great in 1v1 ship to ship battle.

I've found a lot of the times though it doesn't assist the rest of the fleet out if you are running a ship swarm, which in that case i'd rather the XX-9s or Enhanced Armaments if i could afford it.

So for example, one of the lists i run is a decked out Assault MC80 with 4 TRC90s and ackbar. So lets say I am focussing an ISD.

<examples>

The problem here is not that you took XI7 to a multi-ship battle, but that your ships didn't all have them.

XI7's are all or nothing. You need to put them on every ship--or at least every ship you're out to deal damage with--or else take something else. Because if I'm facing a fleet with some XI7 and some not, I'm not burning those redirects on the attack with XI7 in it--I'm burning them on the ones without it so I actually get use out of that token.

But XI-7's are really OP. There is no single card in the game (that isn't a commander) that simply eliminates things as much as XI-7's.

...

I feel like XI-7's may be the most powerful and yet OP card in the game.

I agree with OP: XI7 is significantly overpowered. I wouldn't call it a no-brainer, because there are some conditions to be met to make it worth taking, and doesn't work with all builds... but it's significantly better in almost every case than, for example, XX-9 (one point cheaper) or H9 (2 points more expensive). I mean, look at it:

• it is very useful in a vacuum
• it almost completely neutralizes another, more expensive upgrade (AP)
• it has no counter currently in the game
• it's the second-cheapest card in its upgrade slot

FFG reversed the AP/XI7 ruling based on Wave 1 balance issues (in which, yes, for balance purposes, XI7 should have defeated AP), just in time to be wrong again for Wave 2 (in which I might not take AP even if it did beat XI7).

Personal feeling. If you dont put X17's on ALL your ships then they are not worth the money. If you do, then they are great VALUE for your buck.

The big question is how often do you kill a ship whilst it has lots of shields intact? Corvettes die easily, but big ships tend to be able to get full use out of their shields whether you have X17's or not, just because of how many shots you have to take.

I like Xi7s, but I don't need any more Nebulons, so I'm limited by the economics of not buying unnecessary ships just to get one card (or two, if you count Intel Officer).

Last game i played, i played ISD I with Gunnery Team, Overload Pulse, X-17s and the Avenger Title in case the Overload Pulse did Trigger. I know that i should of probably tried it with ISD II rather then I, but I was just experimenting, and i was still dominating the battlefield any how. But with X-17s, I was taking Raiders down in one attack phase, my front arc would take the shields down and do massive hull damage, then I used the side to deal the final blow. Dealing with a Victory Class though, i believe it took two attack phases, and that was with the enemy using Admiral Motti.

Next match I'm for sure going to run ISD II with that load out. I'll be honest I was pretty worried going into that match, being out numbered. The rest of my load out was 2 Victory I's, both with ord teams, one with Expanded launchers and the other with rapid reload, again was just experimenting.

My dads load out was 2 Victory I's, 1 Gladiator and and 2 Raiders

I came out of that match without any losses, came close to losing my ISD though

You do know that Raiders don't have Redirect, right? So XI-7's net effect when shooting at a Raider is ... zero.

I like Xi7s, but I don't need any more Nebulons, so I'm limited by the economics of not buying unnecessary ships just to get one card (or two, if you count Intel Officer).

I believe the summer kit has a promo one. So if you hit enough stores running that kit, you will never need to buy another neb to get it.

Man this sounds eternally ugly.

Personal feeling. If you dont put X17's on ALL your ships then they are not worth the money. If you do, then they are great VALUE for your buck.

The big question is how often do you kill a ship whilst it has lots of shields intact? Corvettes die easily, but big ships tend to be able to get full use out of their shields whether you have X17's or not, just because of how many shots you have to take.

Truthfully? I took out pretty much every ship with almost all shields intact. The only defense they had was to move shields, so if you want to say that, but that is still murdering a list because of XI-7's, and even so there is only so much you can move per turn with the engineering. But With Home One and Defiance Double, I took out an ISDII in one turn, with XI-7 if I'm throwing a possible damage amount of 14 (6 red dice and two blues for the Assault cruiser) after Home one already went, I am probably dropping at least 8 damage and locking out your Brace (which You may or may not have used ECM already because of the first onslaught). It happens more times than you may think. To the argument of Raiders or Neb B's, Raiders pop in one shot and Neb B's are also glassy, unless you build them defensively, and if you do that then you are hurting the offensive output.

Raiders don't have redirect, but it only has 6 health, and one brace. You lock out the brace and you either make a person reroll or cancel a die. If you have eight damage coming your way it won't matter.

XI7 is the only Turbolaser Upgrade you will never be sorry you paid the points for. It works every time. Are some others better in the right situation? Absolutely, but the only time XI7s give no benefit is when all enemy Shields or all enemy Redirect tokens are gone. If you haven't made XI7s work in your favor by then, the problem is you not the XI7s.

The fleet of All Nebs just laughs at you.

Thats because they all have XI7s!

You are correct, of course. I just never see them around here unless I run them, so it never even occurred to me.

I think that would be a waste personally. . .

XI7 Turbolasers are indeed strong. However, they require certain levels of average damage to be effective in its job.

If you do 2 points of damage they can just brace and redirect.

If you do 3 damage, they can brace and redirect 1 damage and take one in the attacked hull zone. Negating the brace is good here because that is 2 points of damage against the attacked hull zone.

For 4 damage, see 3 damage.

If you do 5 points of damage, they brace down to 3 and take 2 on the attacked hull zone. Without the brace, it is 4 points of damage to the attacked hull zone.

So in closing, you need 3 damage if you can negate the brace, to get the most out of XI7 Turbolasers. You can make do with 2 damage but it is not as effective.

Man I really want XX-9s to be good. But the problem is that by the time the effect triggers the target is likely dead or near dead anyway so it's not terribly relevant. They need to be worth like 4 points.

Man I really want XX-9s to be good. But the problem is that by the time the effect triggers the target is likely dead or near dead anyway so it's not terribly relevant. They need to be worth like 4 points.

XX-9's I have found work on two ships... one more than the other. Salvation Neb, or Avenger ISD.... While your statement rings true about it probably being dead already, I have seen some ISD's bomb on their shot (no Vader) and leave something alive.

I'm not going to knock Xi7's, but they arent the game shattering monsters this thread is making them out to be. For one thing, you need to be putting in at least three damage post brace before they even become useful.

They are the the weapon of choice on ISD's and Mon Cal's. Both ships can toss a ton of dice, and can take full advantage of the Xi7's effects.

They are good choices on AFMK-2 and VSD's, although depending on loadout are far from autoinclude. I'd wager you see more of each without them than with.

You could use them on MC30's, but I would personally only use them on the Torpedo variant. For the scout, I think the consistent floor damage at range provided by TRC's and the ships double evade is the better option.

CR90A's are clearly taking TRC's, even with Ackbar.

Nebulons are more...nebulous. Xi7's on Salv during wave one was a popular choice, but in wave 2 both slaved turrets and TRC's are also viable options, and IMO you are better off running TRC's. Red dice are fickle, and I'd rather do 5 damage pretty reliably where 3 of it gets redirected to another zone, than three and he can only redirect one.

On the other nebulons, xi7s are honestly a mediocre choice unless you roll super hot. Yavaris is tossing three reds at best, because its commanding squads or nav'ing to get away. On a naked neb with conc fire its alright, but again I'd almost rather have trc's for the floor with the understanding I'm probably going to need nav commands to keep my fleet alive after the initial joust. Personal preference though, the one evade makes trcs less inviting.

Of course, it also depends on your opponents fleet. Clearly agaisnt a fleet of nebs or Raiders xi7's are dead points. Conversely, against the popular mc30/trc90 swarm, xi7s are mind bogglingly good.

X17s in a vacuum aren't too bad. I usually run Motti as Imperials (in which case it becomes a 'can you kill me before I kill you' race) or a small ship swarm with Mon Mothma. that outmaneuvers.

The really crippling build(s) involve X17s, Intel Officers, and a nearby Home One with Ackbar for the guaranteed accuracy. I've run against several of these lists and it is pretty brutal. Requires fancy flying.

Don't forget the maneuvers. Don't go straight at 'em. (That was an Admiral Nelson joke, pulling double duty in this thread. Ha, duty)

All that being said though, I usually prefer TRCs for guaranteed sustained damage. Usually a Needa-TRC Avenger or a swarm of TRC90s.

I do put X17s on my MC-30s though. Torpedo version. Intel Officers, Ordinance Experts, and X17s. Nasty.

I don't quite climb aboard the "they're broken" train, but I think the point is to use them in anything but a 1 vs. 1 ship to ship fight; the trick isn't to use one of them at all, but rather to have several scattered throughout your list, all hammering the same arc of the same opposing vessel. They read to me as something that gets much, much, scarier the more of them you've got.

Never said that this wasn't true, it does change the way you would list build and fly though. Realistically most lists would only have 1-2 XI7s, as an imperial player are you really going to have a combination of 2 or more ISDs or VSDs? If so can you get the most effectiveness out of them to target that same arc throughout the game? The same can be said on the rebels, flying that 1-3 guppy list with maybe an mc80? are you going to be able to stay in the same arc or are we doing the 'swirl'?

The problem here is not that you took XI7 to a multi-ship battle, but that your ships didn't all have them.

XI7's are all or nothing. You need to put them on every ship--or at least every ship you're out to deal damage with--or else take something else. Because if I'm facing a fleet with some XI7 and some not, I'm not burning those redirects on the attack with XI7 in it--I'm burning them on the ones without it so I actually get use out of that token.

I am fairly confident that XI7s on all those corvettes is not the most optimum turbolaser upgrade for any situation.

I understand the hype of putting xi7s on everything, its a very powerful effect. Looking at all the top lists in the past store championships, you wont see an xi7 spam because its difficult to build and run an effective fleet like that. Its a good upgrade for the big hitters like ISDs VSDs Mc80s Mc30s and Salvation, so how many of them are you going to take in your list? Not saying that it is not viable, just saying it makes your list a certain archetype which can be beaten by another that does not use XI7s.This is what I believe FFG took into consideration for this upgrade.