The Attack Shuttle Phantom and the TIE Phantom are going to cause confusion as some point....

As long as we're careful to consistently call them "Attack Shuttle" and "TIE Phantom" or simply refer to them by pilot names, I think we'll be okay. But if people start just saying "Phantom"... yeah, that could get to be a problem.

Well with the release of the Mist Hunter there's some an old dog's that got some NEW Tricks.

How about a cloaking Hawk 290. Slip in close and drain those Evade and Focus tokens and agility 4

Talon-bane Cobra is loving the improved survivability and mobility.

Agility 3 Y-Wing and stealth bomber,

bring it.!!!!

Don't forget any changes to the cloaking rules Don't just affect the phantom any more THE ENTIRE SCUM fraction can now benefit from CLOAKING..

The Phantom has gone back into being a ship where, when I see it, I have to worry about it. We're not in an era where you have to specifically build to counter it, which means that my squads are usually not optimized to deal with them. Even more worrisome is that the stigma around the ship means that any player who is bringing one to a tournament is probably someone who is very confident with it. Confident players are always the toughest matchups.

The Phantom has gone back into being a ship where, when I see it, I have to worry about it. We're not in an era where you have to specifically build to counter it, which means that my squads are usually not optimized to deal with them. Even more worrisome is that the stigma around the ship means that any player who is bringing one to a tournament is probably someone who is very confident with it. Confident players are always the toughest matchups.

I wish...I brought one to my very first tournament. Of course I've only played like 3 games before I went to the tournament. Needless to say, I got Stomped, bad. But the Phantom is still my favorite ship, so will probably keep using it just for giggles.

Something useful to think about: the Phantom was never nerfed.

Instead: the system the game uses to handle cloaking was tweaked so that it removed a bit of power from the highest of PS ships that use that system.

At the time, it very much looked like a nerf on the Phantom, as Whisper was the only Phantom pilot we usually see. However, had that change been made today, it would be a "nerf" to N'Dru SuhLac, Prince Xizor, Talonbane Cobra, Face Bonearm, and Zuckuss- among a few others.

I think- at the very least- we should talk about this as a cloaking nerf, rather than a Phantom nerf.

Separately, we should think about ways to tweak the rules to add some power to low-PS ships with access to cloak. In my mind, high PS cloaking ships are in a good place.

What if you had a Modification upgrade that was an inverse of ACD and allowed you to discard your cloak token (but not as a decloak movement!) before you fire? In addition to a high-ish cost (4pt?) It might come with an added caveat like receiving an ion token or skipping your action?

It would be incompatible with ACD because it's in the same slot, and definitely favors low PS activation.

"Cloak-Weapon Interlink" (Modification) 4pt.

When this ship activates during the combat phase, you may replace it's cloak token with an ion token, this is not a decloak maneuver. If you do so you may then attack normally.

The post-nerf phantom is much more interesting to fly against and actually feels like a stealth mechanic, as opposed to feeling like Murphy's Law applied to Schroedinger's cat.

Please leave it as is.

Phildo would disagree he's been wrecking face with it in the vassal league and Team Covenant Open.

I actually hope they DON'T EVER change it back. The Phantom is way more fun to fly now, to be honest. Mostly due to the decloak blocking capabilities. It is just WAY more rewarding to play with now.

It needs more pilots! A named midPS with an EPT and something that synergies with SPA would be great!

Long ago we had a cool phantom pilot creation contest: someone with strong Google-fi should help me out.

The game is finally ready for the Phantom as it was originally intended.

Nope.

It will once again rаpe everything below PS9 (except for Rebel captive Decimator, yep, but that's still easily avoided)

It's great now, and it's tough ow, and IT REQUIRES YOU TO THINK NOW!

and that's how it's meant to be.

Our Store was won by Whisper+RAC >_>

It is ironic that while the original poster wasn't looking Whisper reclaimed her spot at the top as the (hands down) best ship in the game. Kallus essentially removed almost all of the leftover defences from the Phantom Menace (namely PS10). Now high pilot skill is not enough of a good counter to Whisper and you realistically need two PS10 ships to really give her any trouble. Add Palpatine and she is all but invulnerable.

Whisper and Echo are still strong. That said, the generic TIE Phantoms (and most high agility ships with low pilot skill from ALL factions) need something to help boost their health points (hull + shields).

The balance is way off now; generic ships with low health that cost 15+ points are pretty much useless.

Basically, with all the upgrades and pilot abilities that negate green dice or bypass evades completely, we need a FREE "hull reinforcement" upgrade that boosts your hull points until your base/starting health (hull + shields) equal 5 ... but only if your ship has a native pilot skill below PS 6 and a point cost of 15 or more.

Aces can still be strong with less than 5 health/hit points beause they have unique abilities and high enough pilot skill that they should be among the first ships to shoot. Whisper, Soontir, The Inquisitor, Omega Leader, etc. will be fine even with only 3 or 4 native hit points.

Strongly disagree, the theme of light and agile ships is they they become exponential more useful in the hands of skilled pilots. Usually interceptor pilots were aces before they even got into a interceptor. TIE/LNs were build to be deathtraps and use swarm tactics, Y-Wings and X-Wings are build to be more forgiving to bad pilots, those are ships which by all means should work decent enough with generics. Interceptors and other high agility/maneuverability ships are made for people with high pilot skills and I am totally fine with generics falling flat on those ships.

Let's not. I like how it plays now and the fact that I can put a Phantom on the table without my opponent rolling his eyes and making sarcastic comments.

Whisper and Echo are still strong. That said, the generic TIE Phantoms (and most high agility ships with low pilot skill from ALL factions) need something to help boost their health points (hull + shields).

The balance is way off now; generic ships with low health that cost 15+ points are pretty much useless.

Basically, with all the upgrades and pilot abilities that negate green dice or bypass evades completely, we need a FREE "hull reinforcement" upgrade that boosts your hull points until your base/starting health (hull + shields) equal 5 ... but only if your ship has a native pilot skill below PS 6 and a point cost of 15 or more.

Aces can still be strong with less than 5 health/hit points beause they have unique abilities and high enough pilot skill that they should be among the first ships to shoot. Whisper, Soontir, The Inquisitor, Omega Leader, etc. will be fine even with only 3 or 4 native hit points.

Strongly disagree, the theme of light and agile ships is they they become exponential more useful in the hands of skilled pilots. Usually interceptor pilots were aces before they even got into a interceptor. TIE/LNs were build to be deathtraps and use swarm tactics, Y-Wings and X-Wings are build to be more forgiving to bad pilots, those are ships which by all means should work decent enough with generics. Interceptors and other high agility/maneuverability ships are made for people with high pilot skills and I am totally fine with generics falling flat on those ships.

Nope, you DON'T need brains for making a 1-hard turn and then simply waiting to see whether to decloak left right or forward.

Pilot Skill substitutes for player skill in a fashion. And that should not come to pass.

They fall flat on all ships. As long as generics can't hope to drill through the layered acewing defences and shoot once in a blue moon due to repositioning "with exact knowledge' of enemy movements they will. Whatever the ship, they WILL.

The nerf is a pain in the ass style nerf. I wish it was a little more middle of the road. The decloak telegraphs your moves way too much imo and actually takes the game skill away from the phantom player.

I wish it was something like setting the decloak position at the same time as you set the dial and if its blocked, you don't get to decloak.

VI Whisper is eager to eat your whole list again, so please denerf. We don't need variety in the meta anyway.

So how will Talonbane Cobra enjoy a pre-nerf Cloaking Device?

VI Whisper is eager to eat your whole list again, so please denerf. We don't need variety in the meta anyway.

So how will Talonbane Cobra enjoy a pre-nerf Cloaking Device?

He'd absolutely love it, but without ACD it's the action economy isn't there.

VI Whisper is eager to eat your whole list again, so please denerf. We don't need variety in the meta anyway.

So how will Talonbane Cobra enjoy a pre-nerf Cloaking Device?

once. in the best case...

I actually hope they DON'T EVER change it back. The Phantom is way more fun to fly now, to be honest. Mostly due to the decloak blocking capabilities. It is just WAY more rewarding to play with now.

I also play a lot of phantoms, and I never saw this as a "nerf". My first reaction to it was "so I can decloak while Ion'ed? sweet!". Blocking someone with a decloak, or just getting out of the way of your OGP are very satisfying.

The nerf is a pain in the ass style nerf. I wish it was a little more middle of the road. The decloak telegraphs your moves way too much imo and actually takes the game skill away from the phantom player.

I wish it was something like setting the decloak position at the same time as you set the dial and if its blocked, you don't get to decloak.

An extra decloak dial would have been really cool as a mechanic, if they had considered it from the beginning.

Ok so, a nerf or denerf discussion. Is that nerf herding?

Ok so, a nerf or denerf discussion. Is that nerf herding?

What kind of moof milker makes a nerf herder joke?

Judjing by amounts of poop flying it's Banta herding

Bantas are filthy animals ©

The problem with the Phantom is that it's the most extreme rock/paper/scissors ship in the game, especially with ACD. It is a brutal, yet fragile ship. There are some very hard counters to it. In other words, if you have one of the counters, you can crush it. If you don't have one of those counters, you can get crushed by it. The problem that I have with the Phantom is that if you don't have one of the things that can counter the Phantom, that one ship can destroy your entire list. What this means is that it narrows the field of viable lists down to an even smaller number of lists.