But it is nearly twice the cost of many of the other middle of the road ships, for the same(or less) PS. Sure it has a higher attack than almost every other ship, the only other one that has 4 attack also has 4 times the hull/shields and 4 attack dice for a mere 3 points more for the cheapest and lowest PS one or 8 points for the most expensive one.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree it is a good ship, the points are just off a bit, and not by much.

Maybe there needs to be a PS cap, something along the lines of a no ship may have a PS, after upgrades, of higher than a PS of 9.

What are you talking about? The VCX is at least 10 points more than a Phantom. As for like ships I pair the phantom with E-wings and Star Vipers and it is still cheaper than the TIE Defender even after the title that lowers to point score.

Now if you are talking about point difference from highest to lowest well the TIE Bomber got that as it spends 10 points for a increase of pilot skill by 4. The Tie Phantom is only 7 points to increase the pilot skill by 4.

Thanks Marine. I'm getting tired of being told someone responded to me only to find out it's someone quote pyramiding something I said days ago again.

Well, to be fair, you have no input on player skill which, you know, matters. So for all we know, only very good players might be taking them and winning. The only statement you can make from that is that "Phantoms are present in tournaments" and that "They have chances to make it to the final table". So, you know, they can be really good.

Um... yes? That was literally the point of my post, as a response to the original post:

Now it's kind of the white elephant of the empire's forces, it's impress traits weighed down by its high cost and extreme fragility making it something of a novelty that is never seen in the top rounds of serious competitive play.

(Emphasis mine)

There was discussion about the Phantom appearing at Worlds Top 16 and other reports of it appearing in the cut for Store Champs, and the counterargument (from Princezilla) was that he had been to four tournaments and didn't see Phantoms do well there. So I provided data on the Store Championship scene as a whole using available resources.

Yeah, its starting to seem like my region regional meta is just extremely hostile to the ship because my first hand experience is radically different from what other people are reporting here.

I am not sure if it has been said here or not, 9 pages is a lot to scroll through...

I love the Phantom, it is a bad ass but unforgiving as has been mentioned. To allow it to decloak after you see where your opponent is going is way too powerful. VI Echo can slide that 2 bank template where ever she wants to be out of arc, barrel roll to ensure she is. I would love it if they bought back the old phantom rules for reasons previously stated. I just think it's just too powerful to decloak after low PS ships have moved.

I would have liked to have seen Decloak after move, in the Perform Action step. It's not an action, but it's done in the Perform Action step. (So you don't get to do with Advanced Sensors, or if you're blocked, or if you land on a rock.)

On the plus side, you could fire when cloaked, at -2 red dice, and you could Decloak through (but not onto) obstacles.

VI is a requirement for every ship pilot skill 5-7 because the middling pilot skill is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It is too low to out shoot anyone in a faceoff and too low to be a blocker. Not only does it get the worst of both worlds it also increases the point value which means you end up taking less ships thus giving your opponent more MOV per kill.

I almost never run VI on PS5-6 ships (I've never put it on Guri for instance, and it sees way less use on brobots since crackshot came out). VI is really most used and best on PS7-8 ships to get them to PS9-10. If you put it on a PS5-6 you're still lower PS than most of the aces you're going to run into. Though the advent of PS8 aces like Omega Leader and the Inquisitor might make it worthwhile to VI up from 6-8. Still wouldn't use it on a PS5

What are you talking about? The VCX is at least 10 points more than a Phantom. As for like ships I pair the phantom with E-wings and Star Vipers and it is still cheaper than the TIE Defender even after the title that lowers to point score.

Now if you are talking about point difference from highest to lowest well the TIE Bomber got that as it spends 10 points for a increase of pilot skill by 4. The Tie Phantom is only 7 points to increase the pilot skill by 4.

Sorry, the cheapest VCX is only 3 points more than the most expensive phantom. How do you truncate posts? It auto quotes everything instead of just what I want to.

What are you talking about? The VCX is at least 10 points more than a Phantom. As for like ships I pair the phantom with E-wings and Star Vipers and it is still cheaper than the TIE Defender even after the title that lowers to point score.

Now if you are talking about point difference from highest to lowest well the TIE Bomber got that as it spends 10 points for a increase of pilot skill by 4. The Tie Phantom is only 7 points to increase the pilot skill by 4.

Sorry, the cheapest VCX is only 3 points more than the most expensive phantom. How do you truncate posts? It auto quotes everything instead of just what I want to.

I know that was off topic to this thread, but I wanted to share. Sorry.

One wonders if the OP is trying to be cagey about powering up Scum and their Illicit Cloaking Device...

One wonders if the OP is trying to be cagey about powering up Scum and their Illicit Cloaking Device...

The biggest problem with the S&V illicit cloaking device is that players want to play it like a TIE Phantom. THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG APPROACH TO IT.

I actually see why the Devs put in the force decloak and discard mechanic at the end. Not only are illicit upgrades supposed to be limited use (with discarding of self damaging effects) but the cloaking device is supposed to be used in a manner that is completely different from TIE Phantoms, as an attack maneuver instead of a +2 agility defensive upgrade. If it fails well you should have no problem doing a 2 straight or a 2 barrel roll. If it succeeds you were going to do a decloak move anyways and you get to use it for another turn. So you should have an average of 2 uses per game with it unlike glitterstim which is a 1 time use only. Even if it does fail on the first roll you get 1 decloak move (and 1 evade with SPA).

I said this before but the post is a couple of pages back so again when it comes to cloaking actions

• Imperials are Romulans: they have the best cloaking device and so they stay cloaked all the time until they attack with superior weaponry then they re cloak to avoid return fire.
• Scum are Klingons: They don't cloak until right before they get ready to attack they cloak then decloak and close at point blank range blasting apart their enemies at point blank range.
• Rebels are Federation: Due to some plot that good guys don't hide they depend entirely on shields to save them thus have the best shield regeneration instead.

Either way for scum you use it as a decloak attack maneuver that will work at least 1 maybe twice and if lucky three or more times.

One wonders if the OP is trying to be cagey about powering up Scum and their Illicit Cloaking Device...

The biggest problem with the S&V illicit cloaking device is that players want to play it like a TIE Phantom. THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG APPROACH TO IT.

I actually see why the Devs put in the force decloak and discard mechanic at the end. Not only are illicit upgrades supposed to be limited use (with discarding of self damaging effects) but the cloaking device is supposed to be used for a free move. If it fails well you should have no problem doing a 2 straight or a 2 barrel roll. If it succeeds you were going to do a decloak move anyways and you get to use it for another turn. So you should have an average of 2 uses per game with it unlike glitterstim which is a 1 time use only. Even if it does fail on the first roll you get 1 decloak move (and 1 evade with SPA).

I said this before but the post is a couple of pages back so again when it comes to cloaking actions

• Imperials are Romulans: they have the best cloaking device and so they stay cloaked all the time until they attack with superior weaponry then they re cloak to avoid return fire.
• Scum are Klingons: They don't cloak until right before they get ready to attack they cloak then decloak and close at point blank range blasting apart their enemies at point blank range.
• Rebels are Federation: Due to some plot that good guys don't hide they depend entirely on shields to save them thus have the best shield regeneration instead.

Either way for scum you use it as a decloak attack maneuver that will work at least 1 maybe twice and if lucky three or more times.

The thing about decloaking is that even pre-nerf it wasn't OP really. The problem is that FFG made an excellent game mechanic and then instantly broke it with ACD. Non-TIE Phantoms that can cloak don't get ACD so they only get one turn of super busted, "lol I get to see where you move and then go whenever the hell I want, git gud" and then from that point on they have to choose between firing and cloaking.

Like how it was kind of cool to have a fat turret with a cannon slot and barrel roll to incentivize getting things in arc just for some smarmy ****** bag to allow you to fire your HLC as a turret.

It'd be like if Advanced SLAM allowed you to perform a SLAM action after an attack.

So had ACD just never existed, we wouldn't have needed a nerf to decloak.

The cloak mechanic is well designed, even pre-nerf. The idea was that you'd gain a bunch of defense and could save it for a super boost/barrel roll /at the cost of not being able to fire/. When you then allowed someone to just cloak and fire anyways every turn with a 4 point upgrade, that breaks the game.

I would argue that turrets actually do take skill to fly effectively. maximizing effectiveness of range, dealing with autothrusters and the fact that if enough shots come into you, you're toast. Good turret lists are difficult to fly.

LOL. Please, don't even try.

Well, his point isn't entirely unreasonable, although he has confused something: Good turret lists are easy to play, thats why they are good, its the "bad" turret lists that need a lot of pre planning and general skill.

-Someone who started the game playing Blaster Turret HWKs

What are you talking about? The VCX is at least 10 points more than a Phantom. As for like ships I pair the phantom with E-wings and Star Vipers and it is still cheaper than the TIE Defender even after the title that lowers to point score.

Now if you are talking about point difference from highest to lowest well the TIE Bomber got that as it spends 10 points for a increase of pilot skill by 4. The Tie Phantom is only 7 points to increase the pilot skill by 4.

Sorry, the cheapest VCX is only 3 points more than the most expensive phantom. How do you truncate posts? It auto quotes everything instead of just what I want to.

The VCX is point costed very "interestingly" I think comparing it to a Phantom is kinda ridiculous though because those to ships are radically different in use. A better, more "apples to apples" comparison is a VCX to a Decimator. Both have the same agility and total hit points,(the VCX has a better shield to hull ratio though) and while the Decimator has a 3 attack PWT, the VCX has a 4 attack primary out of front and back(granted, when a shuttle is docked, but still) and a Turret upgrade slot, so I feel they are pretty evenly matched offensively. Additionally, I would argue the VCX has a better dial overall. Yet, the most expensive VCX, Hera, has a great ability and impressive upgrade bar and ps7 but only costs 40 points. 40pts will get you a ps3 Decimator with no pilot ability at all and a far less impressive upgrade bar. I really feel something is off with the VCX point cost.

I know that was off topic to this thread, but I wanted to share. Sorry.

That rear arc costs 20 points and no VCX pilot can take an EPT. RAC has a great ability and can take an EPT.

I think the real question is if we should call the TIE Phantom the TIE/ph now that the ghost/phantom are out.

I think the real question is if we should call the TIE Phantom the TIE/ph now that the ghost/phantom are out.

No.

Make the rebels call their ship something else, the Empire does not compromise.

I think the real question is if we should call the TIE Phantom the TIE/ph now that the ghost/phantom are out.

No.

Make the terrorists call their insurgent ship something else, the Empire does not compromise.

This kind of talk is pretty creepy in our current political climate

I think the real question is if we should call the TIE Phantom the TIE/ph now that the ghost/phantom are out.

No.

Make the terrorists call their insurgent ship something else, the Empire does not compromise.

This kind of talk is pretty creepy in our current political climate

Ah yeah, I often forget that the internet does not share the slightly warped sense of humour of my social circle. Apologies. I'll edit.

I think the real question is if we should call the TIE Phantom the TIE/ph now that the ghost/phantom are out.

No.

Make the rebels call their ship something else, the Empire does not compromise.

But...we DO call it the TIE/ph...

Still waiting on that TIE/ag FFG!

I think the real question is if we should call the TIE Phantom the TIE/ph now that the ghost/phantom are out.

No.

Make the rebels call their ship something else, the Empire does not compromise.

The problem is that they can't be to bright, they rebelled on the glorious Empire after all.

My 2 cents...please don't kill me. My view on the Phantom. Till December I never played x wing in a LGS, only with friends and avoiding power creep. Whisper + VI + Advanced Cloack were too much OP. But generics were quite playable. And funny. As they are quite special ships and not ep 4-6 ships we only played them once in a while. And so I think that a pre nerf PS 3 pilot is OK in 200+ pts games.

The Advanced Cloacking Device is one oupgrade card I do not enjoy much. With no named pilots and no Advanced Cloack, pre nerf wors fine.

What are you talking about? The VCX is at least 10 points more than a Phantom. As for like ships I pair the phantom with E-wings and Star Vipers and it is still cheaper than the TIE Defender even after the title that lowers to point score.

Now if you are talking about point difference from highest to lowest well the TIE Bomber got that as it spends 10 points for a increase of pilot skill by 4. The Tie Phantom is only 7 points to increase the pilot skill by 4.

Sorry, the cheapest VCX is only 3 points more than the most expensive phantom. How do you truncate posts? It auto quotes everything instead of just what I want to.

The VCX is point costed very "interestingly" I think comparing it to a Phantom is kinda ridiculous though because those to ships are radically different in use. A better, more "apples to apples" comparison is a VCX to a Decimator. Both have the same agility and total hit points,(the VCX has a better shield to hull ratio though) and while the Decimator has a 3 attack PWT, the VCX has a 4 attack primary out of front and back(granted, when a shuttle is docked, but still) and a Turret upgrade slot, so I feel they are pretty evenly matched offensively. Additionally, I would argue the VCX has a better dial overall. Yet, the most expensive VCX, Hera, has a great ability and impressive upgrade bar and ps7 but only costs 40 points. 40pts will get you a ps3 Decimator with no pilot ability at all and a far less impressive upgrade bar. I really feel something is off with the VCX point cost.

I know that was off topic to this thread, but I wanted to share. Sorry.

Nah, you only need to spend two points to shoot a Flechette Missile out the special arc...

I would argue that turrets actually do take skill to fly effectively. maximizing effectiveness of range, dealing with autothrusters and the fact that if enough shots come into you, you're toast. Good turret lists are difficult to fly.

LOL. Please, don't even try.

Well, his point isn't entirely unreasonable, although he has confused something: Good turret lists are easy to play, thats why they are good, its the "bad" turret lists that need a lot of pre planning and general skill.

-Someone who started the game playing Blaster Turret HWKs

"Maximizing effectiveness of range" on something that either fires or not sounds kinda weird.

Now tell me that there has been one individual that has been playing a Falcon trying to keep Fel in arc at range 2 just to keep auto thrusters from engaging. Sorry but I uh, have doubts about that. Most of the time it is "evade. Ptl focus that turns into evade. Then c3Po, and maybe something else that will minimize damage before the ship becomes a space toast.

Unless you play Dash with the occasional barrel roll, most of the ships that carry a turret are tanky targets that fire back, nothing more. Pretending THAT to be difficult, well.. Sorry, can't accept it.

Nah, you only need to spend two points to shoot a Flechette Missile out the special arc...

Or spend 6-8points for even "better" for two even "better" torps out the back arc.