I'm trying, desperately, to come up with a list using 1 or 2 VSDs and having a lot of trouble. GSDs and ISDs have speed 3 and do whatever it is you want them to do better.

I love the look of them and I love the idea of, say, an ISD/double VSD build (if only thematically), but I just can't make anything work where I don't feel like something else would be better. Please advise.

here is a crazy VSD list with Demolisher with a Rhymerball. My play style is to move my VSDs slow and control my squadrons from long range. I might be wasting ozzel but I can move my demolisher 90 degrees and speed 1-4 any turn. Once a ship does break the long range bubble I can move demolisher in to say hello. if the other player chooses to stay away then there is nothing I can do.

I have looked at doing it with a single ISD with expanded hanger bays but 2 VSDs give me another activation. It comes down to choices for me.

DemoBall
Author: Modise

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

[ flagship ] Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

7 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 63 points)
1 IG-88 ( 21 points)
1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points)
1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

They are good for the slow roll of squadrons. In fact they are great at it:

VSD I - Motti, Boosted Comms

VSD I - Ruthless strategist, quad laser turrets, warlord (flight controller carrier is an alternative here)

Glad I - Wuluff

Rhymer,

Darth

Soontir

Jumpmaster

Tie Advanced

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

I'm trying to hammer out a 3 VSD Tarkin list with about a dozen squadrons, a mix of Bombers and Advanceds led by Rhymer. Ruthless Strategists, Defense Liaisons and Boosted Comms allows them to push the bombers out pretty far but also use those 5 hull points can be used to chew up enemy squadrons with Ruthless Strategists.

Once those Imperial Assault Carriers come into play, it'll just be disgusting. More free tokens plus Bomber Command Center will just be. . .ouch.

So, I think you have your answer here, 3 Rhymerball lists using VSDs for support. All three are different in their own ways. Pretty cool.

They work very well as a carrier or a cheaper gunship. The biggest weakness is the maneuverability, but that's not the worst weakness. I always think about it this way - they have the same hull as an MC80. They actually have a similar amount of dice from their best arc. The issue is that an MC80 can broadside and slowly circle while using its best dice, but the VSD has to go straight at its target, so it's either going to ram or pass its target. If you manage to swing past an MC80's broadside, you fly right into another one.

VSDs work fine as cheap gunships (VSD-Is as close to naked as possible) or cost-effective carriers (VSD-I + Boosted Comms/Expanded Hangars + perhaps Flight Controllers). As gunships, prioritize Navigate to improve your yaw. As carriers, Squadrons as much as possible.

I'll be damned if I can figure out why I'd want to run VSD-IIs though*, but I feel the same way about Gladiator-IIs so that's just how it is.

* +12 points for replace black dice with blue and ordnance slot with ion cannons is way too expensive is the short version.

The only time I've run a VSD II is as a support ship to trigger OLP with an Avenger ISD. It's still a hardy gunship, but has a lower damage output and, as you said, costs an additional 12 points. With Medium range being so short, you're rarely going to be in situations where you'll be rolling Blue dice and not Black. And given how much more damaging black dice can be, I prefer the cheaper VSD I.

VSDs work fine as cheap gunships (VSD-Is as close to naked as possible) or cost-effective carriers (VSD-I + Boosted Comms/Expanded Hangars + perhaps Flight Controllers). As gunships, prioritize Navigate to improve your yaw. As carriers, Squadrons as much as possible.

I'll be damned if I can figure out why I'd want to run VSD-IIs though*, but I feel the same way about Gladiator-IIs so that's just how it is.

* +12 points for replace black dice with blue and ordnance slot with ion cannons is way too expensive is the short version.

And to think, there was a time when we were told we were Stupid to run Vic-Is instead of Vic-IIs because as least Vic-IIs would "Get into Range".

So, I think you have your answer here, 3 Rhymerball lists using VSDs for support. All three are different in their own ways. Pretty cool.

I'm still coming around to the Rhymerball (see my other thread, actually called "Baby's First Rhymerball"). Once I get my head around those I may try to use the VSDs for activation advantage. Will save this thread. Thanks guys!

With Medium range being so short, you're rarely going to be in situations where you'll be rolling Blue dice and not Black. And given how much more damaging black dice can be, I prefer the cheaper VSD I.

My sentiments precisely.

And to think, there was a time when we were told we were Stupid to run Vic-Is instead of Vic-IIs because as least Vic-IIs would "Get into Range".

Yeah, back when I started Armada it seemed the heights of stupidity to not run a VSD-II because those blue dice would clearly get into range more frequently than black dice. Then I noticed how short the medium range band is compared to the short and long range bands (definitely not +100% longer, more like +50% longer than just short) and started watching for when my VSD-IIs got blue dice when they wouldn't have gotten black dice. It did happen sometimes but fairly rarely. I've been rolling VSD-Is ever since and I don't regret it.

To the OP:

The main benefits of VSD-Is are raw stats. They get a lot of dice out ofa lot of arcs and have a lot of shields and hull for their cost (better in all regards there than the same value for the points in ISDs). Their main downside is they're slow and have the worst turning in the game. Loading upgrades onto them doesn't tend to significantly improve their offensive value but it does water down their value for the points. What they need is ships to watch their flanks to keep enemies from casually avoiding them. Take those points you would've spent on VSD upgrades and invest them towards more ships and you'll see it does better.

I'd also recommend thinking of VSD-Is as long-ranged red-dice ships (note the 3 out the front and 2 out the sides) that get extremely mean when enemies get too close. You can set them up for black dice shenanigans here and there (in my experience about once per game, sometimes 2-3 times and sometimes 0 times) but the black dice are primarily a deterrent against ships getting too close. I definitely DO NOT recommend equipping any kind of black dice upgrades as you won't get nearly as much use out of them on a VSD than you would on a Gladiator. The only exception might be some Assault Proton Torpedoes or Assault Concussion Missiles on a VSD in a Screed fleet because you're already rolling Screed, might as well go all the way.

Has anyone tried to make a long range Imperial fleet using VSD’s? I have this vague idea that maybe VSD1’s with slaved turrets and (or not) intel officers in a Vader fleet could possibly work.

They would do comparable damage per shot to Ackbar AF2’s, with the intel officers to offset the gunnery teams. The VSD’s then also have the brutal close range attacks if they ever get to use them.

No idea if it would work, haven’t tried it, haven’t even written a list for it…..but it’s on the list of things to try.

On the topic of VSD1 vs VSD2, I noticed that when using a VSD2 there were few times I got blue dice that I wouldn’t also have got black, but when using a VSD1 there were plenty of times when I was just out of black range so would have got blue……..I think it comes down to how badly the opposing fleet wants to avoid any given range band.

I've mentioned it a few times, but I have seen one of our local guys have a lot of Success with Triple Vic-Is with Slaved Turrets and a 134pr Rhymer Ball.

I've mentioned it a few times, but I have seen one of our local guys have a lot of Success with Triple Vic-Is with Slaved Turrets and a 134pr Rhymer Ball.

Any carrier upgrades or just rocking and rolling and blowing up whatever is in front of them?

They are good for the slow roll of squadrons. In fact they are great at it:

VSD I - Motti, Boosted Comms

VSD I - Ruthless strategist, quad laser turrets, warlord (flight controller carrier is an alternative here)

Glad I - Wuluff

Rhymer,

Darth

Soontir

Jumpmaster

Tie Advanced

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

I only have 4 bombers (including Rhymer) so that won't work exactly but otherwise looks good!

I've mentioned it a few times, but I have seen one of our local guys have a lot of Success with Triple Vic-Is with Slaved Turrets and a 134pr Rhymer Ball.

Any carrier upgrades or just rocking and rolling and blowing up whatever is in front of them?

Flight Controllers on 2 of them. Boosted Comms on the One that slightly trails (was a MottiBoat)

But other than that. Slaved Turrets. Full 134pt Rhymer Ball.

If there's points left over, knock yourself out

VSD=Carrier

I've mentioned it a few times, but I have seen one of our local guys have a lot of Success with Triple Vic-Is with Slaved Turrets and a 134pr Rhymer Ball.

Any carrier upgrades or just rocking and rolling and blowing up whatever is in front of them?

Flight Controllers on 2 of them. Boosted Comms on the One that slightly trails (was a MottiBoat)

But other than that. Slaved Turrets. Full 134pt Rhymer Ball.

If there's points left over, knock yourself out

I went for Ruthless Strategists myself. That guaranteed damage when you have a swarm of 5 Hull squadrons is pretty reliable. The only drawback is that you can't fling the bombers out too far, or they'll be out of RS range.

I've mentioned it a few times, but I have seen one of our local guys have a lot of Success with Triple Vic-Is with Slaved Turrets and a 134pr Rhymer Ball.

Any carrier upgrades or just rocking and rolling and blowing up whatever is in front of them?

Flight Controllers on 2 of them. Boosted Comms on the One that slightly trails (was a MottiBoat)

But other than that. Slaved Turrets. Full 134pt Rhymer Ball.

If there's points left over, knock yourself out

I went for Ruthless Strategists myself. That guaranteed damage when you have a swarm of 5 Hull squadrons is pretty reliable. The only drawback is that you can't fling the bombers out too far, or they'll be out of RS range.

James (our guy) Tried it up between Ruthless Strats and Flight Controllers, and in the end, went with Flight Controllers - ONLY because he was using Slaved Turrets...

If you switched-gunned over to XI-7s or HTTs - something which doesn't cost you that second shot - he believed that Ruthless Strats were just as useful. But only on a secondary shot out of a side arc to clear some enemies, while your front arc was still concentrating on the enemy ships.

So its an either/or system

I only have 4 bombers (including Rhymer) so that won't work exactly but otherwise looks good!

They are good for the slow roll of squadrons. In fact they are great at it:

VSD I - Motti, Boosted Comms

VSD I - Ruthless strategist, quad laser turrets, warlord (flight controller carrier is an alternative here)

Glad I - Wuluff

Rhymer,

Darth

Soontir

Jumpmaster

Tie Advanced

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

Tie Bomber

I only have 4 bombers (including Rhymer) so that won't work exactly but otherwise looks good!

You can substitute a Firespray for 2 bombers, that is if you have that expansion.

And if you don't mind loosing the activation war...

Ozzel's Last Stand

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Contested Outpost

Navigation Objective: Minefields

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)

- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)

- Relentless ( 3 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Corrupter ( 5 points)

- Admiral Chiraneau ( 10 points)

- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

1 Darth Vader ( 21 points)

1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)

1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)

2 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 18 points)

1 Dengar ( 20 points)

1 Boba Fett ( 26 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords