TAP vs A-Wing, as which has the superior Procket builds.

Interestingly, both have the ability to throw 5 Prockets into a list, or 4 with buffs.

And I use Interestingly quite wrongly, but I digress.

Often.

Anywho, we first have the low PS variants:

P rototype P ilots + P rockets + G uidance C hips

vs

S einar T est P ilots + T itle + P rockets + G uidance C hips

​ So, on this level, we can actually strike out that which is identical in the builds, which leaves us with Prototype vs Seinar + Title, which boils down to:

• ​The differences in Dials
• ​The differences in Pilot Skill
• ​The differences in Actions

​On the Dials:

Both are capable of the same blinding speed, unless stressed.

Both are capable of green turns/banks/forwards.

​ Speed 1 turns/banks are extremely powerful, particularly when combined with actions, as they let you maneuver more nimbly than your opponent, thus taking control of the center of the 'whorl of combat'.

Speed 2 turns/banks are less potent, but more utilitarian: when what you need is a 3, you'll happily make do with a 2.

​However, until such a time as we're dealing with a self-stressing upgrade, the Greens are mostly identical to the Whites.

The TAP has one more maneuver than the A-Wing (two more if you exclude reds), and so I'm giving it the win on the 5 Procket level.

On the Pilot Skill:

Normally, I'd be screaming all day about how 1 is often superior to 2.
​However, we really don't want to be shooting last in an Alpha-Strike meta. 2 wins, for now.

​On the Actions:

TAP with the Title gets to do any of the actions of the A-Wing, with two more bonuses.

​It comes with Barrel Roll, which is amazing when you add it to the 1 and 3 turns (making them .25 and 3.75, respectively?).

The Evade action is tied to the Target Lock action. The fact that you can't when you can't TL isn't so bad as to outweigh the awesomeness of being able to do Both when you can.

​ G reen S quadron P ilot + P ush the L imit + A daptability + P roton R ockets

vs

B aron of the E mpire + P ush the L imit + P rockets

Why yes, you can swap Rage and Autothrusters for Push the Limit, if you wish. It works better vs higher PS pilots than you, and gives you Autothrusters for the entirety of the game. Whoozah!

Once the GSP has Adaptability, it matches the PS of the BotE, but with the added benefit of being able to be PS 2 if that is somehow better for the match-up.

Moreover, at this level, both ships now have the self-stressing mechanics that render those Greens as relevant.

So, how does a ship behave after unloading a pile of stinking white death on an opponent?

The A-Wing's greens are more versatile for chasing, but if you're looking to keep at the knife-fighting / blocking game, the Barons' greens win out.

Amusingly, the Baron of the Empire likes Push the Limit far better than the A-Wing does, due to how well Boost and Barrel Roll stack with that 1 turn; an option that TIE Interceptors wish they could execute more often.

Posted early as a save: not quite finished with it yet

Done , save for some quick formatting edits

My two cents :

Prockets on interceptors benefit from the Rage EPT, as you can quite easily 5-forward your way out of the fight after you used your rocket (and, of course, is less expensive than PtL).
Last week I played with this squadron, which was quite efficient and really nice to fly :


-Green Squadron Veteran, Test pilot, Push the Limits, Crack Shot, Prockets, Guidance Chips X2
-Green Squadron Veteran, Test pilot,Rage, Crack Shot, Prockets, Guidance Chips X2

playing an epic match in two weeks and my opponent has landed on 7 crack rage A's with prockets and chimps.... I am scared.

Okay, but I can't see myself designing a ship around the proton rocket without being able to defend itself in combat afterwords. Plus with the low PS, forcing the r1 procket can be a challenge.

Green Squad + Procket + PTL + AT i+ VI s 28 points.

Baron of the Empire + procket + PTL + AT + Title = 28 points

Now, you have a PS 4/5 procket delivery system. The GS has the ability to move farther, the Baron is better at knife fighting. So the dials are pretty equal.

The Green Squad is going to have a focus/target lock, while the Baron will have focus/target lock evade.

Pretty much the same.

I'm running 5 of the PS2 Procket TAPs this weekend to test them out, along with 3 beside a light Vessery. I'm drawn more to the Sienars than the Barons, but I'll see how much that PS bid makes a difference I guess. In theory, with good positioning, I can nuke a Ghost in a turn, and still have shots on the next target.

(Also, kudos on the formatting. It read like my old aero physics notes. Ah academic nostalgia...)

I think the title gives the edge to the TAP. It just gives them more utility.

it's not even a contest, really

Jake Farrel just beats everyone

PTL Rage Tycho also gets pretty close, even if he doesn't have the PS 9 (vi) + barrel-roll/boost option

I am really enjoying the conversations that are emerging in the wake of Guidance Chips. Cards we have had good two years are getting some time to shine.

Not a big Rebel fan, but I love A Wings. I agree that the TAP title makes for a pretty big leg up. This would be a slick fight.

it's not even a contest, really

Jake Farrel just beats everyone

PTL Rage Tycho also gets pretty close, even if he doesn't have the PS 9 (vi) + barrel-roll/boost option

Or bring Juking Jake and Anger Management Tycho to the same fight... fun on the frikkin' bun.

it's not even a contest, really

Jake Farrel just beats everyone

PTL Rage Tycho also gets pretty close, even if he doesn't have the PS 9 (vi) + barrel-roll/boost option

The OP was talking generics.

But Valen Rudor gives Jake a run for his money in Procket delivery.

it's not even a contest, really

Jake Farrel just beats everyone

PTL Rage Tycho also gets pretty close, even if he doesn't have the PS 9 (vi) + barrel-roll/boost option

The OP was talking generics.

But Valen Rudor gives Jake a run for his money in Procket delivery.

Haha, funny if you see a high PS Valen get shot at only to boost or barrel roll into R1.

Yeah. Valen w/ PTL, Title, ATs and a Procket in the tube sitting at range 1 or 2 is a really hard target for anything PS 6+ to shoot at.

I would like to throw another contender into the ring.

The good old fashioned tie advanced :

TIE Advanced: Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)

Proton Rockets (3)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/x1 (0)

Sensor Jammer or accuracy corrector (0)

Cons: This ship has a worse dial than either the tie adv prototype or the awing; no 1 hard turn and less green moves overall. The tie advanced also has less action economy than the tie adv prototype with title.

Pros: plus 1 health when compared with the tie adv prototype and a wing, with same number of green dice. The free system slot is the key difference and the reason why I like the tie advanced. It can be an annoying blocker ship after the rockets have been fired. Sensor jammer makes it way more survivable than it should be, and accuracy corrector let's you free up your action for positional barrel rolling or save focus for defense.

Any thoughts ?

The thing about the V1 title is that it allows you to targetlock and evade when at range 2-3, and then when you close to range 1 you focus.

Double modified prockets is, "having your pants pulled down and having a pie thrown in your face so that you'll be forever shamed" tier. I've used Prockets on Vader before and I try not to fire them unless I have both focus and target lock. When you fire without TL sometimes you get hit hit focus blank blank, meh.

Haven't flown either squad, but I suspect the 5 test pilots is just better in general for Prockets because you're rewarded defensively for setting up double modified shots.

So is it official are people finally gonna stop calling the fo an a-wing equivalent?

The best named Procket Delivery Platform is VI Vader with Engine Upgrade and a strong 3+ point initiative bid.

All that matters is having higher pilot skill and boosting. Valen Rudor? Pfffft.

I would like to throw another contender into the ring.

The good old fashioned tie advanced :

TIE Advanced: Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)

Proton Rockets (3)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/x1 (0)

Sensor Jammer or accuracy corrector (0)

Cons: This ship has a worse dial than either the tie adv prototype or the awing; no 1 hard turn and less green moves overall. The tie advanced also has less action economy than the tie adv prototype with title.

Pros: plus 1 health when compared with the tie adv prototype and a wing, with same number of green dice. The free system slot is the key difference and the reason why I like the tie advanced. It can be an annoying blocker ship after the rockets have been fired. Sensor jammer makes it way more survivable than it should be, and accuracy corrector let's you free up your action for positional barrel rolling or save focus for defense.

Any thoughts ?

Well, that +1 health comes at a cost of -1 ship, as it's in the low PS bracket where the 5s are running around.

Still, that 5 hp means it won't be 1-shot by an enemy Proton Torpedo...

So, not out of contention, just not as similar as the other two

So is it official are people finally gonna stop calling the fo an a-wing equivalent?

Chardaan says hello

I've never been in the FO = A-Wing crowd, as the FO has much greater differences in dial and upgrade opportunity.

You haven't but quite a few others have just because it was four hit points and two attack.

You haven't but quite a few others have just because it was four hit points and two attack.

Presumably also the 3 agility, or else the Z-95 is in that area as well.

Besides, the TAP can move every bit as fast as the A-Wing, if neither are stressed at the time, and FASTER if given PtL.

It's a TIE Interceptor with fewer attack.

I find that for the Imperials there really are 2 A Wing equivalents. The TAP is similar to an A Wing carrying missiles while the Tie/FO is the Imperial analogue to a Chardaan Refit A. The nice thing is that neither ship is exactly the same as the A and therefore occupies it's own unique design space.

I would like to throw another contender into the ring.

The good old fashioned tie advanced :

TIE Advanced: Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)

Proton Rockets (3)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/x1 (0)

Sensor Jammer or accuracy corrector (0)

Cons: This ship has a worse dial than either the tie adv prototype or the awing; no 1 hard turn and less green moves overall. The tie advanced also has less action economy than the tie adv prototype with title.

Pros: plus 1 health when compared with the tie adv prototype and a wing, with same number of green dice. The free system slot is the key difference and the reason why I like the tie advanced. It can be an annoying blocker ship after the rockets have been fired. Sensor jammer makes it way more survivable than it should be, and accuracy corrector let's you free up your action for positional barrel rolling or save focus for defense.

Any thoughts ?

I've run a lot of AC Tempest since the Raider launched. More so than any other single ship or pilot since then, actually. They're a good, solid little ship, but they have disadvantages (which may be the reason I picked up five TAPs).

Their action economy isn't actually bad. Considering you're never taking a token for an offensive action thanks to AC, you can hold your focus for defence, or take an evade. You could also barrel roll if you have an unhindered shot, or even K-turn and still get your offensive modifiers.

I've run a lot of them with Clusters or Prockets. I'd never run them without AC, especially with Clusters. Sensor Jammer is fine for defense, but their damage is rubbish without AC, and their success with Clusters without AC is just as bad.

Cluster AC Tempests are great against low agility targets. It's not uncommon for me to be able to rip down a Y-wing in a turn, or take a Decimator to within an inch of it's life (I once OTK'd a Chirpy, and it took everything in my power to stop me from dancing in front of my distraught opponent who had been scoffing at the Advanced beforehand).

The problem is, even with Chips and AC, they're not that effective against high agility targets. You might squeeze one or two damage in, but you're ditching an ace to squeeze in ordnance as it is. If they're only going to be mildly more effective than your two dice primary, it's not a useful trade. I'll take two Tempests, OL, and Vader Lite over four Tempests with Clusters. The Tempests can chase the low agility targets anyway, and reliably plink damage in. Late game, they'll fall apart without something more potent by their side.

On the occasions I've run them with prockets, the point saving over Clusters means you can squeeze in Colzet and a Homing Missile (which actually does help). It makes for a dangerous R1 option, and some potential against aces, but not a reliable one. I haven't tried them with Chips yet, however (In fact, I found 3xAC Tempest, AC Colzet, and Wampa to be more effective than any ordnance build with them, once large ships became either less prevalant, or were backed by big aces, like Palp/Vader/Fel).

The prockets are certainly more effective than the clusters, however, the dial means they often don't get into range of the target you want to hurt most: arc dodgers. The dial options just aren't there, like they are on the A-wing or TAP.

Edit: wow, went on a rant, apparently.

tl;dr

Advanced aren't competition to the TAP or A-wing for carrying ordnance, but they're still solid little ships.

Oh I love AC advanced they do the same damage as a three attack ship with focus but you can take a defensive action as well.

TAP's got the edge vs turrets or if you want to take prokets.

AC gives them a sort of soft PTL, which makes them a surprising pain in the ass. It doesn't do a great deal against Fel with Palpatine on the board though.

For the sake of science, I may run both of these Procket lists at the weekend. I was going to give the 5 TAPs a first run out anyway, I might as well try the As directly after against the same build and see how differently it fairs out.

I'm choosing to necro this thread because it was the last great theory post I could find started by DraconPyrothayan.

Where is he? I realized I hadn't seen his (always great) stuff recently, and then I checked his profile and it shows he hasn't logged on since April 21... four months ago.

I considered his threads must-reads on this forum, and I miss his contributions.

Come back, Dracon!