Since Green Knight was kind enough to give us an extension of wave 3 ships for Vassal, I thought I might start the discussion on what rules to apply to those ships. My intent here is to come up with a standard we as a community can use for Vassal while we wait for the actual release. Here's my first draft.

First off, let's start with the confirmed.

Toryn Farr

Officer

Rebels only

7 points

When another friendly ship or squadron at distance 1-3 is attacking, it may re-roll one blue die.

Agent Kallus

Officer

Imperial only

3 points

When attacking a unique squadron, add 1 die of any color to your attack pool

Bomber Command Center

Fleet Support

8 points

When a squadron with Bomber at distance 1-5 is attacking a ship, it may re-roll 1 die.

Repair Crews

Fleet Support

4 points

On Repair Command: Instead of spending engineering points, you may discard 1 damage card from 1 friendly ship at distance 1-2.

Comms Net

Fleet Support

2 points

After the Reveal Command Dial Step, you may remove 1 command token from this ship to assign aa matching token to another friendly ship at distance 1-5.

Now the speculation, starting with the movement chart for both ships and their variants:

Manuever Chart

Speed 1) II

Speed 2) I II

Speed 3) I I II

And now the ships:

Gozanti Assault Carriers

Points: 24

Front Armament: 1 blue

Side Armament: 1 blue

Rear Armament: -

Anti-Squadron: 1 blue

Hull: 3

Front Shields: 1

Side Shields: 1

Rear Shields: 1

Command: 1

Squadron: 2

Engineering: 2

Upgrades: Title, Officer, Fleet Support

Gozanti Cruisers

Points: 21

Front Armament: 1 blue

Side Armament: 1 blue

Rear Armament: -

Anti-Squadron: 1 black

Hull: 3

Front Shields: 1

Side Shields: 1

Rear Shields: 1

Command: 1

Squadron: 1

Engineering: 2

Upgrades: Title, Officer, Fleet Support

GR-75 Combat Retrofits

Points: 22

Front Armament: 1 blue

Side Armament: -

Rear Armament: -

Anti-Squadron: 1 blue

Hull: 3

Front Shields: 1

Side Shields: 1

Rear Shields: 1

Command: 1

Squadron: 2

Engineering: 2

Upgrades: Title, Officer, Fleet Support

GR-75 Transports

Points: 18

Front Armament: -

Side Armament: -

Rear Armament: -

Anti-Squadron: 1 black

Hull: 3

Front Shields: 1

Side Shields: 1

Rear Shields: 1

Command: 1

Squadron: 1

Engineering: 2

Upgrades: Title, Officer, Fleet Support

I bounced this in private messages with a few other folks before posting. Below is my reasoning for points. If it seems a little disjointed with the rest of the post, that's because it's just a copy and paste job.

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We clearly know what the Gozanti class Assault carriers and the GR-75 Combat Retrofits are bringing us as far as stats. We also have a good feel for the other variants, but no confirmation of command, squadron, and engineering values. I have a feeling we'll see the Gozantis Cruisers and the GR-75 transports have a squadron command of only 1. That gives them a niche for making them dedicated to things like repair crews that distinguishes from the squadron centric versions.

Now for points. I'm going to use the GR-75 Combat Retrofits as the baseline and compare it to the CR90B. First of all, we can deduct around 9 points based on the AFIIa vs AFIIb precedent (+1 squad, -1 blue front and -1 blue squad from A to B), which is roughly comparable. I'll count the squad dice difference as dropping a blue off the side. However, since we all mostly agree the AFIIa is a bit overpriced, let's call it a 7 point drop.

We then drop a further blue from the front and side. I'd call that another 6 points. Then there are the reduced shields and hull. I'd give it 5 points for the reduced shields and 3 points for the hull. Finally, I'm going to consider the scatter token an upgrade from the redirect and evade, and charge 4 points for it. I'm going to ignore the upgrade slots and speed/manuever since I think they're about a wash.

That puts my estimate at 22 points. From there, the GR-75 Transports would probably be 18 (-1 squad, black AS, -1 blue front). I would put the Gozantis Assault Carriers at 24 (+1 blue sides) and the Gozanti Cruisers at 21 (-1 squad, black AS, +1 blue sides). These are a little narrower in value compared to the costing from the CR90 to account for the diminishing value of such lightly armed craft. For example, the Gozanti Assault Carriers should cost 25 if I go my valuation of 3 per blue die, but it didn't feel like it was worth 3 more points than the GR-75 equivalent.

Are you going to ask GK to update the extension, then? Currently only the GR75 Combat Retrofit and Gozanti Assault Carrier are in Vassal, costed at 22 and 25, respectively.

I hadn't been near a computer to actually open the extension. I had assumed it did not have points, since the main game does not. I'm sure we can coordinate

I originally had the Gozanti Assault Carriers at 25, but bumped them down a point. I'm seeing more and more estimates putting it at 25. I just didn't think it was really worth 3 more points than the GR-75. I also had the Transports at 17, but opted to bump them up since I didn't think they were worth that much less. Please, someone argue with me. I want to see if we can come to an agreement as a community for the next few months.

AFI to AFII is loss of a sqadron and gain on a dice. Whats the gap there?

The difference between the AFI and AFII is 9 pts.

As an Imperial player I can a test that that the upgrade from black to blue is about 2 points and black to red is 3 points and that's pretty much all I can gather from imperial ships...

AFI to AFII is loss of a sqadron and gain on a dice. Whats the gap there?

Loss of 1 Squadron to gain 3 Dice in Total. One Blue Front, One Blue Rear, One Blue Anti-Squadron.

*snip*

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Just a recap,

We get 8 cards in each expansion, and 4 of them are for the new upgrade slot. 2 of them are titles, 1 of them is a crew, and it says we get a new commander and with that we fill the 8th's card slot.

Now, knowing FFG, 3 of the brand new upgrade cards will be the same across each expansion. That means each expansion will get one card that the other doesn't have, and you need to buy the other ship to get it. So, it is likely we have 5 support cards, and we already know 3 of them. Bomber Command Center, Comm's Net, and Repair Crews.

We know both of the crew, and can barely see the first of each of the 2 titles, with no hints at each of the commanders.

I say that we have more information on the contents of this wave than the others!

So, we have 16 new cards, 2 are admirals, 2 are crew, 4 are titles, and 8 are the new support slots.

As I thought of before, we probably get 3 of those 8 which are reprints across each set, and then the 4th one of each is different (so you need to buy both for that one) giving us different types of support cards for that new slot.

Just thought I would throw this info in!

AFI to AFII is loss of a sqadron and gain on a dice. Whats the gap there?

Loss of 1 Squadron to gain 3 Dice in Total. One Blue Front, One Blue Rear, One Blue Anti-Squadron.

I'm sure I had a groundbreaking point when I asked this, but I cant remember what it was. I've got flu, leave me be.

That's if they don't include existing cards, Flight controllers, extended hangers, and projection experts spring to mind

That's if they don't include existing cards, Flight controllers, extended hangers, and projection experts spring to mind

they better be new cards if thats all I'm getting!

they better be new cards if thats all I'm getting!

I know its terribly crass of me, but I read this, and the first response that formulated in my mind was:

"Or What? You'll Cry?!"

they better be new cards if thats all I'm getting!

I know its terribly crass of me, but I read this, and the first response that formulated in my mind was:

"Or What? You'll Cry?!"

yes...yes I will...

they better be new cards if thats all I'm getting!

I know its terribly crass of me, but I read this, and the first response that formulated in my mind was:

"Or What? You'll Cry?!"

yes...yes I will...

So that's why storm troopers can't hit anything. Too much salt in their goggles.

That's if they don't include existing cards, Flight controllers, extended hangers, and projection experts spring to mind

Highly unlikely. In fact, theres only one slot in both expansions where this would even be possible. Considering there are 8 upgrade cards per pack;

They have confirmed that there will be 4 fleet support upgrades in both packs. These may be redundant across the packs, but by definition we haven't seen their like before. (4/8 cards accounted for)

Unless they veer off wildly from established precedent, there will be two titles in each. (6/8)

We know each has a faction specific officer (7/8)

We know at least the rebels are getting a new commander. (8/8 reb, still 7/8 imps)

Now, I think its highly probable that the last unaccounted slot is an imp commander, but I suppose we'll see.

On reread, my comment is more appropriate at looking at the cost difference between the two GR75's than Gozantis

Neb Support is 6 points less than Neb Escort. The difference is a better squadron dice and a squadron command. So I'd suggest a difference of at least 3 points is appropriate.

I highly doubt we will see cards in the expansions that the flotillas cannot use themselves, so no flight controllers etc.

A bit busy ATM, but following this thread.

A bit busy ATM, but following this thread.

Awesome. I'll update as we go.

Version 0.3.0 has been added (includes the above suggested stats for the flotillas).

Changes include:

- added Gozanti Cruisers

- added Gr-75 Transports

- points cost tweaked

- speed increased to 3 and yaw table altered drastically

- some other minor tweaks

A new version can be found here

Key changes:

- some game text removed (copyright issues)

- ship bases cleaned up

- references to unknown cards added