I got in it for the miniatures. And I continue to overbuy, not for the upgrades, but for the miniatures. I love playing the game, but we use the ships for the RPG as well. Why just last night, our Edge of the Empire group managed to steal a Z-95 Headhunter from a Bounty Hunter. I pulled out a Black Sun Z-95 mini, and the Corellian Pilot player picked it up and started "pew, pew, pewing" for the rest of the encounter.

well Decipher made the ultimate one back in the 90s.

I got a whole display of them in one go, but to be honest, long-term magic was more interesting.

Besides that, you can replace all the magic cards with proxies as well, that's not an issue.

The basics here are simply that while deck or list building you follow similar principles of searching combinations, upgrades, etc and try to fit it within your budget. At the same time, moving the minis is still totally key to making best use of your cards. So X-Wings is in many ways a hybrid, in business model as well as you indeed buy minis just to gain the upgrade cards. The randomness of card drawing get removed (mostly), you still looking constantly for expansions of your cards for tournament play, card combos are key for your list, while at the same time the list building is not that different from most mini games (I guess).

Coming from Imperial Assault, I got into this game for four reasons:

1) FFG.

2) Everyone said it was fun and fast to play and explain.

3) The miniatures look awesome.

4) The ability to customize the ships with various, sundry, diverse, and different upgrades was bugatti.

Miniatards Game?

Definitely a miniatures game. It just seems like the only thing people talk about is the cards, because they're much easier to talk about online.

That and the stats for each ship come from the cards... But really like VS pointed out, how much difference is there between discussing which options in the codex to take vs which cards to take? Because as GrimmyV points out, you could replace every card with a book and the game would play the same.

Darkcloak, I'm afraid I'm going to have to suspend your license to coin any new x-wing terms for the foreseeable future.

Definitely a miniatures game. It just seems like the only thing people talk about is the cards, because they're much easier to talk about online.

That and the stats for each ship come from the cards... But really like VS pointed out, how much difference is there between discussing which options in the codex to take vs which cards to take? Because as GrimmyV points out, you could replace every card with a book and the game would play the same.

Honestly, that doesn't even register in my brain. The codex model is woefully outdated. Almost every worthwhile minis game in the last decade has put model stats on cards. X-Wing is actually one of the few that have stats on the base as well, fwiw.

I'm a bit of a card game nut. I don't have the funds to buy into card games, but I love learning about new systems, what the meta is, and tempt myself with buying a meta deck without ever actually going through with it. I get a completely different experience from card games than I do from X-Wing. X-Wing does not feel much like a card game to me. I feel it falls squarely in the miniatures realm.

I played the old Wizards of the Coast Star Wars Miniatures Game. That game had stat cards for each miniature to tell you its attack, defense, force points, cost, etc. I see X-Wing just like that except that the stat cards are customizable and you can use upgrade cards to modify your stat card.

The biggest difference I see between miniatures games and card games is that miniatures games typically start with all of your figures/units/creatures on the field and you have to move them around in the right way. Typically, dice are used as a randomizing mechanic so that each battle is not a forgone conclusion. One of the refreshing things about miniatures games is that you can usually see the whole field at one time. You know which units your opponent brought and what abilities they have.

Card games require you to draw into the right cards (which is where the randomization comes from) and then require you to make the right choices with those cards. Having a secret hand of cards and a face-down deck is a huge part of the game as you and your opponent try to figure out which cards you probably have in your decks and try to gauge whether those cards are in-hand or not.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. Definitely not a card game. It just has new abilities printed on cards so you can update your model's stat card.

It's a miniature game.

Even if you didn't use the miniature and used the cardboard ship bases you're still moving and measuring arcs. Setting up starting positions, check range, etc... This is absolutely a miniature game and that isn't even the best part. It is a Star Wars miniatures game with really awesome pre-painted miniatures.

That said, the squad portion is a deck building game, and a very complex and in depth one. You can choose not to use the cards or only some; you can get highly competitive or just throw some cards together and see how it works.

So really is it two games in one. Deck building and miniatures.

Well in my humble opinion at least.

I get where you are coming from, but I think the analogy to a deck builder is forced. A main part of deck builders is streamlining a deck to defeat the random draw. Multiples of cards, tutors, extra draw, etc. In X-Wing, the only random card effect is a damage deck, which you cannot customize (outside of deciding which deck to use). Every other card in X-Wing is imply there as a reference. Just because there are more options doesn't make it anymore a card game than, for example, warmachine or hordes. In fact, you can argue that it is even less a card game than those, since the stats are on the base of the ship. The interactions occur between ships, and the cards are just there to describe what a ship can do. List building in X-Wing is an entirely different animal than putting together a good Netrunner deck (as an example).

Darkcloak, I'm afraid I'm going to have to suspend your license to coin any new x-wing terms for the foreseeable future.

Caridictures game?

Obviously you all haven't seen star trek attack wing if you say this about x-wing.

When I win, a miniatures game. When I lose, it's definitely a dice game.

It's a miniature game.

Even if you didn't use the miniature and used the cardboard ship bases you're still moving and measuring arcs. Setting up starting positions, check range, etc... This is absolutely a miniature game and that isn't even the best part. It is a Star Wars miniatures game with really awesome pre-painted miniatures.

That said, the squad portion is a deck building game, and a very complex and in depth one. You can choose not to use the cards or only some; you can get highly competitive or just throw some cards together and see how it works.

So really is it two games in one. Deck building and miniatures.

Well in my humble opinion at least.

I get where you are coming from, but I think the analogy to a deck builder is forced. A main part of deck builders is streamlining a deck to defeat the random draw. Multiples of cards, tutors, extra draw, etc. In X-Wing, the only random card effect is a damage deck, which you cannot customize (outside of deciding which deck to use). Every other card in X-Wing is imply there as a reference. Just because there are more options doesn't make it anymore a card game than, for example, warmachine or hordes. In fact, you can argue that it is even less a card game than those, since the stats are on the base of the ship. The interactions occur between ships, and the cards are just there to describe what a ship can do. List building in X-Wing is an entirely different animal than putting together a good Netrunner deck (as an example).

I would agree with your point but I don't know what it should be called. Let's for a moment separate the pilot cards and their associated miniatures for a moment. This is the miniature game at it's hears. The pilot abilities and upgrades as a separate part of the Squad Building. The Squad Pilot Upgrades List Building is separate and distinct part of the game for many people. Some have said they spend hours working on their lists and that is their favorite part. So I'll concede that deck building isn't the best descriptive label but one that most recognized the intent. They may be intertwined and one may fully depend on the other but they are often discussed as two separate and distinct parts of this game; which is where I got my thought.

So still two games in one. It is at its heart a miniature game. But there is also a big component that is the cards. The pilot and upgrade card list building that goes beyond choosing what ships to field.

I love this games as most veterans here do, but if I was a rookie I would just toss my hands in the air and play the ships I love most and forget trying to learn the combos until i had months with the core game play.

I don't understand why this is such a foreign concept. I like flying lists that perform well at tournaments, but If I want to fly Tie fighters because I like Tie fighters, I'M GONNA FLY TIE FIGHTERS!

The same is true of most minis games though. 40k spends quite a bit of time picking different models and defining their wargear. Infinity takes this to another level with multiple visor options for figures. Malifaux has an upgrade system and while Warmachine has little unit customization, the choice of attachment models or just list building in general is its own beast.

The codex model is woefully outdated.

Perhaps, but you could convert X-Wing a codex system and the game play would remain the same. The cards are not playing pieces just a way to track what upgrades you've put on your ships.

Quite honestly the only thing X-Wing has in common with card games is that the cards themselves have a value. People will buy a expansion for the sake of the card rather than the model. But that's really only because of how FFG markets the game and the rules for tournament play.

But there is also a big component that is the cards. The pilot and upgrade card list building that goes beyond choosing what ships to field.

But that's really true of other miniature games. It's just that you have a lot less freedom.

I'm looking to start playing 40k Kill Team, in that game I can mix and match my models and give them different upgrades. The only difference is in Kill Team you print out a list with all your options listed out, rather than have cards on the table. But there's little difference in the process, other than again X-Wing has much more freedom. Because once I glue a heavy bolter to a SM, I pretty much always have to use him as a marine with a heavy bolter.

I love this games as most veterans here do, but if I was a rookie I would just toss my hands in the air and play the ships I love most and forget trying to learn the combos until i had months with the core game play.

I don't understand why this is such a foreign concept. I like flying lists that perform well at tournaments, but If I want to fly Tie fighters because I like Tie fighters, I'M GONNA FLY TIE FIGHTERS!

This is honestly one of the best games for this because most ships are quite viable. For new players its generally pretty easy to just ask "well, what one ship do you really want to fly?" give them a good build with it and let them go from there.

It's a CCG played with miniatures (with flight path/dice rolling being the primary nods towards being a miniature wargame).

The timing rules for abilities and combos are straight out of card games. The miniatures themselves aren't even integral gameplay components, just the base with its printed firing arcs.

But there is also a big component that is the cards. The pilot and upgrade card list building that goes beyond choosing what ships to field.

But that's really true of other miniature games. It's just that you have a lot less freedom.

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't true in other games. I hope I didn't say that? I'm not sure where you are going with that line of thought.

I was addressing the topic. Is this a miniature game or a card game? I think it is a bit of both. One fairly easy and straight forward and one with a lot of depth that can get very complex. Together they can result in a simple game or one of mind boggling interactions, interruptions, synergies, etc...

Definitely a miniatures game, we can't even buy cards from FFG if we wanted to.

All games have rules, this one puts them on cards for our convenience.

It's a miniatures game. I got into X-Wing because of the sweet miniatures. The gameplay was also cool too, but I didn't really learn the gameplay until after I had already bought-in.

I'm a bit of a card game nut. I don't have the funds to buy into card games, but I love learning about new systems, what the meta is, and tempt myself with buying a meta deck without ever actually going through with it. I get a completely different experience from card games than I do from X-Wing. X-Wing does not feel much like a card game to me. I feel it falls squarely in the miniatures realm.

I played the old Wizards of the Coast Star Wars Miniatures Game. That game had stat cards for each miniature to tell you its attack, defense, force points, cost, etc. I see X-Wing just like that except that the stat cards are customizable and you can use upgrade cards to modify your stat card.

The biggest difference I see between miniatures games and card games is that miniatures games typically start with all of your figures/units/creatures on the field and you have to move them around in the right way. Typically, dice are used as a randomizing mechanic so that each battle is not a forgone conclusion. One of the refreshing things about miniatures games is that you can usually see the whole field at one time. You know which units your opponent brought and what abilities they have.

Card games require you to draw into the right cards (which is where the randomization comes from) and then require you to make the right choices with those cards. Having a secret hand of cards and a face-down deck is a huge part of the game as you and your opponent try to figure out which cards you probably have in your decks and try to gauge whether those cards are in-hand or not.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. Definitely not a card game. It just has new abilities printed on cards so you can update your model's stat card.

You convinced me to change my opinion. While there are quite a lot of shared mechanics, the real core mechanic of card games is drawing cards. And that utterly and completely is not in X-Wing (imho damage cards do not count / are a very minor card game factor). So yeah, modern mini-game and thus using cards as marker for upgrades, stats and such.

Yeah... lots o' cards. Binders are stacking....

I bet someone could design a card game using the cards from X-wing and it would be fun.

This is a Mini's game with cards that largely replace rulebooks. Think WH40K. Mini's are mini's but all the info has to go somewhere on what everything can do. I like how Xwing does it a lot more.

Both and neither at the same time.

As per the rules, you need the miniatures and the cards. But, with regard to actually playing the game, the models are strictly decorative and provide no information that is not otherwise represented and the cards exist only as a reference (just like a rule book for many other games). The cards and, to a more limited extent, tge models make the game easier to play, but neither are necessary.