How do you guys feel about it? The card combo thing and the MAX-Meta gets tedious, but it is also how the game was designed to work...

I think most would agree that the glorious models are why people buy the product. But then they find the cards almost overwhelming and can (for some people) kinda kill the fun of other less fiddly miniatures games.

is the basic play experiance getting to fat or has it become far more advanced?

I love this games as most veterans here do, but if I was a rookie I would just toss my hands in the air and play the ships I love most and forget trying to learn the combos until i had months with the core game play. Many of the arguments on this forum come from the card-talk.

PEW-Boom?

I still consider myself a rookie since I only play my roommates. The cards can be overwhelming at first but they aren't so overwhelming that it ruins the fun. Of course, none of us are using Meta build (one guy is using 3 A-wings, the other a hodge podge of imperial builds, and I prefer X-wings and the Falcon) so we may be the exception.

Yes.

If it wasn't a good miniatures game it wouldn't matter about the cards. Because the miniatures are good, in time, people will become card carrying miniature players. To be honest, I wonder what percentage of people buy a core set and a Millenium Falcon and play some games without ever setting foot inside a "gaming store" or coming to the FFG forums?

Yes.

For sure... but what is your flavor? The models and the cool base game with some upgrades... or the Meta-card-shop?

It's a miniatures and cards game.

Also, the only way someone could possibly be intimidated by the variety of cards is if he's a fresh player looking to dive straight into competitive play. There is zero pressure outside of that, and proxying solves any potential issues with card acquisition.

In short, I don't see a problem.

A miniatures game, but it takes a lot from card game design.

It's a miniatures game because the size, position, and orientation of the miniature figures matters. The cards are there to support the miniatures, and have no direct significance themselves. The cards are really just cheat-sheets to make it easy to remember and convey what the stats and abilities of each miniature are.

I think most would agree that the glorious models are why people buy the product. But then they find the cards almost overwhelming and can (for some people) kinda kill the fun of other less fiddly miniatures games.

I'd want to see some kind of evidence for the assumption that "most" buy the game for the models and find the idea of upgrades overwhelming, and I'd definitely want to see evidence that other tabletop minis games are less fiddly.

Basically, X-wing uses one model where other games might use many. As I understand it, your warcaster in Hordes is represented by a single model that always has the same package of abilities (or nearly the same). In 40k you buy a package of units, glue a particular weapon onto each one, and never change it--so even though there might be a range of options in the rules for each model, you have to physically swap out the model if you want to try a different option.

But in X-wing, you buy one T-65 and it might be Wedge, Wes, Luke, Biggs, or a nameless rookie, and additionally you can outfit each pilot differently. The price you pay for that flexibility and potential diversity is that the game has a lot of options to internalize.

It's a miniatures game in which the army/list building is done via cards. It's neither one nor the other; the gameplay is almost pure minis/dice, whilst the list building is entirely cards or proxies thereof.

Miniature Card game. The majority of the games components are small cards...

If it wasn't a good miniatures game it wouldn't matter about the cards. Because the miniatures are good, in time, people will become card carrying miniature players. To be honest, I wonder what percentage of people buy a core set and a Millenium Falcon and play some games without ever setting foot inside a "gaming store" or coming to the FFG forums?

More than half the sales come from that place... i would bet my entire collection on that.

Gamers that treat this like a job are few and most come here to argue the meta-talk.

While, on one hand I think it's a little bit of a shame that some expansions are much more desirable for their cards than for their ships, I do like the fact that you can build a ship in different ways to get different performances out of a single miniatur. It also provides the game with an easy mechanism by which the designers can tweak an overlooked ship's performance. Of course if you're very competitive some builds can be considered the ONLY build for a ship...

Yes.

For sure... but what is your flavor? The models and the cool base game with some upgrades... or the Meta-card-shop?

It's really both.

I mean i love the ships, i love doing missions etc, but it's nice having the cards, having that library of potential upgrades.

If it wasn't a good miniatures game it wouldn't matter about the cards. Because the miniatures are good, in time, people will become card carrying miniature players. To be honest, I wonder what percentage of people buy a core set and a Millenium Falcon and play some games without ever setting foot inside a "gaming store" or coming to the FFG forums?

I would hope a lot. I still believe there are good people out there in the world.

It's magic with a playfield and without (mostly) stupid card luck. And awesome minis and star wars. You come for the later, you stay for the former.

It's predominantly a miniatures game. Damage Deck aside, the cards are there for rules reference and list building only.

I notice you never mentioned the word DICE, though...

I think most would agree that the glorious models are why people buy the product. But then they find the cards almost overwhelming and can (for some people) kinda kill the fun of other less fiddly miniatures games.

I'd want to see some kind of evidence for the assumption that "most" buy the game for the models and find the idea of upgrades overwhelming, and I'd definitely want to see evidence that other tabletop minis games are less fiddly.

Watch a few dedicated X-Wing channels or just about every unboxing video. I have herd literally hundreds of people say in their videos that they got into X-WING becuase of the models. Team Covenant used to say that at the start of every video, when they had the hotts for the game. That alone is a good bases for the sentiment.

But in X-wing, you buy one T-65 and it might be Wedge, Wes, Luke, Biggs, or a nameless rookie, and additionally you can outfit each pilot differently. The price you pay for that flexibility and potential diversity is that the game has a lot of options to internalize.

Yeah that is one of the simple aspects that makes the base game so cool.

Yes.

For sure... but what is your flavor? The models and the cool base game with some upgrades... or the Meta-card-shop?

It's really both.

I mean i love the ships, i love doing missions etc, but it's nice having the cards, having that library of potential upgrades.

Cool Brah... balance is a good thing.

How do you guys feel about it? The card combo thing and the MAX-Meta gets tedious, but it is also how the game was designed to work...

I think most would agree that the glorious models are why people buy the product. But then they find the cards almost overwhelming and can (for some people) kinda kill the fun of other less fiddly miniatures games.

is the basic play experiance getting to fat or has it become far more advanced?

I love this games as most veterans here do, but if I was a rookie I would just toss my hands in the air and play the ships I love most and forget trying to learn the combos until i had months with the core game play. Many of the arguments on this forum come from the card-talk.

PEW-Boom?

This is 100% a miniature game. Every miniature game has rules, most have special exceptions to those rules for certain units. In X-wing, the special exceptions are contained in easy to use card format instead of having to look them up in an index or something.

I'll say that any way someone wants to play is the right way to play, but you can go pretty far in this game just playing the ships you love. I'm pretty competitive, I like to think about the game and figure out ways to win, but I don't play with ships I don't love. Rule #1 for squad building, for me, is to make a squad that I think is cool. The fact that you can have success doing this in most (if not all) X-wing environments speaks to the fact that it's a miniatures game not a card game. The right maneuvers and understanding of movement is much more important than card interactions.

Being able to customize my ship is what I prefer in this game. List building is a game in its own. That's why these days I play a lot with ships with lots of possible customization. Last Wave was the YV, this one I think it will be the Ghost.

Definitely a miniatures game. It just seems like the only thing people talk about is the cards, because they're much easier to talk about online.

I don't care what cards you have, you still have to maneuver well and that takes practice. Cards are a way to represent special abilities/rules as opposed to say manuals full of rules for each side.

Miniatures Game.

The cards can totally replaced by a rule book for the upgrades and pilots (just write your list down on a score sheet) and tokens randomly drawn from a bag for the damage deck.

This is a miniatures game. If you want a SW card game, well Decipher made the ultimate one back in the 90s.

It's a miniature game.

Even if you didn't use the miniature and used the cardboard ship bases you're still moving and measuring arcs. Setting up starting positions, check range, etc... This is absolutely a miniature game and that isn't even the best part. It is a Star Wars miniatures game with really awesome pre-painted miniatures.

That said, the squad portion is a deck building game, and a very complex and in depth one. You can choose not to use the cards or only some; you can get highly competitive or just throw some cards together and see how it works.

So really is it two games in one. Deck building and miniatures.

Well in my humble opinion at least.