I'm finding it increasingly hard to build lists for competitive play these days. The huge array of options out there and my limited time to play makes testing out most of my theory builds next to impossible. Don't get me wrong; I love the sheer diversity of what I'm seeing and facing out there!

I'm just wondering how the other middles aged, full time employed with no FLGS (gaming club only meets 1 night a week too) are managing to find time to keep up with the ever changing meta? Sure there's the internet but it can be wrong and local metas have a degree of variance too.

No rant, just after ideas on filtering through my endless lists. I really do love the current state of affairs, I just don't feel like I'll ever have time to test my ideas out and tweak into anything I'm really happy to take to a tourney. Any suggestions?

Vassal. Its not quite tabletop play, but it works. You can get a game in at 9pm after everything in the house has quieted down.

Play on Vassal, that can help. Also you can try to organize a play with friend or so more often if possible.

What helped me in Warmachine, was Vassal, I had no LGS, nearest was 1h drive. So I played on Vassal and went to Tournaments only. And I won tournaments Without vassal would have been not possible. You can get 1-2 games an evening and get much better at games.

Now I test lists in Vassal for X-Wing and pushing my local players to meet more often to play Have like 8 players locally, +10-15 1h drive. But from local players not all have time, so Vassal to rescue

Vassal helps. So does solo playtesting. If you can make a unique list that is somewhat competitive and run it against common top builds you can get a feel for the kinds of decisions and forced reactions will come up. There is a lot to be said about showing up to a regional or store champ with a good list that none of them have ever faced before. It doesn't have to be great.

Now you just need to ask yourself one question when list building: Can it beat the 3 Contracted Scouts?

Cheers for the advice fellas. I did try vassal a year or so back but found it a bit complicated for my fragile mind. Maybe it's time to brave the learning curve

Now you just need to ask yourself one question when list building: Can it beat the 3 Contracted Scouts?

Luckily we have very few "pay to win" type players round here. Not saying I'll never face this but I'm not expecting it on the tables so soon. Maybe after a few more paydays

You might want to also try tabletop simulator on steam.

Grab the Heroes of the Aturi cluster co-op game. The AI is decent enough that you can solo test out a bunch of lists. It won't get you quite ready for tourney play, but it should give you a good idea of how well (or not so well) your list will function, and whether or not it's worth putting up against "live" competition.

If you can't test all of your competitive play theories, choose the 1 or 2 you enjoy the most and play those a lot. A lot of very good players just can't quite push over the hump because they never get quite familiar enough with their list. I think it is more important to know your list very well then it is to find a 'perfect' list.

When I list build I keep an important mantra in mind:

"I don't **** around but when I do **** around I don't **** around."

How does this apply to list building? It simply reminds you to focus on your end goal. Are you playing to win by attrition? Win with shenanigans? Action economy? Blocking? Withering amount of red dice? Take that thing, whatever it is, and design the list to do it as well as it possibly can.

A great personal example: I had been flying a Trandoshan Slaver with Gunner, Bossk, Tactician , and Anti-Pursuit Lasers for some time. My thinking was that it would be dangerous at all ranges. The problem, however, was because I was using it at all ranges it wasn't leveraging it's most powerful ability - the double stress at range two. Removing the APL's not only saved me two points, but allowed me to focus the ship on what it did best: double-stressing at range two.

Now you just need to ask yourself one question when list building: Can it beat the 3 Contracted Scouts?

Luckily we have very few "pay to win" type players round here. Not saying I'll never face this but I'm not expecting it on the tables so soon. Maybe after a few more paydays

Hey now, not all of us are like that. I love spamming generics (Zs, Triple Slavers, 4 T-70s). The Torp boats are a natural extension of that for me; it's just now that this version is actually considered competitive! I just need to get them the minis first...

I find it's hard to build high-skill imperials without a shuttle or somthing for added hull. I flew Whipser, Zeta Leader, and 2 zeta squad Fos. They all fly really well, its just with turrets and stuff they don't have enough health. I really don't want to fly a palpshuttle, but that might be what I need to do to fly the ships I like.

Do you have an Android cell phone? Load X-wing Companion on it and just check out all the cards in your spare time. It's a great app for sorting through all the various options. It's not a list builder, but lets you sort through all the upgrade cards like nobody's business. The only problem is he's on a month long holiday and won't update it with the new stuff until he's back.

Beyond that, just keep flying what you want and make tweaks to either the list or how you play. I've found that there are lot of non-meta lists that can do well....if you learn how to fly with them. Of course, if it's hard to get the practice games in, that becomes harder to do.

You can always ask your opponent to bring a non-tournament list. That way, you can don't always have to face the toughest thing out there. Most people have some sort of oddball list they want to fly bouncing around the back of the skull.

You're not the only one with that problem ... but it's not too bad.

Excluding the problems that occasionally pop up from way OP builds (like the TIE Phantom prior to the rule changes to Cloak/Decloak and currently the issue with 3 contracted scouts loaded with ordnance and deadeye), most of the time our problems with list building fall into one of three categories:

1) It's not easy to make a list that isn't vulnerable to more than one or two types of lists (annoying, but actually a good thing for game balance).

2) There are so many choices for ships and upgrades (both good choices that work well and bad choices that usually won't work) that it's easy to fall victim to the "paralysis of choice" ... where you feel overwhelmed by the options and can't choose.

3) X-wing is more heavily weighted than ever before in favor of ships/lists that have high health (hull + shields) and roll the most red dice (with mods) in the least number of combat phases. Yes, those have always been key elements to determining victory, but now it's MUCH harder to make a list that utilizes high evade (green dice) values to deny your enemy hits against you and rely on low numbers of repeated/sustained damage over multiple combat phases.

Cheers for the advice fellas. I did try vassal a year or so back but found it a bit complicated for my fragile mind. Maybe it's time to brave the learning curve

When you on vassal, just ask for help. A lot players are ready to introduce your to vassal and help with the start there

If you see me on there, just send a message and I help with vassal

Just a quick question; why is three scouts named Potty Time?

Or 5K Run for the Boarder?

I personally keep a "last favorite build" for each ship I like. Then when I want to test something out, I play it, compare to the previous favorite and decide if I want to keep trying it. My final lists tend to be combinations of these favorites with adjustments to get the points to work. It's less demanding than trying to be happy with all 100 points at a time.

I would say use a squad builder. Take a break at work and list build for 10 min. I have Battlescribe on my phone for list building and often use xwing-builder.co.uk/build# This really helps when I have that occasional x wing epiphany!

Then you have your lists ready to go when you need them, and can save your dedicated time for game playing.

Pledge yourself to the empire and play Palp Aces for life! Always competitive and with tons of variety to your preferences it's everything you could ever want and a can of beans!

Git gud!

This unhelpful advice brought to you thanks to a measly grant from 4Chan.

helps to have a favorite ship and general memorization of what your faction gets at around X amount of points

for example, 35 points in the empire is full Soontir or VI Vader but the low 30s is far less populated, being basically the Inquisitor or two Black squadrons with Crackshot

so long as you have a few popular "building blocks" memorized, you can swap them in and out of lists pretty easily. Gives you a very solid platform from which to try new things

I started testing PTL bb-8 Asty alongside the stress Y and VI regeneration Poe. Worked wonders, and eventually switched the Y to Biggs for more consistent performances

Lot's of interesting ideas here. Thanks!

Grab the Heroes of the Aturi cluster co-op game. The AI is decent enough that you can solo test out a bunch of lists. It won't get you quite ready for tourney play, but it should give you a good idea of how well (or not so well) your list will function, and whether or not it's worth putting up against "live" competition.

Certainly something I hadn't considered. I'll have a look into this.

I find it's hard to build high-skill imperials without a shuttle or somthing for added hull. I flew Whipser, Zeta Leader, and 2 zeta squad Fos. They all fly really well, its just with turrets and stuff they don't have enough health. I really don't want to fly a palpshuttle, but that might be what I need to do to fly the ships I like.

I've been trying a Palp list with Backstabber, Omega Leader and Lt. Colzet recently at the club and it can be brutal but even with Palp; unlucky green dice can seriously screw you over. That said; Vader, Soontir and Palp took 1st in the Store/Pub Championship I TO'd a few weeks ago. So maybe I just need to...

Git gud!

Cheers for the advice fellas. I did try vassal a year or so back but found it a bit complicated for my fragile mind. Maybe it's time to brave the learning curve

When you on vassal, just ask for help. A lot players are ready to introduce your to vassal and help with the start there

If you see me on there, just send a message and I help with vassal

I may well be taking you up on that offer, sir. Thanks!

If you can't test all of your competitive play theories, choose the 1 or 2 you enjoy the most and play those a lot. A lot of very good players just can't quite push over the hump because they never get quite familiar enough with their list. I think it is more important to know your list very well then it is to find a 'perfect' list.

This is actually a problem I seem to suffer from. I pretty much handed out 2 wins at our club by forgetting sensor jammer or to use palp in some games simply through not being familiar with the list and getting caught up in positioning. I think you may be onto something here, perhaps I just need some blinkers instead of staring at ALL MY NEW TOYS!!! And foaming at the mouth.

2) There are so many choices for ships and upgrades (both good choices that work well and bad choices that usually won't work) that it's easy to fall victim to the "paralysis of choice" ... where you feel overwhelmed by the options and can't choose.

This ^^

I would say use a squad builder. Take a break at work and list build for 10 min. I have Battlescribe on my phone for list building and often use xwing-builder.co.uk/build# This really helps when I have that occasional x wing epiphany!

Then you have your lists ready to go when you need them, and can save your dedicated time for game playing.

I think this may actually be part of my problem. Too many lists, not enough table time. I often pick up my phone or tablet and smash something together but by the time I get table time I've had another 2 brainstorms and can only get one on the table. I'm stating to think I need to stop thinking and just play a list consistently. At least until I can get my head around Vassal...

I find it harder to list build too, but that's because I am second guessing myself. There are so many options now it's harder and harder to build an "all comers" list.

The solution for me I think is just to have fun.

I to try to avoid netlists and what's popular, because I am that guy.

I find it harder to list build too, but that's because I am second guessing myself. There are so many options now it's harder and harder to build an "all comers" list.

The solution for me I think is just to have fun.

I to try to avoid netlists and what's popular, because I am that guy.

I'm also "that guy". Don't really like net listing but I just find it hard to find the time to test and refine my lists. And not jump to a whole new one. Perhaps I'm my own worst enemy...