..I'm all out of Likes....

..I'm all out of Likes....

I've had that happen, and I consider it to be a very good thing and a sign of how great our community is.

Maybe the game has to solve some playability issues in the non-standard formats. They often take long and the missions are presented like an afterthought. Huge ships have some balance issues and suffer from unintuitive play. Guidance Chips has not, I think, improved their position.

For a miniatures game, X-Wing downplays the dramatic side a bit. Most miniatures games try to achieve a modest immersive experience, like a small-scale movie. X-Wing is relatively abstract. It's often hard to see what the various game effects supposedly do. I can't picture a pilot using focus to defend himself or using and evade. I just think of someone dodging attacks. In terms of rules and gameplay, however, the difference is obviously very important.

Because of that, attention is quickly drawn to the gaming aspect.

You are correct, Scyk titles are 2 points. Still it's pretty cheap upgrade for some powerful weapons, especially on a cheap ship.

...well, for that tiny handful people who aren't running Scyk swarms, of course.

Scyk swarm is an oxymoron - only way to field a scyk is as a flanker

I don't know. I'm seriously considering running 7 naked Cartel Spacers and seeing what they can do.

I don't know. I'm seriously considering running 7 naked Cartel Spacers and seeing what they can do.

Mostly go Boom!!! I think.

I think scenarios where the list building is predetermined might be fun. The emphasis would not be on whether you can outbuild someone, but whether you can beat them with what you are supplied. Build interesting pairings of squads that help explore some of the less utilized portions of the game. FFG started a little down this path by having us vote which ships should be used from which factions, but I think it needs to go a bit further...

I don't know. I'm seriously considering running 7 naked Cartel Spacers and seeing what they can do.

Mostly go Boom!!! I think.

Well, it's like flying an 8-TIE swarm at a 1-TIE handicap. But you also have the ability to Target Lock, which may or may not come up.

But now I've completely derailed this thread. Let's see ... how do I get this back on track ...

If Scyks aren't good, this game just isn't fun any more!

I really think it's about time for someone to start a casual based X-wing podcast. There are a lot of good podcasts out there, but they all focus on tournament play. They help spread the idea of building hard as nails lists all the time. I think a podcast out there for all the casual players would be a good thing. Maybe some people won't quit or maybe some normally tournament only style gamers will find a new love for X-wing in a different format.

I'm starting one soon....

I have an idea who might be a good candidate for that task.

Want fun with a tournament? Try the stuff we did at "Store Wars" last year:

59 point cross faction

100 point deathmatch

300 point 2v2 epic with required epics

Run it at a bar. Too much fun in one day, that's for **** sure!

And Back to Dials covered it in episode 6: http://www.backtodials.com/episode-6-ghosts-of-x-wing-a-meta-tale/

There's also a TOREP in the link. Go, have fun with X-Wing!

You are correct, Scyk titles are 2 points. Still it's pretty cheap upgrade for some powerful weapons, especially on a cheap ship.

...well, for that tiny handful people who aren't running Scyk swarms, of course.

Scyk swarm is an oxymoron - only way to field a scyk is as a flanker

I don't know. I'm seriously considering running 7 naked Cartel Spacers and seeing what they can do.

Like running an 8 tie swarm but with seven ships.

If the Scyk is OP, then I must really suck. I have flown those ships in more tournements that 99% of the community, including all three SC this year, and they are anything but OP.

I think scenarios where the list building is predetermined might be fun. The emphasis would not be on whether you can outbuild someone, but whether you can beat them with what you are supplied. Build interesting pairings of squads that help explore some of the less utilized portions of the game. FFG started a little down this path by having us vote which ships should be used from which factions, but I think it needs to go a bit further...

It's the best way to play Epic games. Otherwise it's just epic levels of winning in the list building phase. It's more fun when one person makes both lists and sets up a fun game with mostly generics.

You can always limit list building to things like "generic only". That's actually pretty fun.

This thread reminded of a Facebook post I saw today:

Here's a nice image that many of you will find useful. Now any time a new ship, ability or game mechanic is released you can just post this instead of ranting about it in multiple posts. Just DL this image and keep it handy come wave release time!

I guess the disconnect for me is some magic line between "casual" and "competitive." My store has "casual" tournaments, but that is just to differentiate them from official ones. People still bring the lists they play at store championships and above. There are people who bring quad TLT lists, there are palp aces players, there are brobots players. At the same time there are Bossk/Khiraxz lists and crack shot/juke a-wing swarms. Everyone plays and has a good time, but I can't find a differentiation between two types of players or styles there.

As an example, my go to list since wave 7 hit has been Dash and Miranda. Trust me, this list suffers greatly against every "top meta" list (TLT spam, brobots, palp aces), but I enjoy playing it and I do well with it (3rd place in my last tournament). Does that make me a competitive or a casual player? I plan on making either a ghost list or a Dengar/Zuckus list my go to for the next few months. I like developing a list that I like over what's "good" (casual qualities) and then playing that list to learn it inside and out and tweak it to shore up weaknesses or develop strengths (competitive qualities). I just think the entire game is more nuanced and far less binary than folks think.

The game started to decline with wave 4's Phantom and hit a low point during wave 5. Wave 6 and the phantom nerf helped a little. Wave 7 knocked out Fat Turretwing, which is good but it was still Acewing dominated. Wave 7 was good, but still had some problems.

Wave 8 is the best this game has been in a while, arguably it's better than pre-Wave 4. I have no clue why you'd stop finding the game fun right now.

Haven't played this game in 6+ months. For me, it is definitely not fun anymore and the reason is honestly the players and their hyper-competitiveness (which is in no way a bad thing, just not my cup of tea).

Even on casual game nights, people only want to play hyper-efficient flavor-of-the month ships in 100pt deathmatches. I would always run crazy lists because they are fun, but I just got tired of playing against the same lists over and over again with the same format. Everyone else just wants to practice for the next tournament. I just want to play Star Wars.

I wish there were more casual formats and more interest in casual play that wasn't just focused on 100pt deathmatches. I would probably come back at that point...but until then...I have a lot of other things to play.

Okay, I can see it was a waste of time to make this post. Because of few typos in the first post, I can't make an effective argument; that's my fault. I'll just shut up about it and try to slog through. I'm sorry I posted in the first place.

Just so you know, it wasn't the typos that were preventing you from making an effective argument.

So the real "argument" that OP is "trying" to make here is that competitive playerslists/play will nearly always beat casual players/lists/play and therefore it isn't fun for the casual player?

"I want to fly a fun list with Tie Bombers and lots of ordinance and a Lambda with HLC!"
"What's so fun about taking that list to your local SC or FLGS League Night and getting destroyed by Rebel Regen, Palp Aces, or any of the many other competitive builds out there?"

"Well when you put it that way...."

X-wing isn't like MTG where there's a huge cost disparity between top tier decks and casual decks.

Heaver's Worlds 2015 build: $295 at the cheapest.

Heaver's Worlds 2014 build: $180 at the cheapest.

A "casual" build with a bunch of bombers, and a Punisher, and a Lambda?: Pretty much the same.

If someone insists on running known "inferior" builds with the guise of it being "fun" or "casual", then they've got no recourse when they complain about it not being "fun" when they lose badly, because there is no other barrier to getting enjoyment from winning than their own insistence on hamstringing themselves with crappy builds.

I have to say lately I feel I've grown tired or maybe I'm just getting burnt out.

I've played a lot since I've gotten into it.

But lately I just dont feel the excitement that I use to get

Partly maybe my own fault. As I'm a competitive player, so I'm always thinking of tournament builds etc.

Which is a aspect I'm finding boring

If I want to fly something more casual, I'm still up against the usual tournament builds so it becomes a one sided game.

So to at least have a chance I have to fly more competitive builds, plus I am tired on always thinking in competitive terms.

If I want to fly skycs or bombers, they usually die horribly to a fel and emperor, or Poe and stressbot type builds.

I miss the days when I first got into it. Nobody knew about "meta" we were putting torpedoes on Luke, using awing pilots or whatever.

I do have a regional bye and have been considering if I am going to go or not

May just make one last run and retire after that.

Plus I will be busy and may take a much needed break to focus attention elsewhere.

I have a pretty big collection and I'd love to sell it all in one go ( all ships, acrylics,alt art cards, regional dice etc)

Doubt I'd find a buyer who would buy everything at once

You are correct, Scyk titles are 2 points. Still it's pretty cheap upgrade for some powerful weapons, especially on a cheap ship.

...well, for that tiny handful people who aren't running Scyk swarms, of course.

Scyk swarm is an oxymoron - only way to field a scyk is as a flanker

I don't know. I'm seriously considering running 7 naked Cartel Spacers and seeing what they can do.

Not alot without a space suit they'll just freeze to death, your cruelty sir disgusts me those are sentient living beings.

Defenders OP?

Mine must be defective.

May just make one last run and retire after that.

I can see someone retiring from the OP circuit, but why give up X-Wing all together?

I mean if you want to get back to a more casual way of playing X-Wing, wouldn't it be better for everyone if you found a like minded group of people who would play that way.

Put in a rule that only X points can be spent on a given ship, or other limitations. Something that increases the value of flying while lowering the value of list building.

But I also have issues with this idea that Causal = Bad Builds. I mean if you want to try a 8 Syck swarm go for it, maybe it will be fun, maybe it will go down in flames, maybe it will be both.

The problem is when someone does that and then blames the competitive meta for the list not working well.

So the real "argument" that OP is "trying" to make here is that competitive playerslists/play will nearly always beat casual players/lists/play and therefore it isn't fun for the casual player?

"I want to fly a fun list with Tie Bombers and lots of ordinance and a Lambda with HLC!"

"What's so fun about taking that list to your local SC or FLGS League Night and getting destroyed by Rebel Regen, Palp Aces, or any of the many other competitive builds out there?"

"Well when you put it that way...."

X-wing isn't like MTG where there's a huge cost disparity between top tier decks and casual decks.

Heaver's Worlds 2015 build: $295 at the cheapest.

Heaver's Worlds 2014 build: $180 at the cheapest.

A "casual" build with a bunch of bombers, and a Punisher, and a Lambda?: Pretty much the same.

If someone insists on running known "inferior" builds with the guise of it being "fun" or "casual", then they've got no recourse when they complain about it not being "fun" when they lose badly, because there is no other barrier to getting enjoyment from winning than their own insistence on hamstringing themselves with crappy builds.

No, the OP's argument really boils down to Rebels being underpowered and Imperials and Scum being overpowered. He isn't really casting it as a Casual vs Competitive thing, unless you believe that casual players only play Rebel and competitive players only play Scum and Imperial. Even in his first post he decries things such as a number of the named TIEs, the current Defender, the current Bomber, Sycks, Bossk, etc. Many of which aren't considered top choices for competitive play, some of which are considered completely not viable in that context. So this is not a Casual vs Competitive from the OP he just thinks everything the Rebels has is weak.

Now based on his appraisal of things, he frankly is not playing the same game as the rest of us and does not know what he is talking about.

If someone insists on running known "inferior" builds with the guise of it being "fun" or "casual", then they've got no recourse when they complain about it not being "fun" when they lose badly, because there is no other barrier to getting enjoyment from winning than their own insistence on hamstringing themselves with crappy builds.

Flying a more "meta" or competitive list isn't what makes some people enjoy the game. I agree that if they are going to tournaments, they need to be prepared for what they play against. What I keep hearing, though, is people not planning on going to tournaments that are not enjoying the game because the only other games they can find are people preparing for tournaments. Some people just don't want to fly hard tournament lists. Just telling them to fly better or harder tournament lists isn't going to help them.

May just make one last run and retire after that.

I can see someone retiring from the OP circuit, but why give up X-Wing all together?

I mean if you want to get back to a more casual way of playing X-Wing, wouldn't it be better for everyone if you found a like minded group of people who would play that way.

Put in a rule that only X points can be spent on a given ship, or other limitations. Something that increases the value of flying while lowering the value of list building.

I'd love to but I end up having no one to play against.

Flying a creative list that works decently well on the table can be just as fun if not more fun than playing a successful tournament caliber list.