Erm. Less rage more reading. Also... I'd advise on a 5th grade math course too.

Last I was aware, you can't fit 5 Xwings of any sort into 100 points. Let alone named pilots. Let alone adding nice chunky upgrades.

Just leave the 100 point tournament snoozefest behind. I find the game much more enjoyable at 150 points, and doubly so when we incorporate objectives other than "kill the other guy".

Experiment with some different point values, try some of the scenarios included in the larger ships, play HotAC, and remember that tournament games are only one small facet of the game.

That might be useful, but where can I find players that play at 150 points? Not in my area anyway.

Just ask. "Hey mate, want to try a bigger game tonight?" You'll be surprised how many people are open to the idea. Especiallyif you warm them up with some HotAC action first to wean them off the tournament format teat.

It helps when you actually read the freaking card. Besides that you are fast with claiming cheating.

"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.", it is easy to misread the card if you are 'enthusiastic' about finding new great cards or combos. Nonetheless the meaning of the card is clear if you properly read the card. You seem to have misread it as well, right? ;-)

Erm. Less rage more reading. Also... I'd advise on a 5th grade math course too.

Last I was aware, you can't fit 5 Xwings of any sort into 100 points. Let alone named pilots. Let alone adding nice chunky upgrades.

That's my point. You can't fit five X-Wings into a list, but you can certainly fit five TIEs with upgrades.

It helps when you actually read the freaking card. Besides that you are fast with claiming cheating.

"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.", it easy to misread the card if you are 'enthusiastic' about finding new great cards or combos. Nonetheless the meaning of the card is clear if you properly read the card. You seem to have misread it as well, right? ;-)

You're right, it's my fault for not knowing the card, but those players should have known the card also. At least I know better now.

Are you kidding me? In that case, I've been cheated again. That's now the third time I was lied to in a game (several games actually) over an ability. I've lost ships to Bossk more than once because all crits were changed to hits instead of just one. I guess that serves me right for not knowing the rules, but I hate being cheated against. But thanks for letting me know.

If it has happened to you several times, I recommend you to re-read the Combat Phase pages in the manual, or the Rules Reference, or even bringing them with you to the games. Whenever you feel during a game that a something is terribly unfair or overpowered, bring out your your Rules Reference and check that it is following the rules properly.

There is lots of people that have a really "creative" interpretation of the rules or will clearly make up their own.

Erm. Less rage more reading. Also... I'd advise on a 5th grade math course too.

Last I was aware, you can't fit 5 Xwings of any sort into 100 points. Let alone named pilots. Let alone adding nice chunky upgrades.

That's my point. You can't fit five X-Wings into a list, but you can certainly fit five TIEs with upgrades.

That's because TIEs are 'garbage' if you compare them one for one with X-Wings. If you want to fly swarms, I hear headhunters with missiles are the new hot thing ;-)

It helps when you actually read the freaking card. Besides that you are fast with claiming cheating.

"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.", it easy to misread the card if you are 'enthusiastic' about finding new great cards or combos. Nonetheless the meaning of the card is clear if you properly read the card. You seem to have misread it as well, right? ;-)

You're right, it's my fault for not knowing the card, but those players should have known the card also. At least I know better now.

Actually my point was that your fellow players might simply made the same mistake as you. Both should have known better, but mistakes happen. Assuming cheating when a mistake is a sufficient explanation will just make you angry. Next time you can correct that mistake and your local group will improve a little bit thanks to that.

(I really hate it that english does not allow the use of teammate or something similar to indicate that you play together a game, the language itself seems to oppose the idea of "Fly Casual" )

Okay, I can see it was a waste of time to make this post. Because of few typos in the first post, I can't make an effective argument; that's my fault. I'll just shut up about it and try to slog through. I'm sorry I posted in the first place.

Erm. Less rage more reading. Also... I'd advise on a 5th grade math course too.

Last I was aware, you can't fit 5 Xwings of any sort into 100 points. Let alone named pilots. Let alone adding nice chunky upgrades.

That's my point. You can't fit five X-Wings into a list, but you can certainly fit five TIEs with upgrades.

Realize though a TIE has 3 hull and no shields (or 1 on a F/O which is still less than rebel ships) with just 2 attack while your X-Wing gets 1 more attack dice and some shields. Also your X- Wing can regenerate those shields with R2 -D2 or R5- P9. TIEs (with some exceptions like Omega leader) cant fly individually like an X-Wing can because of this low attack and lack of sheilding, hence they are much cheaper, even named pilots,to accomodate what they can do well which is attack in swarms.

If Bossk rolls four crits at range one, he can turn that into 8 hits. With three eveades, its still enough to one shot an A-wing with one hit to spare.

Err... no. You are totally reading that card wrong, mate.

Bossk can turn ONE crit into two hits after the Compare Results steps. That means that 3 Evades from the A-Wing will cancel out the three crits from Bossk, and Bossk will have no crit to work with after the Compare Results step. He will deal 0 damage.

If Bossk still got 3 crits and the A-Wing got 2 evades, Bossk could turn the uncancelled crit into two hits, and remove the shields off the A-Wing.

If Bossk still got 3 crits and the A-Wing got just 1 evade. Then Bossk could turn ONE of the crits (not both of them) into two hits, dealing 2 damage and 1 critical damage to the A-Wing, potentially killing it if it comes a Direct Hit.

Now, all of this is assuming that Bossk happily gets 3 crits on a roll. The chance of that is lower than 0.2%.

Are you kidding me? In that case, I've been cheated again. That's now the third time I was lied to in a game (several games actually) over an ability. I've lost ships to Bossk more than once because all crits were changed to hits instead of just one. I guess that serves me right for not knowing the rules, but I hate being cheated against. But thanks for letting me know.

Highlighted for posterity.

Marinealver, on 22 Mar 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

Lets see we got Soontir, Dart Vader, and Emperor Palpatine. But yeah the whole point is that 5 named pilots is too expensive. In the lore of plot armor it is the few named pilots that take on the masses of unnamed pilots. If you want more named pilots than play epic or escalation.

THERE WAS NEVER A LIST WITH 5 UNIQUE PILOTS THAT IS LESS THAN 100 SQUADRON POINTS!

EH....

5 named ties FTW

OP....

I am not feeling your position. Often I get all worked up but not seeing your position on things here. This wave is great Rebel Scum wave. I could see you saying there is less real rebel diversity of lists that work well against most other lists.

Honestly if its not fun do something else for a while. Then come back in 2-4 months and try it again.

My last tournament was a suprise to me.
11 players. I had gotten stopmed last tournament, when i brought corran+dash.

So what did I bring? I thought, let's go casual.
So ABXY, Jake, Blue, Garven and a stress(r3-a2) gold squad with Ion and BTL4.
Finished the whole thing second place. 3/4 wins.



Just bought the whole wave 8, been waiting for some creativety. And the Inquisitor is by far my favorite pilot from wave 8.

Marinealver, on 22 Mar 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

Lets see we got Soontir, Dart Vader, and Emperor Palpatine. But yeah the whole point is that 5 named pilots is too expensive. In the lore of plot armor it is the few named pilots that take on the masses of unnamed pilots. If you want more named pilots than play epic or escalation.

THERE WAS NEVER A LIST WITH 5 UNIQUE PILOTS THAT IS LESS THAN 100 SQUADRON POINTS!

EH....

5 named ties FTW

The only exception but often was overlooked in favor of the TIE Swarm.

op is clearly trolling

right?

I have a challenge for anyone who is interested. Develop a rebel build that can field four or five named pilots with fantastic pilot abilities that keep your opponent from hitting you or evading your attacks. It would be nice to also have the room for upgrades like Juke, Crack Shot, or Electronic Jammer. Finally, try to keep it under 100 points for a possible initiative bid. Can you make one of those? Yeah, neither can I.

When could you ever?

I don't remember ever being able to field 4-5 fully upgraded Aces in a 100 point list.

I have a challenge for anyone who is interested. Develop a rebel build that can field four or five named pilots with fantastic pilot abilities that keep your opponent from hitting you or evading your attacks. It would be nice to also have the room for upgrades like Juke, Crack Shot, or Electronic Jammer. Finally, try to keep it under 100 points for a possible initiative bid. Can you make one of those? Yeah, neither can I.

This game is getting less fun as each new expansion rolls out. The Gozanti expansion released several new TIE pilots with magical powers that seem to make them bullet proof as well as experts marksmen. The upcoming Imperial Veterans expansion gives ridiculous titles to ships that are already overpowered. The Imperial Raider expansion gave the TIE Advanced the ability to add an automatic critical hit in addition to its primary attack. What Rebel upgrade has an equivalent answer to that? There isn't one. The Imperial side can easily field five or six named pilots with a few upgrades and still have room to spare.

The Imperial side isn't the only one that has received undue favor. Just look at the scum side. What Rebel pilot has the equivalent of changing a crit into two hits like Bossk? This gives Bossk the ability to one-shot an A-Wing even if the A-Wing rolls three evades. Compare Kavil to Horton Salm. Horton can reroll blank dice at range two or three, but Kavil can fire an extra die outside of his arc. An extra die gives more chances for a hit than does a reroll, especially if Kavil already has a target lock. Furthermore, Kavil can take an EPT, but Horton cannot without spending extra points for a droid. This is in spite of the fact that Horton's PS is 8, while Kavil's is only 7.

Let's talk TIEs, Sycks, and Z-95s. TIEs can take a 1 point mod upgrade to make all bank maneuvers green, while the Sycks can take a 0 point title to equip an HLC or Mangler Cannon. What can the Zs do? Maybe take a Munitions Failsafe, but only if the list has enough points for a missile.

What about the latest wave? The VCX-100 is certainly one of the best Rebel ships yet released. But it is also one of the most expensive, in more ways than one. Hera comes in at 40 points, but she only has a PS of 7. Furthermore, an EPT is not offered as an upgrade on the VCX or the shuttle for any pilot. The Inquisitor comes in at only 25 points, PS 8, with an available EPT, plus he can fire a range one shot out to range three while at the same time negating range agility bonus and autothrusters. What Rebel pilot can do that? Meanwhile, Dengar is a PS 9 with an EPT slot and can also take one of those ridiculous Illicit upgrades. I could go on.

The game has gotten to the point where you must take named pilots to counteract the shenanigans that your opponent's pilots can throw at you. This is fine for Imperials and somewhat for Scum. But the Rebel faction is simply too expensive to field all named pilots, unless you only take three ships, which usually loses to a swarm of five or six named TIE pilots.

The only way I can see for Rebel player to cope with this meta is to take as many low skilled pilots as possible and try to get some dice through, or take three named named pilots and hope that the list doesn't fall apart. Either way, it is not an effective answer to the meta in the Imperial or Scum factions. I understand that the Rebels are supposed to be a bit tankier than other factions. That's fine. The problem is that the Imperial and Scum factions have received pilots and ships that effectively counteract the inherent advantages of the Rebels, while the Rebels have received a mere pittance in return.

It seems to me that FFG is causing that galaxy far, far away to fall into Imperial and Scum hands.

Tl:dr

Rebels should ALWAYS win. ALWAYS.

How dare expensive imperial ships that few people use competitively because they are hugely expensive...how dare they get a buff?

It's such a shame that maybe rebels now have come out from behind their sheilds and stressbots and turrets and up their game.

I feel your pain.

Before raging you might try out the other factions first. And read their cards thoroughly. And have a look into the history of the game, at points in time Imps were having an advantage, other times the rebels.

I have a challenge for anyone who is interested. Develop a rebel build that can field four or five named pilots with fantastic pilot abilities that keep your opponent from hitting you or evading your attacks. It would be nice to also have the room for upgrades like Juke, Crack Shot, or Electronic Jammer. Finally, try to keep it under 100 points for a possible initiative bid. Can you make one of those? Yeah, neither can I.

This game is getting less fun as each new expansion rolls out. The Gozanti expansion released several new TIE pilots with magical powers that seem to make them bullet proof as well as experts marksmen. The upcoming Imperial Veterans expansion gives ridiculous titles to ships that are already overpowered. The Imperial Raider expansion gave the TIE Advanced the ability to add an automatic critical hit in addition to its primary attack. What Rebel upgrade has an equivalent answer to that? There isn't one. The Imperial side can easily field five or six named pilots with a few upgrades and still have room to spare.

TIE with magical powers? TIEs die fast like hell. Also, Chaser is rather meh, Youngster can only use action(!) EPT, requires a whole list build around a TIE figther (good luck pulling that off against an experienced player).

Undue favor? I suggest you just look how hilariously good the rebel pancake dials are.

The Imperial side isn't the only one that has received undue favor. Just look at the scum side. What Rebel pilot has the equivalent of changing a crit into two hits like Bossk? This gives Bossk the ability to one-shot an A-Wing even if the A-Wing rolls three evades. Compare Kavil to Horton Salm. Horton can reroll blank dice at range two or three, but Kavil can fire an extra die outside of his arc. An extra die gives more chances for a hit than does a reroll, especially if Kavil already has a target lock. Furthermore, Kavil can take an EPT, but Horton cannot without spending extra points for a droid. This is in spite of the fact that Horton's PS is 8, while Kavil's is only 7.

On Bossk nough people have commented.

Horton without EPT was a mistake, but it is an old ship.

Let's talk TIEs, Sycks, and Z-95s. TIEs can take a 1 point mod upgrade to make all bank maneuvers green, while the Sycks can take a 0 point title to equip an HLC or Mangler Cannon. What can the Zs do? Maybe take a Munitions Failsafe, but only if the list has enough points for a missile.

The Scyk title costs a whole 2 points(!) plus further points for the resp. upgrade. Totally a waste for ordnance, still highly expensive for a cannon. You've seen that the cheapest HLC Scyk comes at 23pts? You have seen that a Scyk has 2hull,1shield, haven't you? Here we can speak about being one-shot and spending points which with a high probability go to your opponent.

What about the latest wave? The VCX-100 is certainly one of the best Rebel ships yet released. But it is also one of the most expensive, in more ways than one. Hera comes in at 40 points, but she only has a PS of 7. Furthermore, an EPT is not offered as an upgrade on the VCX or the shuttle for any pilot. The Inquisitor comes in at only 25 points, PS 8, with an available EPT, plus he can fire a range one shot out to range three while at the same time negating range agility bonus and autothrusters. What Rebel pilot can do that? Meanwhile, Dengar is a PS 9 with an EPT slot and can also take one of those ridiculous Illicit upgrades. I could go on.

Comparing apples to pears...

There is a reason why there is no EPT slot on the VCX, that would be totally broken.

"Ridicoulous" Illicit upgrades? I suggest you try them out, most are expensive one-shots, compared to "ridiculous" R2D2:s or stressbots.

Then: Look what options Scum had so far:

Brobots: mostly the build you saw in compettitive environments cause look carefully below:

Z95:s same as rebels

Y-wing: same as rebels, OK aces (Drea is highly conditional, Kavil gets 1 die on a turret, most turrets are capped in damage.....)

Starviper: quite overcosted

Scyks: quite overcosted

Khiraxz: same as X-wing, minus powerful astromechs and IA.

The game has gotten to the point where you must take named pilots to counteract the shenanigans that your opponent's pilots can throw at you. This is fine for Imperials and somewhat for Scum. But the Rebel faction is simply too expensive to field all named pilots, unless you only take three ships, which usually loses to a swarm of five or six named TIE pilots.

The only way I can see for Rebel player to cope with this meta is to take as many low skilled pilots as possible and try to get some dice through, or take three named named pilots and hope that the list doesn't fall apart. Either way, it is not an effective answer to the meta in the Imperial or Scum factions. I understand that the Rebels are supposed to be a bit tankier than other factions. That's fine. The problem is that the Imperial and Scum factions have received pilots and ships that effectively counteract the inherent advantages of the Rebels, while the Rebels have received a mere pittance in return.

It seems to me that FFG is causing that galaxy far, far away to fall into Imperial and Scum hands.

The same argument could be heard about Super Dash, Super Corran, Fat Han etc while ago.....

There is one point so you might be right, I am actually sceptical about the coming upgraded Defenders, too.

Lieutenant Blount — Z-95 Headhunter 17

Airen Cracken — Z-95 Headhunter 19

"Zeb" Orrelios — Attack Shuttle 18

Ezra Bridger — Attack Shuttle 20

Sabine Wren — Attack Shuttle 21

5 points to spare.

Tracers on Blount (1)

PTL on Ezra (3)

VI on Sabine (1)

Adaptability on whoever can still take it (Airen for sure)

and Chopper somewhere. ****, must make it automatic in my mind during Rebel Squad building.

I have a challenge for anyone who is interested. Develop a rebel build that can field four or five named pilots with fantastic pilot abilities that keep your opponent from hitting you or evading your attacks. It would be nice to also have the room for upgrades like Juke, Crack Shot, or Electronic Jammer. Finally, try to keep it under 100 points for a possible initiative bid. Can you make one of those? Yeah, neither can I.

Counter challenge: build an Imperial list based around cheap, multi-shot, 360 degree firing arcs which also includes shield regenerating ships and/or more, large based, boosting primary weapon turret ships with multiple forms of damage mitigation. Can you make one of these? Yeah, neither can I.

Sounds like you're complaining about the factions being unique and your inability to deal with it more than anything else.

There are definitely some guys who really like to "creatively" interpret cards and then play against new people who won't call them out on it because they don't understand them. I know one.

Guy gets stomped against the really good players.

Use your aggressive feelings, boy! Let the hurt flow through you...

The upcoming Imperial Veterans expansion gives ridiculous titles to ships that are already overpowered.

You are correct, Scyk titles are 2 points. Still it's pretty cheap upgrade for some powerful weapons, especially on a cheap ship.