Flying a more "meta" or competitive list isn't what makes some people enjoy the game.

Given the number of viable lists you can make in this game, I have trouble believing that someone can't find a list that is both effective and fun to fly.

I can see people having a problem with the other way around, not having fun playing against the current meta builds.

I can see people having a problem with the other way around, not having fun playing against the current meta builds.

Especially if playing repetitive meta lists is the case.

May just make one last run and retire after that.

I can see someone retiring from the OP circuit, but why give up X-Wing all together?I mean if you want to get back to a more casual way of playing X-Wing, wouldn't it be better for everyone if you found a like minded group of people who would play that way.Put in a rule that only X points can be spent on a given ship, or other limitations. Something that increases the value of flying while lowering the value of list building.But I also have issues with this idea that Causal = Bad Builds. I mean if you want to try a 8 Syck swarm go for it, maybe it will be fun, maybe it will go down in flames, maybe it will be both.The problem is when someone does that and then blames the competitive meta for the list not working well.

I only have two people to play with so it's a lot of the same builds, and usually competitive.

But I'm also trying get my butt over to Japan, so again I'll have to sell my house and most of my possession before I do.

Idk, but I just feel burnt out.

Some days I'll play 4 games, One weekend we played 10-15 games in three days lol

Don't get me wrong, love the game, but just losing the flare for it I guess.

Plus wave 8 didn't make me excites like previous waves, (either because feeling burnt or didbt really offer anything I feel I must have) but I feel I have to purchase wave 8 to stay on top, and waves are getting more expensive

When I first got into xwing a small ship was 16-17 dollars (Canadian) and Falcon for example was 35

Now small ships are between 21-29 dollars and large ships are 40-71 (ghost at one store is 71 plus tax in my area) and lately ffg is getting stingy on the upgrade cards (buddy mine was not happy when I told him one guidance chip came with the new advanced)

And if I am moving to Japan, is there any sense of my buying all of wave 8?

Idk, hard to say really what'll happen over the next few months, but I don't feel I'd miss it, definitely not what I expected a year ago

Defenders OP?

Mine must be defective.

It's not them it's you.

Here's my thing... and this may sound more harsh than I intend it to be. But if you're not part of the solution then you may be part of the problem.

If people find that playing the top meta lists isn't fun, and I get that some may feel that way. Then isn't it in every ones best interest for them to do what they can to either break the local community out of the meta or just creating a sub community that doesn't chase the meta.

Maybe you can't find anyone in your area who wants to play that way, but isn't putting some effort into finding people who do, better than not playing?

Perhaps start a FB group, or start a new league night at your LGS with rules in place to limit the amount of meta lists you see. I'd say that unless you have a fairly small community, you could likely find people to join in.

Perhaps they want to break away from the meta, or just looking for a more laid back league to play in alongside their competitive games...

Sucks that the game isn't fun for some. I still love it.

I'm not sure how Mango Bossk one-shots an A-Wing through three evades given that he generates a maximum of two crits and two hits. One crit and two hits are cancled, leaving a single crit to splash off a shield. Sans mango at range one a perfect four crit roll still doesn't do it, although it takes off both shields rather than just one.

This is ground control too Major Tom, we cant agree more, don't forget to take you protein pill with your prune juice, and Gods love be with you! Can you hear me Major Tom? CAN YOU HEAR ME MAJOR TOM? CAN YOU HEAR ME MAJOR TOM?!

Now small ships are between 21-29 dollars and large ships are 40-71 (ghost at one store is 71 plus tax in my area) and lately ffg is getting stingy on the upgrade cards (buddy mine was not happy when I told him one guidance chip came with the new advanced)

And if I am moving to Japan, is there any sense of my buying all of wave 8?

Idk, hard to say really what'll happen over the next few months, but I don't feel I'd miss it, definitely not what I expected a year ago

Your friend getting mad a single upgrade is given in a 15 dollar pack? When did he start playing? Last month? Cause there is no precedence for duplicate cards in a small 15 ship blister, only the 20 dollar ones do.

I find this whole thread going down hill fast. Thing is, if you aren't having fun, it's not the game, it's you. Wanna know why? Because the game just keeps getting more and more popular because of the fun that can be had. Sure fun is subjective, and getting your butt beaten multiple times isn't the epitome of fun, but let's just get this straight, this all comes down to you, and your view on the game. Nothing else. You don't need to keep up with the Jones to keep up in tournaments. I know many local players that are just starting and doing just great. A lot of that comes down to playing what you know, not what you think you need.

Edit: That's not a Love it or Leave!!! type statement. I'm just saying that the game is the game, and it has always been competitive by nature. If people find the current meta makes the game unenjoyable to them, then perhaps they should step away from the game for while until things change again.

You say it's not a love it or leave it statement, but I'm getting a very love it or leave it vibe, especially with the part where you say "perhaps they should step away from the game".

The point that was trying to be made earlier was not that casual players feel like they should be able to compete with competitive players, but that FFG and the community at large promotes competitive play with extensive prize support, publication of official tournament rules, FAQs, etc, and that as a result it can be very hard to find a casual game.

The correct response to this is not "Well, perhaps you should step away from the game for a while".

Players not enjoying the competitive aspect of the game should be encouraged to find like-minded players, and start playing different games.

There was very little distinction in 40K between a competitive and a casual gamer. Competitive games can be anything from 500 to 2250 in points size, and feature any kind of scenario from a bog-standard deathmatch to a one-of-a-kind scenario created escpecially for that event. As a result, things that are broken in the competitive scene are by default also broken in casual play. It's very hard in 40K, if you're feeling burnt out, to get away from the things that are getting you down because even in a casual game, you might see those things on the table across from you.

But X Wing is different. There's a clear distinction between the 100 point, 6 rock snoozefest, and anything else. If you adjust the points value, you're playing casually. Adjust the deathmatch scenario and you're playing casually. Use Epic ships and you're playing casually.

And as a result it can be difficult sometimes to get people to make that break from the competitive scene to the casual one. People love to do things the 'official' way and since everyone knows the official way to play the game is the 100 point dogfight, even people who never plan on going to a tournament are often reluctant to break away from it. Which makes it really hard sometimes for players (like myself) that find the competitive scene lame. I love wargames and I love tournaments, but I really don't like X Wing as a game when it's played at 100 points.

I think the key is to use Heroes of the Arturi Cluster, or some of the campaigns from the Epic ships to get people to leave the 100 point snoozefest behind. Once they've played a couple of games that aren't just 6 rock deathmatches, they tend to be more open to the idea of playing something other than a tournament style game. And use facebook! It's a great tool for arranging games. Having a consistent standard for play makes life easier when playing against random people at pick-up games nights, but if your club members are part of a facebook group it's much easier to have a 'who wants a game of X Wing?' conversation, days prior to the game, where you can nut out who wants to play which faction (because some of us don't like blue-on-blue games) and what points value to use, and if you want to play something other than a standard dogfight.

EDIT: After reading further into the thread, it seems we are sort of on the same page about competitive vs casual players.

I think what this game needs is less game mechanics, and more STAR WARS. I'm not sure how to go about that exactly, but I think most people will know what I mean.

Dear OP, you have the typical "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome... But your case is, in addition, aggravated with a severe daltonism problem that doesn't let you differentiate between green and brown.

The treatment for your illness is taking 'imperialsquad' or 'scumlist'. One dose per tournament until you win a regional at least.

By that time, you'll be kissing and hugging your rebel miniatures again.

May just make one last run and retire after that.

I can see someone retiring from the OP circuit, but why give up X-Wing all together?I mean if you want to get back to a more casual way of playing X-Wing, wouldn't it be better for everyone if you found a like minded group of people who would play that way.Put in a rule that only X points can be spent on a given ship, or other limitations. Something that increases the value of flying while lowering the value of list building.But I also have issues with this idea that Causal = Bad Builds. I mean if you want to try a 8 Syck swarm go for it, maybe it will be fun, maybe it will go down in flames, maybe it will be both.The problem is when someone does that and then blames the competitive meta for the list not working well.

Well it's a number of things

I only have two people to play with so it's a lot of the same builds, and usually competitive.

But I'm also trying get my butt over to Japan, so again I'll have to sell my house and most of my possession before I do.

Idk, but I just feel burnt out.

Some days I'll play 4 games, One weekend we played 10-15 games in three days lol

Don't get me wrong, love the game, but just losing the flare for it I guess.

Plus wave 8 didn't make me excites like previous waves, (either because feeling burnt or didbt really offer anything I feel I must have) but I feel I have to purchase wave 8 to stay on top, and waves are getting more expensive

When I first got into xwing a small ship was 16-17 dollars (Canadian) and Falcon for example was 35

Now small ships are between 21-29 dollars and large ships are 40-71 (ghost at one store is 71 plus tax in my area) and lately ffg is getting stingy on the upgrade cards (buddy mine was not happy when I told him one guidance chip came with the new advanced)

And if I am moving to Japan, is there any sense of my buying all of wave 8?

Idk, hard to say really what'll happen over the next few months, but I don't feel I'd miss it, definitely not what I expected a year ago

2 Guidance Chips also come with Jump Master 5000

If this game really is "becoming not fun anymore" for anyone, I would submit that it is more to di with the attitude and approach of the player in question than it is to do with the game itself.

Odd. I played in a SC a couple of weeks ago that had 28 players I think. I placed in the top 4 with a rebel build, lost to another rebel player, and 3 out of the top 4 players were playing rebels with very different lists. Also, I might add that I had a lot of fun in that SC.

So I really have no clue what the OP is going on about. Game seems fine to me.

Defenders OP?

Mine must be defective.

It's not them it's you.

Lies.

Here's my thing... and this may sound more harsh than I intend it to be. But if you're not part of the solution then you may be part of the problem.

If people find that playing the top meta lists isn't fun, and I get that some may feel that way. Then isn't it in every ones best interest for them to do what they can to either break the local community out of the meta or just creating a sub community that doesn't chase the meta.

Maybe you can't find anyone in your area who wants to play that way, but isn't putting some effort into finding people who do, better than not playing?

Perhaps start a FB group, or start a new league night at your LGS with rules in place to limit the amount of meta lists you see. I'd say that unless you have a fairly small community, you could likely find people to join in.

Perhaps they want to break away from the meta, or just looking for a more laid back league to play in alongside their competitive games...

Idk maybe I am part of the problem.

Seeing as of lately I feel that I'm not having fun as before

But in the last couple years I've tried a couple of times to start getting a xwing night going to our local game stores

Sadly mtg take most of what space these stores have, and they are small. ( get maybe 4-6 players and that's tight.

Also never was much interest

Tried getting in touch with some who play in house, but again it's always just myself and two others, and as far as I'm aware we are the only ones who travel out of province (pei is a small place)

But tonight I did have a fun game which was nice

No meta type builds.

I flew redline, delta inquisitor, and he flew xzisor, 3 bynire pilot, and serissu, and I was actually happy see a squad win using serissu, and redline fired all but one missle

Edit

Just to be clear I'm not saying the game itself is boring, it's actually a very fun game and I recommend to others, but buyer beware it can get pricey over time depending on how much your willing to spend. It is a addictive game, which is good.

But other than getting tired of the meta scene, I am also thinking just put aside until I take care of more important things like moving, possible career change etc, and maybe a break is a good thing

I have played a ton of xwing in the last year. Going 8-12 games a week (not every week but sometimes for a few weeks at a time), which I think is a lot lol, practicing for tournaments, deciding on lists etc

I think what this game needs is less game mechanics, and more STAR WARS. I'm not sure how to go about that exactly, but I think most people will know what I mean.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The game feels very star wars and the mechanics work.

I think what this game needs is less game mechanics, and more STAR WARS. I'm not sure how to go about that exactly, but I think most people will know what I mean.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The game feels very star wars and the mechanics work.

I'm not sure what chuck is thinking, but I've felt something along these lines for a while...

The game mechanics work fine, and I think they capture the star wars feel reasonably well. Certain card effects do an especially good job of this (such as the Emperor).

Part of what makes the game fun is immersing yourself in the star wars universe - re-enacting events or inventing new ones... the star wars feel goes deeper than ship mechanics and pilot abilities. An emphasis on maximizing the effectiveness of a build over all else leads to a switch in thinking that can rob the game of some of the star wars feel. Darth Vader doesn't always feel like Darth Vader if you're flying him into battle on a shuttle that has little chance of surviving a match (even though the Darth Vader crew card is quite thematic and cool itself). Sending the dark lord of the Sith to his self-inflicted death over and over again cheapens the thrill of fielding him, and desensitizes you to losing him even faster.

It's always going to be fun to play at the competitive level, and I don't want to take anything away from it - I enjoy hard-fought matches and tournament play too. I'm just saying that when you're playing the game casually, you can connect with the Star Warsiness of the game easier than you can in tournament play.

The other thing about tournament play is that sometimes, in some ways, it can discourage creativity (or at least give an impression to that effect). What I mean is that in a thoroughly explored metagame, usually a number of top-tier lists emerge. SuperDash and Corran. Fat Han. The TIE swarms of wave 1-3... the list goes on. Sometimes you have a relatively fluid metagame, sometimes the top lists are very clear cut, such as during wave 4 when it was essentially Whisper or Fat Han, with some swarms hanging in there.

When you 'know' what the best lists are, there is a pressure to take up those lists instead of creating your own. Creativity in list building at the top levels might feel restricted to tinkering with the details of a top-tier list (unless you are an Aaron Bonar wunderkind). Some players might feel that if they decide to develop their own completely unique list for tournament play, they undercut their chances to win. And it doesn't matter so much if that is strictly true; the feeling of a need to cleave to the dominant lists in order to be competitive stifles creativity, and creativity in listbuilding is at the heart of what makes X-wing fun.

I really think it's about time for someone to start a casual based X-wing podcast. There are a lot of good podcasts out there, but they all focus on tournament play. They help spread the idea of building hard as nails lists all the time. I think a podcast out there for all the casual players would be a good thing. Maybe some people won't quit or maybe some normally tournament only style gamers will find a new love for X-wing in a different format.

I'm starting one soon....

I've genuinely thought of this. I dip my toe into the competitive scene locally, but I don't consider myself a strong enough player to have any notions about regionals or such. Most of the fun I draw from this game comes from casual play, trying lists with silly archetypes or themes, and generally making some use of my burgeoning collection of ships (what's the point in having a hundred ships if you're always using the same Palp-aces list). There's a few lists I've actually retired because they were built as a silly idea, and they turned out to be shockingly effective.

That said, now and again I'll feel the urge to enter a competitive event of some sort, and I'll take some time to refine a list for it. I'll still get my kicks from that, but the point is I have reasonable expectations from it. The best camaraderie and craic is usually found at the casual tables, I've found.

just to warn u u have some things wrong in your post ill name a few.

1-boosk cant one shot an a-wing that gets 3 evades 4 attack dice minus 3 make it one then boosk changes that one to two damage thats only two shields. not a one shot a-wing

2- the sycks title is 2pts

3-3 of the 4 shuttle pilots have EPTs and its a good thing the vcx-100 dosent have an ept or it would be op. (think most people can agree on that one)

u must not play rebels a whole lot cause didnt they get 1st and 2nd in last years worlds? dont think there doing as bad as u think. just cause u cant take 5-6 named pilots dosent mean the games broken or no fun play epic? rebel ships are better then imperial stat wise thats why there more points.

think u should step back and relook at the game and u might find it really not as bad as u think stay away from the sky is falling thinking and u will be fine.

so i cant take you serious cause u dont read the cards or even look on a list builder or u would know some of the basics of each ships.

Lemme correct your corrections. The Ghost sucks balls. It will see exactly no competitive use because it has a bad dial, is stupid expensive, relies on an expensive gimmick, and isnt a PWT. So no, having EPT on Lothal Rebel wouldnt barely do anything to make the VCX viable.

Just because the best player in the world can win worlds with Rebels, doesnt mean Rebels are a good faction. Scum and Empire can do everything Rebels can, but better. Scum now has Regen, and Empire can throw lots of dice, both of which were the Rebel's "Thing."

Just, can we stop using Paul Heaver as an example to "prove" that Rebels are still fine? None of us are Paul Heaver. Only Paul Heaver is Paul Heaver. I dont and never will play as well as Paul Heaver does, as well as everyone else in this thread. If the only way for Rebel 4-or-less ship builds to win against popular Imperial builds is to "Just have the skill of the best player in the world," then that on it's own is a damning argument.

just to warn u u have some things wrong in your post ill name a few.

1-boosk cant one shot an a-wing that gets 3 evades 4 attack dice minus 3 make it one then boosk changes that one to two damage thats only two shields. not a one shot a-wing

2- the sycks title is 2pts

3-3 of the 4 shuttle pilots have EPTs and its a good thing the vcx-100 dosent have an ept or it would be op. (think most people can agree on that one)

u must not play rebels a whole lot cause didnt they get 1st and 2nd in last years worlds? dont think there doing as bad as u think. just cause u cant take 5-6 named pilots dosent mean the games broken or no fun play epic? rebel ships are better then imperial stat wise thats why there more points.

think u should step back and relook at the game and u might find it really not as bad as u think stay away from the sky is falling thinking and u will be fine.

so i cant take you serious cause u dont read the cards or even look on a list builder or u would know some of the basics of each ships.

Lemme correct your corrections. The Ghost sucks balls. It will see exactly no competitive use because it has a bad dial, is stupid expensive, relies on an expensive gimmick, and isnt a PWT. So no, having EPT on Lothal Rebel wouldnt barely do anything to make the VCX viable.

Just because the best player in the world can win worlds with Rebels, doesnt mean Rebels are a good faction. Scum and Empire can do everything Rebels can, but better. Scum now has Regen, and Empire can throw lots of dice, both of which were the Rebel's "Thing."

Just, can we stop using Paul Heaver as an example to "prove" that Rebels are still fine? None of us are Paul Heaver. Only Paul Heaver is Paul Heaver. I dont and never will play as well as Paul Heaver does, as well as everyone else in this thread. If the only way for Rebel 4-or-less ship builds to win against popular Imperial builds is to "Just have the skill of the best player in the world," then that on it's own is a damning argument.

Bahahahaha.

Paul heaver's not the only person who took Rebels to worlds. Top 2 were both rebel, with 4 rebel lists in the top 8. That's 50% of the top 8. 8 of the top 16 lists were rebel.

As for the ghost, it's a rather fantastic ship. We had 2 ghost lists (and 3 actual ghosts) in the top 4 of our final store championship over the weekend. I went 5-0 in the vassal league's first round with it with a different list, and am 15-1 with that list. The dial is actually quite nice, it can be flown with or without the docked shuttle, and doesn't need a PWT. You just have to learn how to actually fly the ship, instead of just circling like a fat PWT ship.

I have a challenge for anyone who is interested.

It seems to me that FFG is causing that galaxy far, far away to fall into Imperial and Scum hands.

Name me a Imperial or Scum ship that can regen shields every turn without taking action.

Lemme correct your corrections. The Ghost sucks balls. It will see exactly no competitive use because it has a bad dial, is stupid expensive, relies on an expensive gimmick, and isnt a PWT. So no, having EPT on Lothal Rebel wouldnt barely do anything to make the VCX viable.

Lets just give it some time.

Just because the best player in the world can win worlds with Rebels, doesnt mean Rebels are a good faction. Scum and Empire can do everything Rebels can, but better. Scum now has Regen, and Empire can throw lots of dice, both of which were the Rebel's "Thing."

Gonk is totally going to roll over anything, yeah...[/sarcasm]

You realise that it is 2actions (!) needed per shield to regen? That's really poor compared to rebel regen. Stress that ship, no regen. Compare that to rebel regen options....

Than for whining about "stealing" the faction's "thing": the bombing faction should be empire, but right now rebels do it a lot better with broad margin.

just to warn u u have some things wrong in your post ill name a few.

1-boosk cant one shot an a-wing that gets 3 evades 4 attack dice minus 3 make it one then boosk changes that one to two damage thats only two shields. not a one shot a-wing

2- the sycks title is 2pts

3-3 of the 4 shuttle pilots have EPTs and its a good thing the vcx-100 dosent have an ept or it would be op. (think most people can agree on that one)

u must not play rebels a whole lot cause didnt they get 1st and 2nd in last years worlds? dont think there doing as bad as u think. just cause u cant take 5-6 named pilots dosent mean the games broken or no fun play epic? rebel ships are better then imperial stat wise thats why there more points.

think u should step back and relook at the game and u might find it really not as bad as u think stay away from the sky is falling thinking and u will be fine.

so i cant take you serious cause u dont read the cards or even look on a list builder or u would know some of the basics of each ships.

Lemme correct your corrections. The Ghost sucks balls. It will see exactly no competitive use because it has a bad dial, is stupid expensive, relies on an expensive gimmick, and isnt a PWT. So no, having EPT on Lothal Rebel wouldnt barely do anything to make the VCX viable.

Just because the best player in the world can win worlds with Rebels, doesnt mean Rebels are a good faction. Scum and Empire can do everything Rebels can, but better. Scum now has Regen, and Empire can throw lots of dice, both of which were the Rebel's "Thing."

Just, can we stop using Paul Heaver as an example to "prove" that Rebels are still fine? None of us are Paul Heaver. Only Paul Heaver is Paul Heaver. I dont and never will play as well as Paul Heaver does, as well as everyone else in this thread. If the only way for Rebel 4-or-less ship builds to win against popular Imperial builds is to "Just have the skill of the best player in the world," then that on it's own is a damning argument.

Bahahahaha.

Paul heaver's not the only person who took Rebels to worlds. Top 2 were both rebel, with 4 rebel lists in the top 8. That's 50% of the top 8. 8 of the top 16 lists were rebel.

As for the ghost, it's a rather fantastic ship. We had 2 ghost lists (and 3 actual ghosts) in the top 4 of our final store championship over the weekend. I went 5-0 in the vassal league's first round with it with a different list, and am 15-1 with that list. The dial is actually quite nice, it can be flown with or without the docked shuttle, and doesn't need a PWT. You just have to learn how to actually fly the ship, instead of just circling like a fat PWT ship.

That argument changes exactly nothing. All of those players made the top tables at worlds. I will never do that, as i will never be skilled enough to do that. The local store/regional experience is that Palp on a thing plus 2 things is dominating and rarely loses. The best players in the world play a different meta than we do.

The ship just came out. Nobody has had time to formulate accepted defenses against it and it's cards. Not understanding a matchup against a ship doesnt make that ship good. It's garbo, and i will never be flying it, because Dash and Han are better in nearly every way.

Dash Rendar is 36 points base. Hera is 40. Hera has no EPT; Dash does. Dash also has a PWT. That he can mount HLC to, which ignores range combat bonuses at range 3. He can also barrel roll natively. The Ghost requires you to spend a minimum of 18 more points to be able to fire it's primaries in half the arc that Dash can fire his weapon. It's dial is also objectively worse than the YT-2400, with 4 more red maneuvers than it. Dash has 2 agility, the VCX has zero, instead choosing to have more hitpoints.

Dash is more maneuverable, dodges better, has large-base barrel roll, a better dial, a PWT that mounts a cannon of your choice, an EPT slot, and doesnt rely on a dumb, expensive gimmick to work properly. And it's cheaper than Hera by 4 points. Dash is cheaper than than the cheapest VCX pilot, Chopper, who's at PS4 and is only useful as a blocker.

But yeah, the VCX is a good ship that was designed well and priced appropriately. Yep. Totally.

I think you may be thinking of the wrong Hera on the Ghost. Hera crew + FCS will make an amazingly strong cheap Ghost option. The Space Rhino plays a bit differently than other ships. I mean, toss Gunner on there, an you have a crazy version of Iggy. For a bit cheaper.