Hi folks,

Obviously, the Tractor Beam and Boba Fett both raise a lot of questions regarding the limits of their effects. I saw that folks have already decided pretty plainly (thank to the FAQ) that tractor beam tokens force the small based ship that has been overlapped onto an obstacle to take the risk of damage that obstacle presents.

Imagine this: A ship with a tractor beam and Boba Fett successfully hits and moves the defending ship onto an asteroid. That player then tests to determine if they take damage from the asteroid and end up taking a critical damage. The ship has no shields, so they are dealt a faceup damage card. Hypothetically in this situation, Boba Fett would also trigger and the attacking player may also discard one of the defender's equipment cards.

My question is this: Does the consequence of overlapping an obstacle resolve within Boba Fett's window to trigger?

My conclusion is that, based on the wording of the combat rules, tractor beam token reference card, tractor beam card, and boba fett card, the defending player would resolve the consequence for overlapping an obstacle immediately after receiving the tractor beam token, which occurs before the tractor beam attack cancels all dice results, meaning that the process for resolving overlapping an obstacle occurs, in its entirety, before the tractor beam's attack concludes, thereby allowing Boba Fett to trigger.

The reason is this:

Tractor Beam Token Reference Card Rules:

"The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round" the attacking player performs the forced movement of the defending player. This suggests that the effects trigger immediately, as the effects described would be resolved as soon as the token is given.

Tractor Beam:

"If this attack hits, the defend receives 1 tractor beam token, then cancel all dice results." This means that the token is given specifically before the conclusion of the attack, as there are additional steps to resolve following the resolution of the token's assignment.

Boba Fett:

"After performing an attack, if the defender was dealt a faceup damage card" This means that Boba Fett come as close to last as possible in regards to testing whether or not the player took a faceup damage card - it seems unreasonable to assume that with the wording of this card, Boba Fett can "miss" his opportunity to trigger if any faceup damage is dealt as a consequence of the "an attack" that allows him to consider triggering.

So even though the tractor beam deals no damage, it is an attack and the tractor beam token's resolution appears to take place before the Compare Results step (which is when I understand an action like canceling all dice results would occur). Boba Fett seems to trigger either at the conclusion of or immediately after the Deal Damage phase, before the next ship activates.

It seems like we really need a clarification on when overlapping is resolved during the combat phase, since the scenario has been previously unprecedented. Until then, I haven't found anything that would make the above not seem to be the case.

Compare Results occurs before you actually give someone a tractor beam token. If you haven't compared results you don't know if they were hit by the tractor beam at all.

Right, so I say this because of the ruling on Wampa - where they can cancel all dice results "when attacking" with no condition, at the start of the Compare Results step - but you're right, I crossed a wire there.

The tractor beam token would still have to be assigned before the attack is determined to deal no damage, however - even if it's all within the Deal Damage step.

Sounds right. The barrel roll/boost and damage from asteroid happens within the attack. Boba triggers after the attack.

I think the damage from being TB'd onto an asteroid doesn't count as part of the attack and therefore would not be a trigger for Boba. It's the ship on the asteroid that rolls for possible damage, and it's the asteroid that's causing the damage, not the attack. It's just consequential damage, not attack damage.

That's the way I see it. But a ruling from FFG probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

By the rules as written, tractoring a ship onto an obstacle will not result in a damage roll, until the ship tries to leave the obstacle on the following turn.

But I'm a monarchist.

By the rules as written, tractoring a ship onto an obstacle will not result in a damage roll, until the ship tries to leave the obstacle on the following turn.

But I'm a monarchist.

This we are already debating in other threads. And you are still wrong. When tractored onto an obstacle you suffer the effects of that obstacle as if you had performed a maneuver that overlapped it. So you roll for damage, and if that damage results in a Critical Damage card being dealt, Boba Fett can trigger.

I think the damage from being TB'd onto an asteroid doesn't count as part of the attack and therefore would not be a trigger for Boba. It's the ship on the asteroid that rolls for possible damage, and it's the asteroid that's causing the damage, not the attack. It's just consequential damage, not attack damage.

That's the way I see it. But a ruling from FFG probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

I agree with Parravon. It's the asteroid that causes the damage and not a damage result from an attack.

I think the damage from being TB'd onto an asteroid doesn't count as part of the attack and therefore would not be a trigger for Boba. It's the ship on the asteroid that rolls for possible damage, and it's the asteroid that's causing the damage, not the attack. It's just consequential damage, not attack damage.

That's the way I see it. But a ruling from FFG probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

I agree with Parravon. It's the asteroid that causes the damage and not a damage result from an attack.

My issue with that line of thinking is that the Boba Fett card doesn't require the faceup damage card to be dealt as the result of the attack, there just needs to be an attack, and within the window of that attack's resolution, a faceup damage card.

I think the damage from being TB'd onto an asteroid doesn't count as part of the attack and therefore would not be a trigger for Boba. It's the ship on the asteroid that rolls for possible damage, and it's the asteroid that's causing the damage, not the attack. It's just consequential damage, not attack damage.

That's the way I see it. But a ruling from FFG probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

I agree with Parravon. It's the asteroid that causes the damage and not a damage result from an attack.

The damage caused by driving the ship to an asteroid with a Tractor Beam attack. Boba does not care if the damage comes from a laser blast or an asteroid. Boba will get you anyway. Boba da man.

By the rules as written, tractoring a ship onto an obstacle will not result in a damage roll, until the ship tries to leave the obstacle on the following turn.

But I'm a monarchist.

This we are already debating in other threads. And you are still wrong. When tractored onto an obstacle you suffer the effects of that obstacle as if you had performed a maneuver that overlapped it. So you roll for damage, and if that damage results in a Critical Damage card being dealt, Boba Fett can trigger.

To support StephenEsven:

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures FAQ, Version 4.1.1/Effective* 04.2.2016 in Section 1: Errata, page 2:

TRACTOR BEAM REFERENCE CARD

This card should read:

A ship with at least one tractor beam token assigned to it follows special rules during these phases:

• Combat Phase: The agility value of that ship is reduced by 1 for each tractor beam token, to a minimum of 0.
• End Phase: Remove all tractor beam tokens from this ship.

The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player may choose one of the following effects:

• Perform a barrel roll using the [straight 1] maneuver template. The opposing player selects the direction of the barrel roll and the final position of the ship.
• Perform a boost using the [straight 1] maneuver template.

This is not an action or a maneuver, and can cause the ship to overlap obstacles (but not other ships). The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps.

*Technically, if you want to bicker over exactly how things are written, Vulf can argue his point right up until April 2, 2016. Then he will be wrong, but technically, as written, he isn't wrong yet.

How do you skip your "perform action step" if you are in the combat phase?

By applying the golden rule.

By applying the golden rule.

That makes no sense. By the time it is the combat phase you have already passed the perform action step of the activation phase.

By applying the golden rule.

By this, I'm assuming that you mean "Do what the card says, and don't do what the card doesn't say to do"?

Here are some examples of perfectly correct sentences in the english language that lead to confusion.

The complex houses married and single soldiers and their families.

The man the professor the student has studies Rome.

And for fun, a Marx Brothers, "One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas, I'll never know."

Again, all three are grammatically correct. But all three have different ways of correctly interpreting them.

Just because someone doesn't read a sentence and come to the same conclusion as you, don't assume them to be wrong.

The discussion about whether or not a ship suffers the consequences for overlapping an obstacle has already been clarified with the latest FAQ, but the discussion regarding that is being handled in another thread: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205732-tractor-beam-and-obstacles/

This one is more specifically about determining whether or not it's reasonable to assume that these consequences can be regarded as part of the attack.

Which, to bolster Wizzard's comment - it really boils down to how people read 'attack' on Boba's card. The people I find who disagree consider the attack to be the immediate results of the attack dice, while those who agree see attack as the entire sequence of resolving the one ship's activation for the combat phase.

I believe the former group is just describing the shot of the attack.

I think the damage from being TB'd onto an asteroid doesn't count as part of the attack and therefore would not be a trigger for Boba.

After performing an attack, if the defender was dealt a faceup Damage card, you may discard this card to choose and discard 1 of the defender's Upgrade cards.

The card doesn't say after you deal a faceup damage card. Just that one was dealt to a ship after you performed an attack on that ship. So RAW I think asteroid damage caused during the attack would count for Boba. But a FAQ would be good.

I gotta admit, my gut tells me that the asteroid damage doesn't count as part of the attack and it's just a bonus. My thoughts behind the logic are that any damage cards dealt must come from the attacker. But, it's still a hairy little scenario, and I agree with VanorDM that FFG might need to be asked about it.

Well my way involves some pretty serious RAW.

Because the card simply says it has to be dealt a face up card, no where does it say that card had to come as part of the compare results step.

So anything at all that happens in the attack sequence that would deal a face up card would count. This of course assumes that any damage done by the asteroid happens during the attack sequence, and not outside of it.

How do you skip your "perform action step" if you are in the combat phase?

If your ship moves at PS 2 and my PS 4 K-Wing moves and slugs a Conner Net into your ship. The token immediately detonates because it has overlapped your ship's base. Your ship suffers 1 damage, receives 2 ion tokens, and "skips its 'Perform Action' step." Then I discard the token.

By the same logic I will never reach the instruction to "discard this token" if your ship never "skips its 'Perform Action' step." So how do you justify me discarding the Conner Net token after it detonates?

I gotta admit, my gut tells me that the asteroid damage doesn't count as part of the attack and it's just a bonus. My thoughts behind the logic are that any damage cards dealt must come from the attacker. But, it's still a hairy little scenario, and I agree with VanorDM that FFG might need to be asked about it.

this is not the only way this could happen.

Imagine shooting an Ion cannon from a YV-666 with Greedo and Boba Fett, against a ship with 1 shield left, and Dace Bonearm in range for his ability.

If the Ion Cannon Hits, it strips the last shield token, then Dace triggers, and deals a damage, which Greedo makes dealt face up. Now you can trigger Boba Fett.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205732-tractor-beam-and-obstacles/?p=2121054

Looks like we have our answer, according to gekigangerev:

Question:

2. Does the Boba Fett crew card trigger when dealt a crit from an asteroid. For instance, if Fett is on a ship with Tractor Beam, and Boba Fett's ship pushes an enemy ship onto an asteroid or debris field. After the enemy ship rolls a crit due to overlapping the obstacle, can I trigger Boba Fett's crew ability?

My email came from Wade in Organized Play.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205732-tractor-beam-and-obstacles/?p=2121054

Looks like we have our answer, according to gekigangerev:

Question:

2. Does the Boba Fett crew card trigger when dealt a crit from an asteroid. For instance, if Fett is on a ship with Tractor Beam, and Boba Fett's ship pushes an enemy ship onto an asteroid or debris field. After the enemy ship rolls a crit due to overlapping the obstacle, can I trigger Boba Fett's crew ability?

Answer:

2. Yes. Boba Fett’s ability is merely based off of the ship suffering a faceup Damage card, the source is unspecified.

As above. The attack, nor the attacker’s ability needs to cause the damage. In fact, the defender might have an ability that they use during the attack that causes them to suffer a faceup damage. (I’m unaware of any of those at this time, but there might already be one).

He answered a question about Boba Fett's effect being from any source during the attack. I'm betting they haven't realized the tractor rules are as broken as they are.

The new Salvaged Astromech R5-P8 can cause both the attacker and the defender to take a point of damage, and maybe one of you has Greedo equipped. Also you could Tractor someone into their own Proximity mines and they crit themselves again.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205732-tractor-beam-and-obstacles/?p=2121054

Looks like we have our answer, according to gekigangerev:

Question:

2. Does the Boba Fett crew card trigger when dealt a crit from an asteroid. For instance, if Fett is on a ship with Tractor Beam, and Boba Fett's ship pushes an enemy ship onto an asteroid or debris field. After the enemy ship rolls a crit due to overlapping the obstacle, can I trigger Boba Fett's crew ability?

Answer:

2. Yes. Boba Fett’s ability is merely based off of the ship suffering a faceup Damage card, the source is unspecified.

As above. The attack, nor the attacker’s ability needs to cause the damage. In fact, the defender might have an ability that they use during the attack that causes them to suffer a faceup damage. (I’m unaware of any of those at this time, but there might already be one).

He answered a question about Boba Fett's effect being from any source during the attack. I'm betting they haven't realized the tractor rules are as broken as they are.

The new Salvaged Astromech R5-P8 can cause both the attacker and the defender to take a point of damage, and maybe one of you has Greedo equipped. Also you could Tractor someone into their own Proximity mines and they crit themselves again.

No I didn't. The question clearly says "...Boba Fett's [crew] ship pushes an enemy ship onto an asteroid or debris field". The only thing that can move ships outside of movement is Tractor Beam.