I'm a little bothered by the EPT, it must be said.

Not because of theme, but because it, double-tubes, scums action economy droids and a crew slot to top it off make this thing the single best ordinance carrier to date; better even than TIE Bombers with long range sensors will be (deadeye obviates this need for Scouts, and they get chips on top - LRS is chipless even when it's getting you action economy).

Why is this a problem? Because it means that if the current 'fixes' aren't enough to get TIE Bombers and ordnance Ys, Ks and Bs on the table... It's too late.

Because fixing them further will only boost the jumpmaster even higher.

So, you can spend 9 points to put upgrades on a 9 health 25 point ship and get two modified four dice attacks, reverting to two dice after. Or you can spend 9 points to put upgrades on an 8 health 22 point ship and have every attack be a modified four dice attack.

That 9 HP is behind an extra point of Agility and it's got a turret that will still do plenty of damage to most 0-2 Agility ships while they are out of arc.

The dial is better too. Also barrel roll.

That was a good thought. I bet Rebel Vets is an E and a Y Wing. Y's have two torpedo slots, making them great torpedo boats. Sure, not as accurate as the JumpMaster, but they still make for solid alpha strikers. Hell, one of em can have an EPT at least. I guess you can't have a three ship clone squad, but you could have a very diverse torpedo squad that would make you more unpredictable than a same ship squad.

Time will say if we will see Torpedo Carriers Y Wings...or not. Probably yes if you want to include one. But I doubt we will.see 3-4 Y wings in a squadron with ordnance, in competitive environment. When Iconic ships are overshadowed by new ships, those are bad news to me. The EPT slot, to be or not to be...

And I think the Jumpmaster is a good expansion and funny to play. But we see on a regular basis that new ships make old ones less and less playable. Want X wing ? Play T 70. Torpedo carrier? Jumpmaster...

The Y-wing's a full seven points cheaper than the Jumpmaster, and Wave 8 introduced a cheap turret option in the form of the Dorsal.

It can also be used for bombing, the Jumpmaster cannot.

Torpedoes don't need the Agromech/Deadeye combo. I'd go as far as to say it may even be overkill on the Proton Torpedo.

Time will say if we will see Torpedo Carriers Y Wings...or not. Probably yes if you want to include one. But I doubt we will.see 3-4 Y wings in a squadron with ordnance, in competitive environment. When Iconic ships are overshadowed by new ships, those are bad news to me. The EPT slot, to be or not to be...

And I think the Jumpmaster is a good expansion and funny to play. But we see on a regular basis that new ships make old ones less and less playable. Want X wing ? Play T 70. Torpedo carrier? Jumpmaster...

Show me a time beforehand where you were seeing T-65 X-wings or Y-wings with ordnance and I will sell you a bridge. Unfortunately, some of the iconic Star Wars ships in this game were not designed ideally and/or some of their mechanics just weren't well thought out.

The Jumpmaster has the Deadeye+R4+Chips+Extra Munitions combo.

That fixes:

- Cost problem (Extra Munitions)

- Poor action economy, that led to unmodified attack rolls (R4 + Chips)

- More importantly, poor attack window, needing to have the target locked in order to even fire (Deadeye).

Those 3 problems have had to be fixed to suddenly turn ordnance into a desirable thing.

So, the Y-Wing (and other ships like the Bombers and the B-Wings) should (and probably will) get something to address all those problems.

- Cost problem is already sorted out with Extra Munitions.

- Action economy could be somehow solved by Esege Tuketu, Targetting Astromech, Fleet Officer on a TIE Shuttle, or perhaps Long Range Scanners or Tracers. But all these solutions are more expensive and less convenient than the two R4 droids from scum.

- Attack window is yet to be addressed for both Imperial and Rebel bombers.

Scum sort of have a theme of mid-to-low PS EPTs. They are individualistic rogues who do things their own way. Rebel and Imperial basic ships often don't have an EPT because they're just the faceless grunts of the war. If they had elite talents, they'd have been promoted into one of the fancier squadrons (Green! Black!) or we would know their name and their unique talent would be printed on their card.

They already established this pattern with the cheapest Firespray and all Aggressor pilots having EPTs. Frankly, the Trandoshan Slaver is the odd man out as the only Scum large base ship that doesn't have an EPT in it's cheapest iteration.

The YV-666 has 3 crew slots. And Scum has some amazing faction-only crew. I think it does alright.

Dengar crew on any of the YV-666s is pretty cool. Gonk, Outlaw Tech, that security droid, Scum crew is where it is at.

My understanding as to why wave one Y-wings don't have EPT's is Ion Cannon Turret + Expert Handling.

Having the option to barrel roll comes close to giving the ICT range three.

A fairly powerful combo back in those days when the only ships on the table were X/Y-wings, Tie/Ln's and advanced

Long Range Sensors

Was there this type of anger when Green Squadron A's were released?

[irony] They even get 2 EPTs with the A-wing-test-pilot title, *whine* [/irony]

Title : Gifted Veteran ( Y wing only, cost 1 ) if no EPT icon on the card, add one. Minimun PS 3

Simple, easy...

The easiest fix to square up y wings and the jumpmaster is to make deadeye unique.

Title : Gifted Veteran ( Y wing only, cost 1 ) if no EPT icon on the card, add one. Minimun PS 3

Simple, easy...

Or just release new pilot cards. Dutch and Horton don't desperately need EPTs.

I agree. The most desperate pilots in x wing looking for an EPT slot are Red X wing and Grey Y wing. The two Rebelion's workhorses...

I hate it when people pull the whole argument of EU vs. Iconic, and try to use that to justify making "iconic" ships OP just so they can be purists.

Let the EU ships come, just because you don't like them doesn't mean others don't as well.

That said, I am still waiting on the errata of Horton's card to include an EPT. (FFG, it's not that hard to say we screwed up, here's your EPT)

Also as others have pointed out, R2-D6 and Kavil.

Stresshog is 26 points. That's going to perform way better than any 25 point Contracted Scout. When are you going to run a naked JM5000 anyways?

You can also make a pretty decent Y-Wing on the cheap. A JM5000 is going to run you round 32-35 points, probably more unless you're going for the triple threat. Even then you're hiding a mere 10 health behind two measly greens, and without spending the points you're basically flying a Tie fighter as far as red dice go. When you're stressed and you want an action you're as easy to read as a dime store novel. The Y-Wing can take a 1 point droid and open it's dial up like no other ship.

Stop worrying about the EPT slot. If it's got one you should be putting Adaptability in there anyways, so take that X-Wing 2.0!

If FFG goes the way of editions I'm out. There is a reason why 40k is dying.

Edit: Also, Leia's Y-Wing/Rebel Veterans could fix all your Y-Wing related gripes anyways so... ha!

I hate it when people pull the whole argument of EU vs. Iconic, and try to use that to justify making "iconic" ships OP just so they can be purists.

If we really stuck to only the Iconic ships... We'd have what 2 or 3 per side?

X-Wing, Falcon, Tie Fighter, Tie Advanced...

Y-Wings, A-Wings, B-Wings are not really iconic, not like those ones are. Neither are Interceptors or Bombers. The Tie Advanced would only really be iconic because Vader in the trench run.

Let the EU ships come, just because you don't like them doesn't mean others don't as well.

I'm just glad the stresshog isn't going to be all that great anymore. Ordnance heavy lists really don't care about it. They will blast it before it does a whole lot. I am so sick of seeing it in every single Rebel list you face. Nearly as sick of it as Soontir Fel.

Stresshog is 26 points.

Could also shell out 2 extra points on the Stresshog to fire before the Scouts; stop one from firing for two turns and closing down their dial considerably.

Kind of off topic, but doesn't Dark Curse kind of screw the triple U-Boat list? Granted it's only one ship, and the scouts still have a primary, but still...

Anyway, on topic. Yeah, it stinks that there's no generic Y or T-65 with an EPT. Still, generics with elite talents are kind of becoming scum's "thing". And even if they had the slot on Y-Wings, TLT is just a better option than ordinance. Plasma torps and extra munitions are 5 points, 6 with deadeye, to say nothing of the opportunity cost to use an astromech specifically to enhance ordinance. TLT is 6 points. And you get more than 2 shots all game. Again, this is apples and oranges, since we are comparing rebel Y's with a scum large ship, but let's go with it. Imagine a world where the Jumpmaster had a turret slot. If you think for a second that PTL, unhinged astromech, TLT, and engine upgrade wouldn't be everywhere, you're insane. Ordinance still isn't great (look at all the moving parts that need to come together to make a single ordinance carrier viable), and this is years after the Y-Wing's release. Don't forget that from wave 2 to wave 6 Y-Wings weren't just not viable as an ordinance carrier, they straight up weren't viable. Period, full stop. They have seen a resurgence, and FFG clearly cares about bringing them back in a competitive way (same with X-Wings...I hope). This is one wave. Wait and see if the scout-pocalypse is actually a thing, and also maybe wait until FFG (hopefully) announced a rebel veterans pack with fixes (I would prefer X/E fixes, but I'm more than fine X/Y as long as the X gets some love.

I hate it when people pull the whole argument of EU vs. Iconic, and try to use that to justify making "iconic" ships OP just so they can be purists.

If we really stuck to only the Iconic ships... We'd have what 2 or 3 per side?

X-Wing, Falcon, Tie Fighter, Tie Advanced...

Y-Wings, A-Wings, B-Wings are not really iconic, not like those ones are. Neither are Interceptors or Bombers. The Tie Advanced would only really be iconic because Vader in the trench run.

Exactly, All we ever see of Y-wings is them blowing up. A-wings I do contest because they did have fairly large roles in the one film they were in. B-wings and bombers both have pretty much 5 seconds on screen, and Interceptors are sort of there like Ys.

A-wings I do contest because they did have fairly large roles in the one film they were in.

Maybe, but is that enough to be considered Iconic? I think that's a term that is misused. To me an Iconic ship is one that if you were to show a picture of it to 10 random people on the street at least 6-7 would know where it came from and maybe what it was.