I don't understand how any imp player. With a rhymer ball, with bombers, wouldn't LOVE the reroll black dice. Effect of the flotilla.

In my last store champ. It would probably have won my game of 5/6 hit instead of 2/6

I'll reserve judgement until I see the rest of the upgrade cards. I will say this much: That bomber upgrade card allowing bombers to re-roll will most certainly shift the meta towards the rhymer ball. I hope they have a card to counter it, otherwise games are about to get a lot longer with both sides packing a larger amount of squadrons.

Personally, the floatillas seem just enough to change the game by adding a new ship type AND upgrade slots. If they're keeping the points at 400 for now, then it's probably best that they didn't introduce any new ships yet as I know some people are barely wrapping their heads around wave 2. At most, I think we'll see new squadron packs...but that's it....and I'm fine with that.

The game

Okay. I'm not excited by the flotillas. They might start to look more interesting as more previews come along, but I won't guess at that.

That said, I like the stuff I have, and I'll keep playing a game I think is awesome. I love Armada for the game it is, not for the potential to eat up all of my discretionary funding.

Exactly. Wave 3 is fine. Maybe there will be more stuff. Maybe there won't. Flotillas aren't sexy but really, shy of an Executor there's just not that much to add that'd be iconic rather than included for the sake of included.

Personally, maybe just because I'm new but I feel like there's still a ton to unpack in Armada and I'd rather there be slow, measured releases than a ton of garbage that destroys what is, for the most part, a very well balanced game so I can have "moar moar MOAR!"

I don't understand how any imp player. With a rhymer ball, with bombers, wouldn't LOVE the re-roll black dice. Effect of the flotilla.

Because the cost of the Flotilla has to come from somewhere and you have to consider the cost of the change. Would you spend about 30 points to take a re-roll on your TIE Bombers, why wouldn't 3 more bombers be better?

In my last store champ. It would probably have won my game of 5/6 hit instead of 2/6

If the flotilla was free sure, but where are you going to drop about 30 points from? That's a fair number of upgrades or a ship being sacrificed for a slightly better chance or improving your expected outcomes.

For me, personally, it comes from the CR90 that usually fills the remainder of my points in both my Rieekan list (includes CR90B w/ SW-7s) and my Garm list (TRC90). I'd happily give those up for the buffs, activations, and overall annoyance of trying to kill the flotillas (scatter is soooo annoying). I'm hoping I can fit two flotillas in place of those single CR90s.

Like Truthiness, that 30ish points will be coming from the 'add-on activiation' Raider-I palling around in my list. If I'm getting a ship that gives me an activation, the ability to improve my bombers/fighters, acts as an impromptu anti-aircraft battery, higher potential squadron activation numbers, -and- may have points left over for another bomber after that, with 5-ish points to spare: I feel like I'm coming out pretty far ahead. If it's not eating up my squadron allocation and It's not cutting the lean muscle from my ISD's, then I'm all for it.

Scatter is annoying on a Squadron, on a ship however, I think you are just providing ammunition for Intel Officers.

As for the Bomber Command Center, I think there is still a cost to it, at 8 points it has the same opportunity cost as a bomber and there is a bit of maths in figuring is the re-roll worth it or the extra bomber. Maybe at 3 or less the extra bomber is the way to go, at 5+ you'll probably get more from the BCC. I think 4 bombers would be a judgment call. But then Ship + Upgrade + Squadron may well be an easy choice than just Ship.

But then, as for the difference between the Raider/CR90 and the Flotillas there is I think still a bit of a consideration to either, some of the differences are just plain and simple unknown. What is the speeds, of the Flotillas, the yaw values at the various speeds, perhaps they are not as maneuverable as the other ships in your fleet and may affect the way the ships around them fly. BCC has a range to its effect, so you are some what limited as to where you can go, unlike the Raider you are going to want to stay near the squadrons, which will telegraph your move a little more, if you are going speed 3 then you will be only 2-3 distance off the squadrons after you move the flotilla which will have you at medium/long range. Rhymer buys a turn at beyond long, so that isn't bad at all.

Squadrons with Intel that can free up a few rogues will prove to be interesting at chasing down flotillas.

I am not saying that the Flotillas won't be worth it, I think the 2 Squadron is what has me intrigued. In some fleets they will have great utility and function, in others very little.

In any case I am enjoying this discussion far more than the "I am going to burn my ships and cast their ashes to the winds!", so take my comments as they are me playing a bit of Devil's Advocate just to have some interesting chatter.

Please. Record you burning all your ships and post it on youtube. Please do this.

Ps heard ffg released only these two ships hoping folks would rage quit, the in a month they will announce wave 4 yhat will draw all thr admnelson's back and force them to tebuy their 1k in ships

I hrard this too, from a guy that works across the street from this dude's cousin who has this kid, anyway this kid's teacher has a dog and she was saying, the teacher not the dog, that sometimes people just get so caught up with themselves they can't help it so they end up drinking a lot of soda and eating too much chips but that's okay cause hey, dentists need love too even if they are horrible and hurt you in the mouth and break their own toys. At least that's what he said.

If I get to use scatter even once against a ship or bomber-run, then it'll probably make that flotilla last longer than my poor poor Raider. Intel officer or not And if it's using Intel officer on a flotilla, it's not using it on a bigger ship's more useful defences.

Hmmm, I think you're quite right on the bomber command centre, Amanal. Naturally, it might also rely on the quantity of bombers compared to its quality. I mean, dual-dice bombers are nice now, but it's a single reroll per attack: would it be better to go with single-die attack craft with a few extra hull points to maximize how long they stick around while increasing the number of deployment drops at the cost of increased demands on ship-borne activations (which is mildly offset by the flotillas presumed higher relative squadron command value)?

Now that you mention it, 4-ish bombers is probably the judgement call, and therefore that could heavily factor in to BCC favouring Rebels, given the proportionally higher number of squadrons with Bomber that can be used in combination with the upgrade. A Tie advanced isn't going to get that reroll, but an Advanced is very much a critical insurance policy in a typical Imperial bomber group (and a to-date, good because of the reliability of the black die. Now it's still not losing its potency, but it won't be gaining any extra benefit from a somewhat costly upgrade). Rebel X-wings, on the other hand, work perfectly in tandem with something like Y-wings, which make BCC a fairly attractive choice given the potential benefits for both in a DS Trench Run strike force.

Aye, that's the big one right now, speed, manoeuvrability, and upgrades. Not that the Raider is exactly nimble at high speeds, and I'm still wondering how this will slot into an MC80 list, but I hear ya'. It's something we're just going to have to wait and see about. I will admit that I feel relieved at distance 1-5 rather than 'medium range' like activations. It's not too horrendous to stay inside a 12” radius for a few turns, but because of the inherent danger of overlapping and having a flotilla split up a carefully laid out formation, I don't want to have them too ridiculously close to my squadrons.

Rogues are probably something to be quite wary about, of course, but scatter does seem a little more kind to the flotilla than small ship defences now. I'll admit having lost more than one crippled corvette or Nebulon to a single flight and wishing I had something like scatter. So it depends where the resources are spent: using 2-3 units of Rogues to polish off a flotilla in a turn seems risky too. It's dicy, either way, but such is the nature of scatter, eh?

It will depend on the fleet, and it may rely on the faction. But either way, it's an interesting choice and a nice variety for avoiding a raider/corvette tax just to get the activations/ship numbers to avoid a tabling. I don't think it's an automatic choice by any standard, but it's a fascinating one nonetheless.

And yeah, this is tons better than Doom and Gloom Inc.

Battlefleet Gothic Armada is a computer game ...

How does this compare to a miniatures game?

Besides I would love Battlefleet Gothic as a miniatures game by FFG ...

However, the one from GW is still gold.

I've heard a bit about rage quitting and Armada lately? Why would anyone want to play any game by GW?

Because they do have games that are a lot of fun with good designed and manufactiured miniatures in a great background?

I've heard a bit about rage quitting and Armada lately? Why would anyone want to play any game by GW?

Because they do have games that are a lot of fun with good designed and manufactiured miniatures in a great background?

In most cases that's past tense. I will never forgive them for Fantasy. After years of neglect, they opted to nuke the most developed fantasy universe out there in favor of Space Marine wannabes. Sadly, they neglected and ruined most of their other games. Blood Bowl and BFG come to mind as great games that they didn't support. The only thing they really have left is the 40k universe. It remains a great universe with some wonderful Black Library stories, but they continue to run the game's rules into the ground.

My normal carrier fleet as Rebels is An AF2 with flight controllers and extended hangers to run the fighters, and an M80 for the bombers. I'm liking the idea of using 2 or 3 flotillas instead and keeping them tucked in behind the AF2

In most cases that's past tense. I will never forgive them for Fantasy. After years of neglect, they opted to nuke the most developed fantasy universe out there in favor of Space Marine wannabes. Sadly, they neglected and ruined most of their other games. Blood Bowl and BFG come to mind as great games that they didn't support. The only thing they really have left is the 40k universe. It remains a great universe with some wonderful Black Library stories, but they continue to run the game's rules into the ground.

We're getting way off topic now, but the end of Fantasy was simply the natural result of any game with a large buy-in.

The cost of getting into the game was prohibitive due to the number of models needed. And older players already had all the models they needed. So essentially, NO ONE was buying WHFB any more. Not in the numbers they needed to to keep the line alive.

And they're trying really hard not to put 40K in the same place, by encouraging allies and formations so much. I don't know how it's going to work out for them though.

I think the biggest problem with 40K is that it wants to play like a beer-and-pretzels game, but the cost to play, in terms of time and money, is enormous and with those kinds of stakes, people won't tolerate the RNG, broken-ass imbalanced rules that GW puts out.

I don't understand how any imp player. With a rhymer ball, with bombers, wouldn't LOVE the re-roll black dice. Effect of the flotilla.

Because the cost of the Flotilla has to come from somewhere and you have to consider the cost of the change. Would you spend about 30 points to take a re-roll on your TIE Bombers, why wouldn't 3 more bombers be better?

In my last store champ. It would probably have won my game of 5/6 hit instead of 2/6

If the flotilla was free sure, but where are you going to drop about 30 points from? That's a fair number of upgrades or a ship being sacrificed for a slightly better chance or improving your expected outcomes.

Taking those ISD/VSD Mk Is instead of Mk IIs will free up points. Rerolled black dice make these "obsolete" ships more interesting to people that have already written them off.

While I do not agree with the public pessimistic view of some players, isn't it about time to stop with all these "sell us the ships" mockery? Nowadays and especially on the Internet, everybody should be able to share his toughts and his points of view, and sneering at him doesn't lead to anything at all.

On the other hand, I also do not agree with FFG news policy that clearly didn't put an end on the "are the trasports all the Wave 3, or is there more" discussion, but this is another topic..

The only reasonable course of action is to throw all your figures away and then post about it. Repeatedly.

Yes, you must package your trash and mail it to my address.

While I do not agree with the public pessimistic view of some players, isn't it about time to stop with all these "sell us the ships" mockery? Nowadays and especially on the Internet, everybody should be able to share his toughts and his points of view, and sneering at him doesn't lead to anything at all.

They have a right to share what they want, but I have a right to my reaction as well. I'm sorry, but reaction to any rage-quitting at AdmiralNelson level will always be some level of mockery. At the end of the days, you're raging about toys. There are so many things that matter far more.

I understand disappointment. I'm not mocking those that are expressing reasonable disappointment. I'm excited now because of the possibilies I'm seeing, but my initial reaction was disappointment as well. I completely understand that perspective. I'm mocking those that are angry to the point of declaring the game dead because we got a smaller release than they wanted.

We're getting way off topic now, but the end of Fantasy was simply the natural result of any game with a large buy-in.The cost of getting into the game was prohibitive due to the number of models needed. And older players already had all the models they needed. So essentially, NO ONE was buying WHFB any more. Not in the numbers they needed to to keep the line alive.And they're trying really hard not to put 40K in the same place, by encouraging allies and formations so much. I don't know how it's going to work out for them though.I think the biggest problem with 40K is that it wants to play like a beer-and-pretzels game, but the cost to play, in terms of time and money, is enormous and with those kinds of stakes, people won't tolerate the RNG, broken-ass imbalanced rules that GW puts out.

GW went a full year without releasing a new Army Book from February 2010 to March 2011. 8th edition was released in between that in July 2010. That means not only did they drop a radically new version of the game (as much as I ended up liking 8th edition, it was a dramatic departure), they did not support it in any meaningful way for 8 months. This was further exacerbated by the horrible imbalance of the lingering 7th edition books, such as Skaven (which was never updated in 8th edition's 5 year lifespan). If you look at their sales for the End Times, they spiked immensely. It just shows that when you don't support a game, it languishes.

To bring it home full circle, some of the complaints about FFG are apt in comparison. They will be giving us 8 months with no releases assuming they deliver wave 3 in July. I have been firmly in the "concerned" crowd about the lack of news in recent months. However, the game is well balanced at the moment, they continue to give us FAQ updates, and they're actively supporting and encouraging the tournament scene. None of that was true with 8th edition Warhammer. If they are able to deliver wave 3 by July, which looks to be a significant game changer even with its small size, and are able to deliver a wave 4 by December, I would call that a good success. We really don't need a whole lot of releases to keep this game going. We have our major and iconic ships for both sides. We just need the occasional shake up to stop the meta from getting stale. Wave 3 accomplishes that without breaking the bank. In a game where there are significant complaints about start up cost, why is a cheap release so maligned?

We're getting way off topic now, but the end of Fantasy was simply the natural result of any game with a large buy-in.The cost of getting into the game was prohibitive due to the number of models needed. And older players already had all the models they needed. So essentially, NO ONE was buying WHFB any more. Not in the numbers they needed to to keep the line alive.And they're trying really hard not to put 40K in the same place, by encouraging allies and formations so much. I don't know how it's going to work out for them though.I think the biggest problem with 40K is that it wants to play like a beer-and-pretzels game, but the cost to play, in terms of time and money, is enormous and with those kinds of stakes, people won't tolerate the RNG, broken-ass imbalanced rules that GW puts out.

Eh, we're talking about rage-quitting, so we're not that far off topic. Warhammer in general has inspired the most epic rage-quits of our day

GW went a full year without releasing a new Army Book from February 2010 to March 2011. 8th edition was released in between that in July 2010. That means not only did they drop a radically new version of the game (as much as I ended up liking 8th edition, it was a dramatic departure), they did not support it in any meaningful way for 8 months. This was further exacerbated by the horrible imbalance of the lingering 7th edition books, such as Skaven (which was never updated in 8th edition's 5 year lifespan). If you look at their sales for the End Times, they spiked immensely. It just shows that when you don't support a game, it languishes.

To bring it home full circle, some of the complaints about FFG are apt in comparison. They will be giving us 8 months with no releases assuming they deliver wave 3 in July. I have been firmly in the "concerned" crowd about the lack of news in recent months. However, the game is well balanced at the moment, they continue to give us FAQ updates, and they're actively supporting and encouraging the tournament scene. None of that was true with 8th edition Warhammer. If they are able to deliver wave 3 by July, which looks to be a significant game changer even with its small size, and are able to deliver a wave 4 by December, I would call that a good success. We really don't need a whole lot of releases to keep this game going. We have our major and iconic ships for both sides. We just need the occasional shake up to stop the meta from getting stale. Wave 3 accomplishes that without breaking the bank. In a game where there are significant complaints about start up cost, why is a cheap release so maligned?

All of this, so hard.

I've only been playing for three months and the cost to my friends and I has been considerable, but we've finally gotten all of the expacs and can field most anything we want. The game has been out for about a year and has has gotten three waves and tournament support. It's very well balanced, the parts that aren't are updated (except for those **** XI7s) and even if communication is sparse, it's still there and support for the game is still there.

Gamers just like something to complain about, but I'm very content with what's available and what's coming. Wanting more of a good thing isn't wrong, but too many releases too fast destroying both the balance and the iconic "feel" of the game (excepting Lando who's a bit of an oddball, almost all of the characters fit thematically into Armada very well) seems more like a cash grab than "supporting the game".

Warhammer in general has inspired the most epic rage-quits of our day

Oh ya, baby. Although, in my case, it was more of a wallet quit.

Warhammer in general has inspired the most epic rage-quits of our day

Oh ya, baby. Although, in my case, it was more of a wallet quit.

I am very glad I quit WFB because it saved me money so I could buy other games, like Armada, and now I see WFB is dead in every sense.

But Armada is just getting started and we are going to quit over a preview of the next release that may not be showing the whole release? After only 9 months when the game is just getting its footing and FFG is finally catching up after the release of the Episode VII box set? Ok, that seem...reasonable?

Warhammer in general has inspired the most epic rage-quits of our day

Oh ya, baby. Although, in my case, it was more of a wallet quit.

I quit Warhammer when AoS came out for two reasons. One was the money issue, I had dumped a Lot of money into Fantasy and had three full armies, the thought of having to buy the New stuff that does not fit into my current armies did not sit well. Then they killed off the setting that I loved and gave us a really soulless setting that does not capture my imagination.

I am very glad I quit WFB because it saved me money so I could buy other games, like Armada, and now I see WFB is dead in every sense.

But Armada is just getting started and we are going to quit over a preview of the next release that may not be showing the whole release? After only 9 months when the game is just getting its footing and FFG is finally catching up after the release of the Episode VII box set? Ok, that seem...reasonable?

What is this "AoS" you speak of?

You could do what us other Gronards are doing. Just break out the old mins and rules and play those. I still think Orange book WFB was the best edition. Blue book 40K was good, but it needs army lists, so go second ed for that.

I bought Battlefleet Gothic when it first came out. If you want to talk about a company not supporting a game then that is a terrible example to compare to SW:Armada. GW didn't even talk about BFG in their own company magazine. Compared to that, FFG is releasing new Armada product at a blistering pace.

The first expansion for BFG came out six years after the game was released. Think about that one.

BFG had a much busier release schedule than Armada does. There were what, four factions on release? With the two main factions having something in the vicinity of 20 different units each (at the time of release) with the Orks and Eldar having more like ten or so each. Then there were another four or five factions added with between 10 to 15 units each.

As opposed to Armada with two factions with, what, six units each?

Over-all, it is probably a game that appeals to me more. I'd prefer Armada to be re-skinned with the BFG rules, so we could have BFG Star Wars, rather than port BFG into Armada.

It had 4 factions in release, yes, but you are overestimating how many units there were (at least initially). Eldar and orks had... I think about 5 or 6 units each on release. Eldar I think had 2 cruisers, 2 escorts, and maybe a Battleship (or another escort)? Orks I think had 3 escorts and a cruiser and a battleship (maybe another cruiser type). It expanded later on, but not by a huge amount.

Imperials had... 3 escorts, 2 battleships, and then a variety of cruisers and battle cruisers (all looking very similar because they were made from the same kit). I think there was... 4 battlecruisers and 4-6 cruisers? Chaos has the same, except they also got a "grand cruiser", and I think had another cruiser variant instead of a heavy cruiser (their equivalent to battle cruisers). And then it didn't expand a heck of a lot. They got a handful of extra ships, but mostly GW released new fleets (Space Marine fleets had a grand total of 8 ships types... and 6 of those were escorts, half of which were the same escorts the Imperial fleet could have). The upgrade mechanic in Armada means that ships can have just as much, if not more, variety between them as the different cruiser types in BFG had.

What I find amusing in the comparisons to Imperial Assault as being better supported is that in my local area almost no one plays Imperial Assault competitively (most I know, including myself, play it for the campaign), while as Armada has comparatively thriving community (nowhere near as much as X-Wing though). Armada seems the much healthier game for organised play to me.

Public rage quits are worthy of ridicule. Sorry.

If you are going to quit, just quit. Walk away. It's what I did with WoW after years of playing and investing really reprehensible amounts of time and subscription money. They did something I thought was a terrible mistake that ruined the game, I just said bye to my guildmates and friends, cancelled my sub, got a sweet figureprint of my main toon and walked away.

Reason people publicly ragequit is they want someone so sop up their tears and empathize with them. They want people to say "Oh noes, Lord Nelson, you can't possibly quit you are toooo impowtant!" It's the adult equivalent of a toddler tantrum.

If you are going to quit just STFU and quit.

I've actually been keeping an eye on the secondary market, and there has been a definite bump in the number of Armada collections being sold in proportion to x-wing stuff, but nothing major. There is no mass exodus from the game (or at least the people who plan to cease supporting it aren't selling). Time will tell but I think playership is still growing. I haven't been to a tournament yet where there wasn't at least 1 new or relatively new player...

So I've been sitting around this last year painting my Old Republic Shapeways ships, and recently I've been waiting to be sure the Venator doesn't get a model this upcoming Wave 3 so I can buy some more from Shapeways. But Wave 3 is basically nothing? And I waited a year for that?

Battlefleet Gothic Armada comes out in a matter of days, and in the few hours I've played it it has been extremely fun. While Star Wars Armada, being the 3rd best selling miniature game, gets jack?

Why should one keep playing a game that has no releases?

Is there still an expectation of the rest of wave 3 being revealed within the next week or two? I want to believe.

Now about that BFG: Armada...

Shameless plug time!

https://www.twitch.tv/lkhero

I'm really active in this community because it combines what I like most: RTS + 40K + Space naval battles!