So would a diff. set of support work better than the Decimator??

Whisper w/VI, FCS, ACD, Kallus

Omega Leader w/Juke, Comm Relay

Yorr w/Palpatine

If you really want an all- comers decimator, try Oicunn with Vader and the emperor XD

I only worry about PS in terms of my squad's firing order. I'm always glad when someone blows their EPT taking an 8 or a 9 to double digits. I prefer to play it out rather than "stating" it out.

It actually makes it all pretty simple if they go for the PS bid. Well, your it's your PS 10's shot, only he doesn't have one. My shot then. The PS bid was critical back when PWT ruled the roost, seems like that paranoia dies hard. With the brick of RAC and the elusiveness of a Phantom, seems like you could have something to say about when your ships get to shoot regardless of PS.

I don't understand, for my PS is 95% about movement and actions. Beign able to decide my actions after my oponet is huge. And has nothing to do with turrets.

I'm going to just kick it old school. The 84 point list (just echo and whisper.) Fit them with the new newness (,kallus etc) maybe have points left for wampa (to act as biggs)

And from there...let the dance macabre play itself out.

I hope it kills the Phantom, as I just hate that ship.

I'm hoping it too, because then FFG will have to buff it again.... And now that we are at it, I hope it also coup de grace' interceptors and other low health imperial ships... because of the aforementioned consequence.

I only worry about PS in terms of my squad's firing order. I'm always glad when someone blows their EPT taking an 8 or a 9 to double digits. I prefer to play it out rather than "stating" it out.

It actually makes it all pretty simple if they go for the PS bid. Well, your it's your PS 10's shot, only he doesn't have one. My shot then. The PS bid was critical back when PWT ruled the roost, seems like that paranoia dies hard. With the brick of RAC and the elusiveness of a Phantom, seems like you could have something to say about when your ships get to shoot regardless of PS.

I don't understand, for my PS is 95% about movement and actions. Beign able to decide my actions after my oponet is huge. And has nothing to do with turrets.

It comes down to play style then. At a certain point you can make assumptions about the outcome of a round even if your opponent goes after you and has re-positioning options. Often they can mitigate what comes next, but just as often can't escape it either. I concede that it is safer to PS bid, I'm also saying that it is not obligatory.

RAC 59

Ruthlessness

Gunner

Moff Jerjerrod

Bombardier

Ion Bomb

Whisper 41

PTL

Stygium Particle Accelerator

FCS

Saboteur

The idea here is to maximize RAC's shooting and since you are two ships, splash some damage. Whisper uses an unorthodox build to flank using multiple actions to achieve position, and burns the normal action on flipping damage cards. Of course, this is just an idea. I'll have to try it out. TLTs could be a pretty rough go without ACD.

So would a diff. set of support work better than the Decimator??

Whisper w/VI, FCS, ACD, Kallus

Omega Leader w/Juke, Comm Relay

Yorr w/Palpatine

This is nearly the same list I've been playing for all of 2016:

Echo with Lone Wolf, SJ, Kallus, ACD

Omega Leader with Juke, Comm Relay

Yorr with Palpatine

I haven't yet played a list that it can't handle. With that being said, I haven't gotten a chance to test it against triple torpedo scouts yet. I know it's not unwinnable - in fact I think it stands a good chance against the scouts.

Omega Leader needs to be in a 1v1 situation, so fly accordingly. Echo can be used as bait as far as I'm concerned. She has plenty of dice mods to survive 2 torp shots in the alpha strike. If torps are used on Yorr, I'm OK with that. He'll at least get 2 shots off to help out.

Any thoughts?

I hope it kills the Phantom, as I just hate that ship.

I'm hoping it too, because then FFG will have to buff it again.... And now that we are at it, I hope it also coup de grace' interceptors and other low health imperial ships... because of the aforementioned consequence.

The ordnance strikes will chew up the poor Decimator, but if they do the Phantom can probably survive the two die attacks.

The ordnance strikes will chew up the poor Decimator, but if they do the Phantom can probably survive the two die attacks.

But it won't survive the Bumpmaster with Feedback Array + APL. You have to dodge a zone of 7.5x7.5 bases.

I hope it kills the Phantom, as I just hate that ship.

I'm hoping it too, because then FFG will have to buff it again.... And now that we are at it, I hope it also coup de grace' interceptors and other low health imperial ships... because of the aforementioned consequence.

It needs nothing. Let's just hope it stays in it's case and never comes out.

I think whisper and super RAC will have a great time in this new meta. Have you seen super RAC move? It can lure and pull the Scouts around the board all day.

If U-boats really do become popular, we might even see Phantoms without Veteran Instincts. TLT Ys were nice, but never really caught on. I'm honestly really hoping these guys do. If the strongest list is PS3 all round, why pay for PS9-11? Leave Vader home and take Alozen! No need to bring Fel when Phennir can take his shot and barrel out of range 1 afterwards!

If U-boats really do become popular, we might even see Phantoms without Veteran Instincts. TLT Ys were nice, but never really caught on. I'm honestly really hoping these guys do. If the strongest list is PS3 all round, why pay for PS9-11? Leave Vader home and take Alozen! No need to bring Fel when Phennir can take his shot and barrel out of range 1 afterwards!

Then what do you do when the Scum player brings two u boats and PS10 Boba, or Talonbane, or Zuckuss, or Xizor?

Non-VI Vaders and Poes I can see coming more to the fore; I can see the u boats pulling down the extremes of PS from 11 to 10 or 9 (especially with the advent of Adaptability enabling easier flight management if you don't need the increased PS with lists where you have 8s and a 9 with Adaptability), but I struggle to see Whisper and Echo not wanting all the PS they can get, even though Predator, Juke, or something like that might do them much better.

Two U-boats and Boba is more or less impossible, and my point is that Boba is PS10 precisely to counter the likes of Fel. If U-boats become a greater threat to him than Fel, he will ditch Veteran Instincts for another EPT. I think the problem with today's meta is that the high PS ace lists have become disproportionally powerful compared to low/mid/mixed PS lists, and triple Scouts might help rectify this.

On the other hand, if half the players use PS3 Scouts and the other half PS10 aces, VI to 9 becomes pointless, and Whisper might as well take Lone Wolf or something. A Phantom is unpredictable and fast enough to shake Fel, but at PS6-7 I think Miranda poses a bigger problem. On the other hand, I'm guessing she's going to really hate triple Scouts, so maybe she'll drop in popularity? Anyway, interesting times!

VI will always be pretty much required for Whisper. Triple Scouts or the new ordinance fan fare in general will ebb and flow just like any meta shift but I doubt the Ace ships are going anywhere completely. ACD is too important to Whisper to ever take a risk on staying at PS 7.

If U-boats really do become popular, we might even see Phantoms without Veteran Instincts. TLT Ys were nice, but never really caught on. I'm honestly really hoping these guys do. If the strongest list is PS3 all round, why pay for PS9-11? Leave Vader home and take Alozen! No need to bring Fel when Phennir can take his shot and barrel out of range 1 afterwards!

Then what do you do when the Scum player brings two u boats and PS10 Boba, or Talonbane, or Zuckuss, or Xizor?

Non-VI Vaders and Poes I can see coming more to the fore; I can see the u boats pulling down the extremes of PS from 11 to 10 or 9 (especially with the advent of Adaptability enabling easier flight management if you don't need the increased PS with lists where you have 8s and a 9 with Adaptability), but I struggle to see Whisper and Echo not wanting all the PS they can get, even though Predator, Juke, or something like that might do them much better.

I mean, that's definitely the prevailing wisdom. But running Whisper with Kallus in Palp Aces in the current meta has taught me something interesting about being beaten on PS: the most dangerous thing is being outmaneuvered by Vader or Poe, not being shot by them.

If Whisper evades, that's a guaranteed evade result from the token and another from Palpatine. And you'll get a minimum of one more evade from the dice unless you literally blank both of them, which is just a 14% chance. So 86% of the time, Whisper can put up 3 evade results against whatever her attacker is doing.

So if the metagame shifted toward a smoother curve centered on lower PS (rather than the current PS game where the bottom third is PS1-2 and the top third is PS9+) I can see a window for something like Echo + Lone Wolf + Kallus + ACD plus the system of your choice, especially supported by Palpatine. It's a little cheaper than the usual Whisper build, and against enemy ships on PS1-5 it's just as dangerous. Against PS7+, it's fighting without its cloak, but it can cheat the dice fairly effectively, and Echo's final position is an order of magnitude more flexible (and less predictable) than Whisper's.

I can understand it being tough for people to drop VI on Whisper because the PS 8 and 9 aces will always be around. But Vorpal has nailed it here. The combination of Agent Kallus and Palpatine has provided the named phantoms with some much desired flexibility in how they can be built, as they no longer need to fire first. I've been arguing for quite a while that VI has been useless on Echo, but also that Echo is still one of the best pilots in the game, because she is all about maneuvering and planning.

Apart from the LW Echo build that I mentioned on page 2, I also really like:

Whisper with Juke, SJ, Kallus, ACD

OR

Echo with Outmaneuver, SJ, Kallus, ACD

On the other hand, if half the players use PS3 Scouts and the other half PS10 aces, VI to 9 becomes pointless, and Whisper might as well take Lone Wolf or something. A Phantom is unpredictable and fast enough to shake Fel, but at PS6-7 I think Miranda poses a bigger problem. On the other hand, I'm guessing she's going to really hate triple Scouts, so maybe she'll drop in popularity? Anyway, interesting times!

One thought:

A TIE Phantom with an advanced cloak can - or at least should - win the maneuver game. Even against a higher PS pilot, a 'free' decloak move every turn is just awesome, and was reason to seriously consider the advanced cloak even on the generic pilots.

But whilst you don't need the PS advantage in the manoeuvre phase, it's much more life-or-death in the combat phase. A couple of points of PS make the difference between whisper having agility 2 and no tokens, or agility 4 and a focus token.

You can try and avoid arcs of fire but the sad reality is that however good you think you are, you will end up in a head-to-head pass at some point. If nothing else, consider turreted weapons.

Therefore - Decoy. You can get a PS11 Vader and a ~20 point escort, or a PS10 Boba Fett or Rear Admiral Chiraneau.

Decoy's range 1-2 is a lot more forgiving - especially for Vader, who shouldn't have any trouble hanging onto a phantom's coat-tails (not when he only needs to be within range 2, anyway), and you can in theory have a not entirely useless PS10 Howlrunner or PS9 Scourge/Mauler Mithel as your third ship.