"When attacking with a (Torpedoes) secondary weapon, a ship with this icon may attack an enemy ship that is at Range 1-3 and inside it's standard or special firing arc.

I know everyone will be quick to jump to " As written on the card," But...

The question is .. Are all torpedoes equipped on the ghost resolved at range 1-3 ?

If you say as per the card then why did they say 1-3 at all ?

And ... Then that brings other effects into question like

"All ships at range 1-2 may acquire a target lock."

Because by your own reasoning as per on the card wouldn't Target lock have to be on the ships card to "may acquire it?"

Seems to me that the word "May" means outside the normal rule... That being so, would all torpedoes have a 1-3 range on the Ghost?

Some torpedoes have range 1 requirements (advanced proton torpedoes). The wording about special firing arc is to clarify torps can fired from rear arc at range 1-3, but u still have to meet the range on the torp card.

Some torpedoes have range 1 requirements (advanced proton torpedoes). The wording about special firing arc is to clarify torps can fired from rear arc at range 1-3, but u still have to meet the range on the torp card.

So are You saying that it has to be on the card or not ? So "May" only applies to as written or ? Please have examples, And why do you think it say's 1-3 then.

Using the Targeting computer has to be on the card (Just another example) if it says may target lock . I am questioning as to why did they put 1-3 on the explanation

"When attacking with a (Torpedoes) secondary weapon, a ship with this icon may attack an enemy ship that is at Range 1-3 and inside it's standard or special firing arc.

It just states that you can attack ships at range 1-3. It could say for some reason 1-2 then any ship at range 3 would be illegal target regardles of the weapon.

It works like that:

-special arc rule allows you to target ships behind you (range 1-3 is allowed)

-choose a weapon > proton torpedos

-check if target is legal for that weapon

Its the same for normal arcs, but they range 1-3 is covered in main rules already...so they just needed to cover this one too.

Some torpedoes have range 1 requirements (advanced proton torpedoes). The wording about special firing arc is to clarify torps can fired from rear arc at range 1-3, but u still have to meet the range on the torp card.

So are You saying that it has to be on the card or not ? So "May" only applies to as written or ? Please have examples, And why do you think it say's 1-3 then.

Using the Targeting computer has to be on the card (Just another example) if it says may target lock . I am questioning as to why did they put 1-3 on the explanation

Don't over think it.

I don't understand why they'd call out a range for firing torpedoes in the bit about the special arc. The torpedo range is already printed on the card. The Auxiliary and Firing Arc entries in the RRG have similar language for Primary Weapon attacks, but those require that something to set the range.

Also, why even mention the that a ship with that icon can fire Torpedoes at range 1-3 out of the Primary Arc if it does nothing?

I'm not sure that a VCX-100 can ignore the printed range on Torpedo cards but that seems like some very odd extra wording to include if it can't.

I just submitted the following rules question to FFG support:

The rules insert for the VCX-100 includes rules for the new "Special Arc" icon:

"When attacking with a (Torpedoes) secondary weapon, a ship with this icon may attack an enemy ship that is at Range 1-3 and inside it's standard or special firing arc."

Does this override the range printed on Torpedo upgrade cards allowing the VCX-100 to fire all Torpedoes at ranges 1-3?

You still need to adhere to the limitations on the torpedo.

Look at the text. It says at Range 1-3 and in either primary or special arc.

Would you then argue you could fire at Range 1-3 in primary arc if the Torpedo is Range 2-3?

Its the same for normal arcs, but they range 1-3 is covered in main rules already...so they just needed to cover this one too.

I'm not finding that in the RRG. The only references I see to range 1-3 in regards to arcs is with the Primary Weapon. The Attack Section says that Secondary Weapons can only be used in the Primary Arc and that they use the ranges printed on them.

You still need to adhere to the limitations on the torpedo.

Look at the text. It says at Range 1-3 and in either primary or special arc.

Would you then argue you could fire at Range 1-3 in primary arc if the Torpedo is Range 2-3?

Yes, but only if the ship has the Special Arc icon. It appears that the rules for the Special Arc might replace the more general rules listed under the Attack section. The printed range on the Torpedo only matter because the Attack rules instruct you to use them.

I'm on the fence about it and would like to see how FFG answers my question.

Imagine for the moment that the VCX is intended to be able to fire Advanced Proton Torpedoes all the way out to Range 3 from either the front or back.

Got it?

It seems quite likely that they would have mentioned that in a preview article. And that the article would have been titled "Make Your Advanced Proton Torpedoes Worth Something With This One Weird Trick!" or something.

"Inquisitors Hate Her! This Torpedo Trick, Discovered By A Space Mom, Will Restore Your Faith in Ordnance!"

"We Put the Least-viable Ordnance (and That's Saying Something) on This Old Freighter. You Won't Believe What Happened Next!"

Imagine for the moment that the VCX is intended to be able to fire Advanced Proton Torpedoes all the way out to Range 3 from either the front or back.

Made all the more hilarious that the darned thing has a Crew and System slot

It seems quite likely that they would have mentioned that in a preview article. And that the article would have been titled "Make Your Advanced Proton Torpedoes Worth Something With This One Weird Trick!" or something.

They would have also gotten some important detail wrong and would pull the article within the week and replace it with another one with the same title that doesn't even mention Advanced Proton Torpedoes once.

The rules on secondary weapons in the RR is the following:

"To use a secondary weapon, the attacker must meet all requirements indicated in the card’s text, and the desired target must be inside the attacker’s firing arc and at the weapon range specified on the card."

It seems to me, that the special arc rule overrides the "must be at the weapon range specified on the card" part.

I'm feeling lazy and my phone makes multi-quotes a chore, so I'm going to quote my response to a similar topic in the General forum:

While I agree that you have to follow the range restrictions on the Torpedo cards (cards override rules, generally), I find them mentioning the "range 1-3" thing in there is awkward, confusing, and unnecessary.

So why would they go out of their way to say you can fire them at range 1 to 3 if you in fact could not shoot them range 1 to 3.It would be necessary to say that the ranges as you can make all torpedo attacks in range 1 to 3. Protons at range one and APT at ranges 2 and 3.

If it hadn't been included, someone could use precisely the same logic you're using now to argue that you could make torpedo attacks with the VCX's special arc at any range.

The language for the special firing arc is a mirror of the language used for the auxiliary firing arc. Check the Rules Reference:

When attacking with its primary weapon, a ship with this icon may attack an enemy ship that is at Range 1–3 and inside its standard or auxiliary firing arc.

Compare that to the language describing the special arc (emphasis in the original):

When attacking with a [torpedo] secondary weapon, a ship with this icon may attack an enemy ship that is at Range 1–3 and inside its standard or special firing arc.

They're using parallel structure to emphasize the point that you can make attacks with torpedoes against a ship in your special firing arc. They are not providing a rule which overrides the range limitation provided on every secondary weapon card. In fact, the rules can't do so, due to one of the Golden Rules of X-wing:

Card abilities can override the rules listed in this guide

So not only does the text in the Ghost rulesheet not mean what you think it means, but even if it did, it would still be overruled by the range limitation of the secondary weapon itself.

Card abilities can override the rules listed in this guide

So not only does the text in the Ghost rulesheet not mean what you think it means, but even if it did, it would still be overruled by the range limitation of the secondary weapon itself.

I am not sure that the range on the weapon card is actually a "card ability".

Rules reference says:

"Card abilities are resolved as instructed by the text on the card ...".

and

" the desired target must be inside the attacker’s firing arc and at the weapon range specified on the card".

One can argue that the special arc rule overrides the "must be inside the weapon range" condition, and you can ignore the range limit on the card.

I'm thinking the regular range for whatever torpedo is going to be the RAI, but the wording is definitely confusing the issue.

I'm on the fence about it and would like to see how FFG answers my question.

Keep us posted.

I'm feeling lazy and my phone makes multi-quotes a chore, so I'm going to quote my response to a similar topic in the General forum:

While I agree that you have to follow the range restrictions on the Torpedo cards (cards override rules, generally), I find them mentioning the "range 1-3" thing in there is awkward, confusing, and unnecessary.

So why would they go out of their way to say you can fire them at range 1 to 3 if you in fact could not shoot them range 1 to 3.It would be necessary to say that the ranges as you can make all torpedo attacks in range 1 to 3. Protons at range one and APT at ranges 2 and 3.

If it hadn't been included, someone could use precisely the same logic you're using now to argue that you could make torpedo attacks with the VCX's special arc at any range.

The language for the special firing arc is a mirror of the language used for the auxiliary firing arc. Check the Rules Reference:

When attacking with its primary weapon, a ship with this icon may attack an enemy ship that is at Range 1–3 and inside its standard or auxiliary firing arc.

Compare that to the language describing the special arc (emphasis in the original):

When attacking with a [torpedo] secondary weapon, a ship with this icon may attack an enemy ship that is at Range 1–3 and inside its standard or special firing arc.

They're using parallel structure to emphasize the point that you can make attacks with torpedoes against a ship in your special firing arc. They are not providing a rule which overrides the range limitation provided on every secondary weapon card. In fact, the rules can't do so, due to one of the Golden Rules of X-wing:

Card abilities can override the rules listed in this guide

So not only does the text in the Ghost rulesheet not mean what you think it means, but even if it did, it would still be overruled by the range limitation of the secondary weapon itself.

The parallel language between the Special Arc rules and the Auxiliary Arcs rules seems like the result of cut, paste, and edit documentation. It doesn't really serve any purpose there to close any sort of range loophole. The Attack section of the rules seems to cover it:

"If attacking with a secondary weapon, the target must be inside the attacker’s firing arc (unless otherwise specified) and at the weapon range indicated on the weapon’s Upgrade card."

It doesn't get ambiguous at all until the language from the Special Arc rules block gets added in. Why even mention the Primary Arc at all in that block? Why put a cap on the maximum range in the Special and Primary arcs for Torpedoes for ships that have a Special Arc that doesn't exist for ships that lack the arc (if a Torpedo with Range 4-5 was released, the VCX-100 would be the only ship with Torpedo slots unable to fire it)?

My gut tells me that whoever wrote the Special Arc rules just copied the rules for the Auxiliary Arc and made changes as appropriate and that the range 1-3 stuff is just an artifact. However, I do think that there's as strong a case to be made that the VCX-100 does something special with Torpedoes as there is that the Special Arc just lets you fire them fire Torpedoes out the rear of the ship. I'm hoping that FFG responds to my rules question.

I'm just going to assume ffg isn't going to **** on rhymer more than the fact that tomax costs 2 points less for a better ability and higher ps by also making a ship that by default has his pilot ability for free on all pilots.

I'm just going to assume ffg isn't going to **** on rhymer more than the fact that tomax costs 2 points less for a better ability and higher ps by also making a ship that by default has his pilot ability for free on all pilots.

Actually, it is FFG's propensity for shitting on Rhymer that makes me think that the Special Arc probably does confer a better version of his ability.