Rage Issue

By Atredes, in X-Wing

In an argument, this came up, and I would want clarification.

Someone used Rage. He wants to reroll 1 die, then another die, then another. He is not rerolling them together, he is rerolling one at a time.

Please tell me this is wrong and I am not crazy.

I'm pretty sure you can't reroll a reroll, but that could be my 40k talking.

Unless you mean that he just wasn't picking up all three dice and rolling them together, rather rolling them one at a time, which is more annoying then anything. Doesn't really affect anything by doing it one at a time, unless there is some kind of advantage you can see to that. It's not like a D6 where if you Palm it right and toss it just the right way you can guarantee a certain number.

I guess he could be trying to use it to his advantage, see if he gets a hit or something and then trying a different dice for a crit, but why would he do that if he already has a hit?

You have to modify all your attack dice together or not at all. Sounds like your friend is trying to manipulate the wording on rage as I don't think it specifies that it applies to the current round only.

He is arguing Rage lets him pick and choose one dice at a time.

I have no clue why he wants to do it 1 at a time. He has not played more than two games but is a serious rule lawyer.

Also a issue came up if those 3 rerolls are for each attack, like via gunner or he has ONLY 3 rerolls for whole round.

Just say yes? Why do you care? It's not like it makes a shred of difference in the end.

I have no clue why he wants to do it 1 at a time. He has not played more than two games but is a serious rule lawyer.

My guess? He wants to know if he actually wants to spend that focus token. This is not a legal way to do it though.

The card says "may re-roll up to three attack dice"

Can't say whether it's a "once per opportunity" case, but doubtly so.

No reason to whack him for that.

other than slow play if it was a tournament I would call him out to the TO or what are they called now marshals?

Rage:

Action: Assign 1 focus token to your ship and receive 2 stress tokens. Until the end of the round, when attacking, you may reroll up to 3 attack dice.

Rules Reference ( Force Awakens pg. 8 ):

Card abilities are resolved as instructed by the text on the card with the additional restrictions described below:
A card ability cannot be resolved more than once during the timing specified on the card. For example, a card with the timing of "when defending" cannot be resolved twice by the defender during a single attack.
So he would have to trigger all he's re-rolls at once.
Edited because I should learn to double check my answers before shooting my mouth off.
Edited by Vordyn

Tell Mr rules lawyer he's wrong.

I would also like to add that I think this is a friend problem.

That's why I have frenemies instead.

You definitely don't have to reroll all your dice at once, even from the same ability, assuming he is not spending a target lock to do so. The once per opportunity rule doesn't apply here, because the opportunity is the "Attacker modifies attack dice" step, which is a broad timing window that allows the attacker to reroll or modify any number of dice in any order, should he choose. The only limitation is that he does not reroll the same die more than once, so watch close and make sure he doesn't. The case would be different he was spending a target lock to reroll dice, But, since he is not and has rerolls available from another ability, he can, for example, reroll a single die, spend a focus token, and then reroll another die. Doesn't make a lot of sense, I know, but it is a legal way to modify your dice. This applies to your initial roll, too. I know a player that doesn't like to roll more than two dice at a time, so if he is rolling 3, 4, 5+ dice, he'll roll 2, pick up and roll the next 2, and so on.

Not illegal. Maybe annoying, but completely allowed.

Edited by Engine25

True, there's nothing in the rules as far as I'm aware which states you have to roll all dice simultaneously ( apart from good gaming etiquette ), but just to clarify if he rolled three dice, 1.) Hit, 2.) Blank, 3.) Focus, uses rage to re-roll dice 2 to a focus, spends a focus token he then would not be able to use rage to try and a re-roll dice 1 or 3 into a crit.

Edited by Vordyn

True, there's nothing in the rules as far as I'm aware which states you have to roll all dice simultaneously ( apart from good gaming etiquette ), but just to clarify if he rolled three dice, 1.) Hit, 2.) Blank, 3.) Focus, uses rage to re-roll dice 2 to a focus, spends a focus token he then would not be able to use rage to try and a re-roll dice 1 or 3 into a crit.

Why would he not be able be able to reroll his hits? He only used 1/3 of his reroll.

I've used predator on Bossk to reroll one of 3 hits to try to get a crit. And to reroll my only hit into a blank to trigger gunner.

As for the OP question: if he rerolls different dice everytime its ok, just a dice rolling habit none can forbit it. If he tries to reroll one die 3 times then its a no go, rules state you cannot reroll die more then once. But this made me think about another situation:

Rage + Gunner or Tie/D or whatever that makes you do second attack.

Rage:

Action: Assign 1 focus token to your ship and receive 2 stress tokens. Until the end of the round, when attacking, you may reroll up to 3 attack dice.

Does that mean that:

a) i have to reroll all of those 3 dice during 1 attack (not likely IMO)

b)have to split my 3 rerolls between both attacks?

c)have 3 rerolls during each attack?

Edited by Vitalis

3 per attack. Same wording as Predator.

True, there's nothing in the rules as far as I'm aware which states you have to roll all dice simultaneously ( apart from good gaming etiquette ), but just to clarify if he rolled three dice, 1.) Hit, 2.) Blank, 3.) Focus, uses rage to re-roll dice 2 to a focus, spends a focus token he then would not be able to use rage to try and a re-roll dice 1 or 3 into a crit.

Why would he not be able be able to reroll his hits? He only used 1/3 of his reroll.

I've used predator on Bossk to reroll one of 3 hits to try to get a crit. And to reroll my only hit into a blank to trigger gunner.

Because in the example above he's used his re-roll trigger with rage to re-roll one dice, then spent a focus, he can no longer use rages ability to re-roll any remaining dice.

Edited by Vordyn

As for the OP question: if he rerolls different dice everytime its ok, just a dice rolling habit none can forbit it. If he tries to reroll one die 3 times then its a no go, rules state you cannot reroll die more then once. But this made me think about another situation:

Rage + Gunner or Tie/D or whatever that makes you do second attack.

Rage:

Action: Assign 1 focus token to your ship and receive 2 stress tokens. Until the end of the round, when attacking, you may reroll up to 3 attack dice.

Does that mean that:

a) i have to reroll all of those 3 dice during 1 attack (not likely IMO)

b)have to split my 3 rerolls between both attacks?

c)have 3 rerolls during each attack?

Gunner FAQ :

Using Gunner’s ability is a separate attack, which means that the ship can choose to declare a different target for the second attack, and any abilities to modify attack dice (such as spending a focus token or a target lock) must be used for each attack separately.
When Gunner is used to perform a primary weapon attack, any additional attacks (such as from Cluster Missiles) are forfeited. (X-Wing FAQ, Version 3.1.1, Updated 07/24/2015)
So you would have upto 3 re-roll per attack.

What I'm wondering is how the decision process works. If I decide to use the Rage rerolls, don't I have to decide how many dice I wish to reroll? If I roll hit, focus, blank and decide to reroll, if I start by rerolling the blank only, then I can decide what to do with the other die depending on the result of the blank reroll. That sounds kinda odd to me which made me wonder. Then I can reroll the blank, if I get a focus I stop rerolling and spend my focus, if I get a blank I reroll the focus to save my token.

Wouldn't "Once per opportunity" dictate that if I decide to reroll a die with Rage I cannot decide to reroll another one after that since I've already used it and would have to use something else like a TL or Pred to reroll the next die. Meaning that when you elect to reroll with a certain ability you decide how many dice are to be rerolled and then you cannot use that ability again that opportunity.

What I'm wondering is how the decision process works. If I decide to use the Rage rerolls, don't I have to decide how many dice I wish to reroll? If I roll hit, focus, blank and decide to reroll, if I start by rerolling the blank only, then I can decide what to do with the other die depending on the result of the blank reroll. That sounds kinda odd to me which made me wonder. Then I can reroll the blank, if I get a focus I stop rerolling and spend my focus, if I get a blank I reroll the focus to save my token.

Wouldn't "Once per opportunity" dictate that if I decide to reroll a die with Rage I cannot decide to reroll another one after that since I've already used it and would have to use something else like a TL or Pred to reroll the next die. Meaning that when you elect to reroll with a certain ability you decide how many dice are to be rerolled and then you cannot use that ability again that opportunity.

There's nothing to say you have to declare how many dice you decide to re-roll, but once you do anything other than a re-roll rages abilitity has resolved for that attack can not be used again that attack.

It's all in that wonderful section of the rules that offer no direct explanation. No where, to my knowledge, does it say you must declare how many dice you're re-rolling with a particular ability in advance of beginning the re-rolls, nor does it say anywhere you cannot just roll one die at a time before moving on to the next. There's a lot of rules that kind of touch on it that may apply, like the Once Per Opportunity, but none of it is specific to re-rolls.

I think this is one of those things that probably could use a FAQ/Errata update as this isn't the first time this question has come up recently.

As it stands now, I'd be fine with someone rolling one die at a time, other than with seeing how annoyingly slow it could be. Roll, observe result, repeat.

Edited by Slugrage

You declare the number of dice to re-roll, BEFORE you actually re-roll ANY dice. If he pulls the dice out to be re-rolled, then rolls them one at a time, that's fine, but if he is rolling one, doesn't like the result, so picks up another one, and so on, he is violating the rules. Also, once a die has be re-rolled, the second result stands, and the die can't be re-rolled a second time (target lock, ect...). The die CAN be modified, for instance, changing a focus result with a focus token, but you may only re-roll a die once.