I've not seen it played, but on paper, it looks like the Scouts should mop the floor with PS2 TLTs.

I don't think 3 jumpmasters will be that great agaisnt Y-wings. If it were we would have seen 3 ORS against them already. Since we havn't seen masses of ORS running up and down the play mats I doubt that the jumpmaster would be any more successful. It is a good and well designed ship but I don't think 3 of them is the TLT-wing killer that players are looking for.

Masses of ORS don't have the devastating torpedo alpha strike that U-Boats have, so this is totally apples to oranges

So did guidance chips work or is there an actual build that makes something other than flechett torpedos useful? I still don't see how alpha-strikes would affect anything other than a point fortress build back in the days of Fat han and that was dead last year. So we got 3 2 firepower PWTs vs 4 TLTs. Y-wings have torpedoes too.

Guidance Chips helped but the deadeye R4 gc combo has a 75% of hitting four times. With protons that moves up to 90%. They have six of these shots with EM and gave no need to actually lock their target, which was the problem of lower PS ships. Now, in this case it means that there are very likely two dead Ys before they could mathematically kill one jumper. Then, it's two on two with the jumpers having a superior dial and positioning to get in the hole.

A TLT list that "might" proove difficult for 3 scouts is a low pilot skill K-wing that moves first eqipped with advanced slam, extra munitions, Sabine crew, and three Conner Net upgrade cards.

That lets you slam into the formation of scouts starting from outside range 3 and drop Conner Net right in front of one of them. The scout moves through your Conner Net, takes damage (plus extra damage from Sabine), loses its action (no focus or target lock to fire a torp), and tqkes two ion tokens so it can only move one forward next round.

That's a 48 point K-Wing.

I can't imagine a game where you'd be able to drop 6 Conner Nets.

Good point. The K-wing will be a high-priority target after it drops the first Conner Net, so one Conner Net with extra munitions and Sabine should be enough for the life expectancy of that K-wing ... and you can use the points from the other two Conner Nets to use with the other heavy hitters in your list.

That **** EPT slot on Contracted Scout is the only problem with the list. Low PS ships that have to TL have a huge disadvantage with ordnance. "Oh, you are target locking Miranda?" Ok, lemme slam outta range, no shot for you!

Instead it's "Well, Miranda slammed outta range, I guess I will fire my Protons at Poe, rather than have to use my 2 attack turret at range 3."

Im just hoping FFG play tested the **** outta this list and discovered its not as scary as first thought. Maybe a list/ship nobody plays today will suddenly become relevant.

pretty sure the ept is there precisely because of the low PS TL problem with ordnance

similar to why LRS was invented imo

(also lets you slap intimidation onto your bumpmaster )

I foresee Carnor and Wes suddenly becoming really popular.

Triple torpedo boat certainly looks good on paper but I will trying flying against it a few times before I declare the sky is falling in. Funny that a month ago quad TLT was the list everyone way trying to figure out the best way to beat.

I foresee Carnor and Wes suddenly becoming really popular.Triple torpedo boat certainly looks good on paper but I will trying flying against it a few times before I declare the sky is falling in. Funny that a month ago quad TLT was the list everyone way trying to figure out the best way to beat.

It's always good to answer one OP list with another.

Well, if we're looking to counter the U-Boats while keeping a list strong enough to at least give issues to Palp-Aces, Regen, etc...

5x Tala+Cluster Missile+Chimps

1x Tala+SX-23+Chimps.

99 points so your matched initiative. Your at PS4 so he moves first and shoots last.

You have the option T/L on whichever Scout is in arc or T/L 2-3 on 1 and Focus the rest so Threads can give you locks on another.

Even with lousy rolls you should be able to tank 1 scout before they ever get to shoot. More likely kill one and strip shields on the second. You will lose 1 Z95 in the return volley (unless he messed up his move and let you get into the R1 donut hole)....maybe 2 if he can score 4 hits and you blank your evades on each shot.

The next round your guns or remaining Missiles should be able to kill the wounded before his Torp shoots. Plan to lose another z from the last Scouts Torp...but now your 4-5 2 shot ships against his single 2 shot turret..

At least until the dice gods decide to have a laugh at your expense.

Guardian Squadron Pilot (25)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Conner Net (4)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Guardian Squadron Pilot (25)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Guardian Squadron Pilot (25)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Wait till imperial veterans comes out and you wont need TLT

Guardian Squadron Pilot (25)Extra Munitions (2)Homing Missiles (5)Conner Net (4)Long-Range Scanners (0)Guardian Squadron Pilot (25)Extra Munitions (2)Homing Missiles (5)Long-Range Scanners (0)Guardian Squadron Pilot (25)Extra Munitions (2)Homing Missiles (5)Long-Range Scanners (0)Total: 100View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Wait till imperial veterans comes out and you wont need TLT

LRS is a better version of chips.

Conner net can be dropped to convert a Guardian to Miranda for 5 dice HM's.

Conner net can be dropped for 2 Autoblaster Turrets for insurances against Acewing.

Conner net can be dropped for Esege and an Intel Agent, for SLAM blocking higher PS.

Or a Prox Mine and Intel Agent, for 'omniscient' SLAM blocking and a little anti-Soontir.

Lots of options for those remaining 4 points. Since you'll have PS above triple U-Boat you don't /super/ need LRS and can just use Chips for now.

Triple U-boat can certainly be countered, we just need it to take over the meta to the point where it becomes safe to counter it and not just run into a bunch of holdout Palp Ace players.

Contracted Scout: Guidance Chips, R4, Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions x3 is the build I believe. You move forward, take a focus, spend the focus (thanks to Deadeye) to fire the torpedo, gaining a TL from the R4. It gets 4 hits 71% of the time, if I remember right.

Of course, dice, maneuvering, etc come into play, but if they joust the Ys are hooped for sure.

The problem with all these fixes is that they seem to be designed for last years meta. The Alpha strike that the tracer missiles provide would have been great against the point fortress 2 ship meta. But as the meta shifts with FAQ and fixes those munitions fixes becoem out dated the day they are released.

Nothing I posted was outdated by the FAQ. Unless there was yet another FAQ, that jump master list is the king of ordnance and all around scary list.

...there aren't even tracer missiles in the list I posted...

FFG Game Dev: "Well sure, some one could run this combo... but they would have to stump up a pretty penny."

FFG Manager: "I'm sorry I don't see the problem."

I feel sorry for the Dev's, 3 and a half years of munitions are rubbish and not worth taking and now "Ohh noes! A good munitiions boat nerf boat!"

It's like they had the same conversation with the K-Wings a wave back.

Wave 7:

"Naah, I think the EPT would make them too powerful. Let's wait and see."

Wave 8:

"Told ya."

"OK damnit you're right let's just give them the EPT."

In fact, how on earth is 25 points the right cost for the scout when Red Vets are a point more, and Gand Findsmen are the same?

2 die primary. When loaded with its Proton Death Payload it's 34, the same ballpark as Aces.

It's like they had the same conversation with the K-Wings a wave back.

Wave 7:

"Naah, I think the EPT would make them too powerful. Let's wait and see."

Wave 8:

"Told ya."

"OK damnit you're right let's just give them the EPT."

K-wings and TIE/ITs have no EPT for a much simpler reason.

Contracted Scout: Guidance Chips, R4, Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions x3 is the build I believe. You move forward, take a focus, spend the focus (thanks to Deadeye) to fire the torpedo, gaining a TL from the R4. It gets 4 hits 71% of the time, if I remember right.

Of course, dice, maneuvering, etc come into play, but if they joust the Ys are hooped for sure.

The problem with all these fixes is that they seem to be designed for last years meta. The Alpha strike that the tracer missiles provide would have been great against the point fortress 2 ship meta. But as the meta shifts with FAQ and fixes those munitions fixes becoem out dated the day they are released.

I disagree on a couple of points here. Let's start with fixes becoming outdated as soon as they are released. Extra Munitions is excellent and really makes ordnance affordable on ships that can take EM. That isn't going to change and will forever be a good thing. It makes Homing Missiles much cheaper on the ships that can take them, which fixes the whole "action economy" issue. Homing Missiles with EM have been good since last year when it came out. Someone won a SC with a K-wing with Homing Missile. Proton Torpedoes can adjust one die, which is good, but not great. Next, Guidance Chip is going to be a good thing from now on, especially when combined with EM. It pretty much means you will be converting something that would be a miss into a hit or a crit. Combine the free eyeball to crit with one other blank or eyeball into a hit makes Ordnance much more reliable without needing a 2nd action. The only problem I see is that you won't get to use it on X-wings because you will want to take Integrated Astromech. Guidance Chip really is a good thing and it's not useless on release. It will make ordnance a viable option from now and for a long time.

Next, you say that Alpha Strike works against the points fortress, but not against current meta? Yes, it did work against the Points Fortress, but it also works against other things. Shield Regen for starters. Rebel Shield Regen lists are the current rage, but ordnance Alpha Strikes can blast a Poe or Corran Horn pretty fast. I've managed to kill a Poe as he landed on 2-3 Seismic Charges and was then hit by 2 Homing Missiles all in the same turn. He went from full health to dead in one go. TLT's are also "slowly wear you down" ships. The whole trick is to be able to do more damage to them than they can do to you. If you are able to kill one fast, you greatly increase the math to your side. If you can delete one a turn for the first two turns, you are doing very well. What about Palp Aces or Soontir Fel, Vader, or the other arc dodgers? Well, you need to learn how to get them in arc, but it's not that impossible, especially if you just need to get them in R2-3 and use your Focus instead of TL. You get a number of high red dice attacks on these guys and they can't evade them all. These aces tend to go Boom pretty fast if you can hit them.

Overall, when you can smash a ship or two in the first round or two of any enemy list, it's a good thing. I've used Alpha Strike in Wave 1 and 2 to good effect. If you can quickly reduce the enemy numbers without much lose it usually means you are going to win against almost any list. Just look at....I dunno...Paul Heaver's World's list. If you are able to blast Poe in the first round, I can see you winning that game, especially if a Y-wing dies in the next round, too.

I know you have been not liking Extra Munitions and thinking that ordnance is broken and all the new fixes can't help it, but have you actually tried them? Homing Missiles and EM have been good for months now. All the rest with Guidance Chip are good now, too. The only problem for cheap ordnance carriers is getting the TL. That's why the U-boats are good. That's why Long Range Scanners will be good, too, for low PS Bombers. I suggest trying some ordnance with the various fixes and I think you might be surprised.

try x3 grey squads with TLT and a Green with PTL adapability down refit and AT.

Greys shoot before the U-boats, and the Green is there to move before move quick and jam up their actions.

I think Ordnance is now looking pretty good and I would not be surprised to see more ordnance lists making top tier in the near-future. It is a slight shame that they require multiple cards to become efficient as this rather limits the ships that can make good use of them. As a rule of thumb, it looks like ships need 2+ torpedo slots and an EPT as a minimum to make decent ordnance carriers.

Gamma Vets and Contract Scouts are merely ahead of the curve in this regard. Rebels and Imps both have some named ships from previous waves who will work well although whether the extra cost for namers adds up will depend on the pilot in question. B-wings suffer somewhat as the cheapest namer costs 4 points more than the most expensive generic pilot. If B-wings had a Dagger Squadron Veteran with PS5 and an EPT for 25-ish points, they would be rocking too.

The K-wing is even more hampered than the B-wing by the lack of EPTs, even on the namers. Sticking on a weapons engineer for double target-locks is one solution although you would probably need at least a Guardian squadron ship as trying to reliably get target locks at PS2 is always going to be awkward. Deadeye addresses this well. LRS is another solution but competes with Chimps and hampers you at range 1-2. It looks in many ways like the best option for rebels is a single namer B-wing for alpha strikes.

Good old Horton Salm is actually a pretty good choice. His lack of EPT for Deadeye is not a problem as at PS8, he can usually get a target lock. He can reroll blanks naturally at range 2-3, Protorps have a built-in pseudo-Focus and Chimps will convert 1 miss to a hit. That means he should normally be getting 4 hits with at least 1 crit in there. That only costs 31 points with EM and leaves room for a turret and astromech if you want to give him a little extra utility once he has fired his torpedoes.

I really hope we see bombs become a thing as scouts seem very poorly suited to avoiding conners, thermals, proxys and clusters.

Hello

The 3 scouts thread is talking about the potential need to somehow nerf the scout or the upgrade cards it relies on

Just a quick thought, as everyone was previously saying the same about TLTs. Has anyone seen a 3 scouts vs 4 TLT Ys yet?

How does this fair, do the Ys just get blown away, or are the scouts doomed?

Against this:

The TLTs will just get murdered.

On alpha strike, a Y-Wing is down. On beta strike, a 2nd y-Wing is down. And none of the J3K are dead yet.

It's carnor's time to shine

That's what I thought!

The TLT's fire second. That is murderously bad.

The opening volley will see a TLT die. Then remaining TLTs will strip the shields off the first scout.

Now, for the TLTs to have a chance they'd have to fly in such a way to keep the scouts from every getting another torpedo shot, while staying at range 2-3 and being able to focus fire. Even then, the 2 die turret of the scout might be enough to get it done.

B-wings suffer somewhat as the cheapest namer costs 4 points more than the most expensive generic pilot.

And gets a torpedo turret. Don't underestimate Deadeye Nera.