Hello

The 3 scouts thread is talking about the potential need to somehow nerf the scout or the upgrade cards it relies on

Just a quick thought, as everyone was previously saying the same about TLTs. Has anyone seen a 3 scouts vs 4 TLT Ys yet?

How does this fair, do the Ys just get blown away, or are the scouts doomed?

I've not seen it played, but on paper, it looks like the Scouts should mop the floor with PS2 TLTs.

I think scouts will come on top.

Edit: just rechecked the other thread. Well, if they average 4 hits, then I'd give it to the Scouts easy.

In theory scouts ought to absolutely murder TLTs..They're more agile, and hit hard enough to kill a TLT a round between them, 1.5 if they're lucky, and have the HP to survive a minimum of 4 rounds against all 4 TLTs focus firing. It doesn't read like a good match on paper.

I've not seen it played, but on paper, it looks like the Scouts should mop the floor with PS2 TLTs.

You do know the jumpmaster without the title is only firepower 2.

So what will win? Well obviously the jumpmasters tactics would be to run straight for the Y-wings hitting them at range 1 where TLT doesn't work. Being 3 large based ships that can be easy to do. Throw in some Ion pulse or APL for crowd control and you might get those old Wave 3 cluster furball brawls which the jumpmaster excel then.

The Y-wings however will have the easy job and that is to keep their distance from the jumpmasters. If the jumpmasters head to face 1 Y-wing it will separate at range 3 leaving the other 3 to have clear shots and those 3 will stack more consistent damage than the 3 jumpmaster. Lets face it even with the PS boost TLT will win in the damage given damage received race.

I don't think 3 jumpmasters will be that great agaisnt Y-wings. If it were we would have seen 3 ORS against them already. Since we havn't seen masses of ORS running up and down the play mats I doubt that the jumpmaster would be any more successful. It is a good and well designed ship but I don't think 3 of them is the TLT-wing killer that players are looking for.

Are you forgetting that triple Js are equipped with Protons/Plasmas?

The alpha strike potential on these guys is quite massive. ORS doesn't have the tricks to do that.

I've not seen it played, but on paper, it looks like the Scouts should mop the floor with PS2 TLTs.

I don't think 3 jumpmasters will be that great agaisnt Y-wings. If it were we would have seen 3 ORS against them already. Since we havn't seen masses of ORS running up and down the play mats I doubt that the jumpmaster would be any more successful. It is a good and well designed ship but I don't think 3 of them is the TLT-wing killer that players are looking for.

Masses of ORS don't have the devastating torpedo alpha strike that U-Boats have, so this is totally apples to oranges

I've not seen it played, but on paper, it looks like the Scouts should mop the floor with PS2 TLTs.

I don't think 3 jumpmasters will be that great agaisnt Y-wings. If it were we would have seen 3 ORS against them already. Since we havn't seen masses of ORS running up and down the play mats I doubt that the jumpmaster would be any more successful. It is a good and well designed ship but I don't think 3 of them is the TLT-wing killer that players are looking for.

Masses of ORS don't have the devastating torpedo alpha strike that U-Boats have, so this is totally apples to oranges

So did guidance chips work or is there an actual build that makes something other than flechett torpedos useful? I still don't see how alpha-strikes would affect anything other than a point fortress build back in the days of Fat han and that was dead last year. So we got 3 2 firepower PWTs vs 4 TLTs. Y-wings have torpedoes too.

TLT Y-wings won't have torps. The Jumpmaster has the unique combo of double torpedo slot, astromech, crew (not used in this build) and EPT that really gives the ordnance a punch.

Contracted Scout: Guidance Chips, R4, Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions x3 is the build I believe. You move forward, take a focus, spend the focus (thanks to Deadeye) to fire the torpedo, gaining a TL from the R4. It gets 4 hits 71% of the time, if I remember right.

Of course, dice, maneuvering, etc come into play, but if they joust the Ys are hooped for sure.

TLT Y-wings won't have torps. The Jumpmaster has the unique combo of double torpedo slot, astromech, crew (not used in this build) and EPT that really gives the ordnance a punch.

It's the EPT that really enables it. Being able to fire with Deadeye enables them to shoot without locking, which is unprecedented in cheap torp carriers. You could do it with Red Vets, but Red Vets are a point more expensive, have fewer HP, and one fewer torp slots, plus don't have access to the Astromechs that make it possible to get rerolls.

In fact, how on earth is 25 points the right cost for the scout when Red Vets are a point more, and Gand Findsmen are the same?

FFG Game Dev: "Well sure, some one could run this combo... but they would have to stump up a pretty penny."

FFG Manager: "I'm sorry I don't see the problem."

I feel sorry for the Dev's, 3 and a half years of munitions are rubbish and not worth taking and now "Ohh noes! A good munitiions boat nerf boat!"

So if this is the big thing to beat how do you take it down?

Simply get close and arc dodge?

Will we see a further rise of soontir and the like?

TLT Y-wings won't have torps. The Jumpmaster has the unique combo of double torpedo slot, astromech, crew (not used in this build) and EPT that really gives the ordnance a punch.

It's the EPT that really enables it. Being able to fire with Deadeye enables them to shoot without locking, which is unprecedented in cheap torp carriers. You could do it with Red Vets, but Red Vets are a point more expensive, have fewer HP, and one fewer torp slots, plus don't have access to the Astromechs that make it possible to get rerolls.

In fact, how on earth is 25 points the right cost for the scout when Red Vets are a point more, and Gand Findsmen are the same?

Big ships get a discount because they have a larger base it's easier to catch them in arc, but I don't think turret ships should get it as there's really no major disadvantage for them like there is the shuttle for example.

Well, even if they ARE, do they have the means to strive in the awful PS8+ meta of tokenstackers, arcdodgers and auto humping thrusting aces

Doubtful about that I am!

TLT Y-wings won't have torps. The Jumpmaster has the unique combo of double torpedo slot, astromech, crew (not used in this build) and EPT that really gives the ordnance a punch.

it's really not unique in punch

it gets you a TL + chip, which is exactly the same as TL homing missile + chip or Redline + anything

it's unique in that it doesn't require a TL to shoot, making it much easier to enable v higher PS (does require focus and arc, though, so no brolling or bumping or stress and still getting to shoot; TL from previous turn will result in only GC for mods)

TLT Y-wings won't have torps. The Jumpmaster has the unique combo of double torpedo slot, astromech, crew (not used in this build) and EPT that really gives the ordnance a punch.

it's really not unique in punch

it gets you a TL + chip, which is exactly the same as TL homing missile + chip or Redline + anything

it's unique in that it doesn't require a TL to shoot, making it much easier to enable v higher PS (does require focus and arc, though, so no brolling or bumping or stress and still getting to shoot; TL from previous turn will result in only GC for mods)

Nope, because you can potentially TL from previous turn, take focus, spend focus to regain TL, use TL. You won't be able to convert eyes with the focus unless you rolled some initially, but there's nothing to stop you doing it in that order if you want, I don't think.

But this is the real point of the Scouts (and the forthcoming Long Range Sensors) - to enable the alpha strike to land in the first round of engagement, whereas previously it had to wait until at least the second, because the alpha lists have low PS and so they won't get a lock in the first under normal circumstances.

It's carnor's time to shine

It's carnor's time to shine

also Palob's

gonna need Cloak to close the gap, though

TLT Y-wings won't have torps. The Jumpmaster has the unique combo of double torpedo slot, astromech, crew (not used in this build) and EPT that really gives the ordnance a punch.

it's really not unique in punch

it gets you a TL + chip, which is exactly the same as TL homing missile + chip or Redline + anything

it's unique in that it doesn't require a TL to shoot, making it much easier to enable v higher PS (does require focus and arc, though, so no brolling or bumping or stress and still getting to shoot; TL from previous turn will result in only GC for mods)

That, and it's not unique and is cheap enough to get three onto the table, and it has a PWT when it runs out of torps

2 dice PWT is a mixed issue here

it'll perform really well against your typical jouster, or anything with low agility provided you have enough of them to get through stuff like the ghost w/evade + r2d2 (or any other 2-damage cancel combo)

but against a thruster ship, you may as well through in the towel unless you outnumber them. Even the Inquisitor, arguably the least defensively potent of the autothruster ships (comparing with soontir and poe, anyway), will solo a full health scout without issue. Well, provided you brought PTL, which you did because the Inq needs it to not scrub out to **** dice

A TLT list that "might" proove difficult for 3 scouts is a low pilot skill K-wing that moves first eqipped with advanced slam, extra munitions, Sabine crew, and three Conner Net upgrade cards.

That lets you slam into the formation of scouts starting from outside range 3 and drop Conner Net right in front of one of them. The scout moves through your Conner Net, takes damage (plus extra damage from Sabine), loses its action (no focus or target lock to fire a torp), and tqkes two ion tokens so it can only move one forward next round.

Granted, the K-wing that used Advanced Slam can't attack that round, but if you bring 2 or 3 other rebel ships with alpha strikes you should be able to take out one Scout thanks to the Sabine-buffed Conner Net.

Is that enough to help you defeat the other two scouts? I don't know yet. I'm just trying to brainstorm lists that might handle 3 scouts.

A TLT list that "might" proove difficult for 3 scouts is a low pilot skill K-wing that moves first eqipped with advanced slam, extra munitions, Sabine crew, and three Conner Net upgrade cards.

That lets you slam into the formation of scouts starting from outside range 3 and drop Conner Net right in front of one of them. The scout moves through your Conner Net, takes damage (plus extra damage from Sabine), loses its action (no focus or target lock to fire a torp), and tqkes two ion tokens so it can only move one forward next round.

That's a 48 point K-Wing.

I can't imagine a game where you'd be able to drop 6 Conner Nets.

I've not seen it played, but on paper, it looks like the Scouts should mop the floor with PS2 TLTs.

You do know the jumpmaster without the title is only firepower 2.

So what will win? Well obviously the jumpmasters tactics would be to run straight for the Y-wings hitting them at range 1 where TLT doesn't work. Being 3 large based ships that can be easy to do. Throw in some Ion pulse or APL for crowd control and you might get those old Wave 3 cluster furball brawls which the jumpmaster excel then.

The Y-wings however will have the easy job and that is to keep their distance from the jumpmasters. If the jumpmasters head to face 1 Y-wing it will separate at range 3 leaving the other 3 to have clear shots and those 3 will stack more consistent damage than the 3 jumpmaster. Lets face it even with the PS boost TLT will win in the damage given damage received race.

I don't think 3 jumpmasters will be that great agaisnt Y-wings. If it were we would have seen 3 ORS against them already. Since we havn't seen masses of ORS running up and down the play mats I doubt that the jumpmaster would be any more successful. It is a good and well designed ship but I don't think 3 of them is the TLT-wing killer that players are looking for.

No offense good sir, but as a guy who played against U-Boats 4 times in a store championship yesterday, I'm not sure you have a good grasp of this list.

Quad TLTs vs. Standard U-Boats, imho, can't stand more than 10% chance of winning the game, if both lists are run by competent pilots.

The TLT user would have to be insane good on the positioning and blocking, with a dial that's much, much worse than that of their foes. Quad TLTs holding their own vs 3x JumpMaster simply is not a reality, unless the player skill levels are skewed about as far as they can be skewed, in the favor of the TLT player.