If the Boba Fett (upgrade card) is used to remove an upgrade card that impacts total squad points, how is the total change in squad points handled?

1) If the removal of a card that causes the total squad points of a player to go over 100, does that impacted player have to remove a ship or upgrade card(s) to get to 100 squad points or less? The player using Boba Fett (upgrade card) could technically claim the opponent's squad is illegal and over 100 points, unless there is a stipulation in place. If this is the case, which player would choose what gets removed, to get the impacted players squad below 100 squad points?

2) If the removal of an upgrade card causes a change in who has the most squad points when the upgrade card is removed by the Boba Fett upgrade card, when does initiative change? Would it change at the end of the round or immediately?

3) For purposes of Swiss round points and for tournament points? Which point total would count if an upgrade card that modifies total squad points is removed? Would a total defeat be a 100 point total, or would it be the new modified total? Would a win equal 102 points, if a (future)TIE Defender or TIE Advance upgrade were removed? Or if case 1 happens, does it become a 76 point total victory (not counting 1 removed ship)?

I think the easier move overall would be Boba cannot remove ship names or titles for future cases. Though it would be funny to think that Bobba jettisoned himself out to space to Windex off the Millennium Falcon name plate.

Also this is why I stay away from tournaments, even if the Millennium Falcon situation makes me happy just a little.

in case of tournament play Fett does not discard nor is discarded-simply turn cards facedown.

same goes for "one use only" cards like ordnance, crackshots and glitterstims.

they are still considered when calculating MOV

The point values of ships are determined at the start of the game.

NOTHING that happens during the game changes their costs.

I bet it won't change the number of points a squad is worth, it rather just makes the upgades effects unusable. Such as a x7 would no longer give evades, nor do I think it will impact initiative, much like how using an ordinance upgrade.

Come think of it boba would turn a permanent upgrade to a limited use.

The point values of ships are determined at the start of the game.

NOTHING that happens during the game changes their costs.

Simple, accurate, and to the point when it comes to ship points.

The point values of ships are determined at the start of the game.

NOTHING that happens during the game changes their costs.

Right. Your list isn't suddenly worth 96 points the first time you fire a Proton Torpedo, and if the (old) Munitions Failure makes you discard an Ion Cannon Turret, your list isn't worth 5 points less. Discarding cards during play has no effect on the point cost of ships, or of your list as a whole.

As others said, the point cost is unchanged.

The only thing "remotely" related to initiative that Boba Fett "potentially" changes is if he flips a card like Veteran Instincts on an ace, lowering the ace's pilot skill and "possibly" changing the order of attacks so that the enemy scum ace fires first during the combat phases.

That said, I doubt Boba Fett will be used on VI very often ... you need one or more enemy ships with only one point lower PS (or two points lower PS plus initiative) to let enemy ships fire first on the ace that no longer has VI.

Your opponent will likely have other high-value upgrade cards that make a better target for Boba Fett's ability than VI.

in case of tournament play Fett does not discard nor is discarded-simply turn cards facedown.

same goes for "one use only" cards like ordnance, crackshots and glitterstims.

they are still considered when calculating MOV

Minor correction, but this was recently changed as part of the latest tourney rules:

Discarded Upgrade Cards: When a player is instructed to discard an Upgrade card, he or she places it under the Ship card it is attached to instead. Upgrade cards under Ship cards are out of play. Discarded Upgrade cards remain under the Ship card to which they are equipped; they are not placed into the score pile unless the ship to which they are equipped is destroyed.

I'm assuming this change is due to the introduction of Dual Upgrades, as flipping those over merely changes their effect.

That would be an interesting scenario.

Boba uses his ability remove Tycho's Chadraan Refit, opponent's squad now equals 102, opponent is booted from FLGS and disgraced in the forums as being a filthy cheater.

That would be an interesting scenario.

Boba uses his ability remove Tycho's Chadraan Refit, opponent's squad now equals 102, opponent is booted from FLGS and disgraced in the forums as being a filthy cheater.

Except the Refit was already paid for before the game started just like Jake's Procket was paid for.

Now if discarding thing from a ship changed its point value when killed I think that could open up a bunch of new play ideas. I think it would make ordnance carriers stronger as their value goes down when they shoot their load. However it also make a lot of those other discarding upgrades a lot stronger; I think Stealth Devices may make a strong return as you almost never would take out a ship that still has one equipped to it.

That would be an interesting scenario.

Boba uses his ability remove Tycho's Chadraan Refit, opponent's squad now equals 102, opponent is booted from FLGS and disgraced in the forums as being a filthy cheater.

Nope, because the opponents list is still 100 points, since it's only what's registered at the start of the match that matters.

I think it would make ordnance carriers stronger as their value goes down when they shoot their load.

Watch your language, young man!

That would be an interesting scenario.

Boba uses his ability remove Tycho's Chadraan Refit, opponent's squad now equals 102, opponent is booted from FLGS and disgraced in the forums as being a filthy cheater.

Except the Refit was already paid for before the game started just like Jake's Procket was paid for.

Now if discarding thing from a ship changed its point value when killed I think that could open up a bunch of new play ideas. I think it would make ordnance carriers stronger as their value goes down when they shoot their load. However it also make a lot of those other discarding upgrades a lot stronger; I think Stealth Devices may make a strong return as you almost never would take out a ship that still has one equipped to it.

That would be an interesting scenario.

Boba uses his ability remove Tycho's Chadraan Refit, opponent's squad now equals 102, opponent is booted from FLGS and disgraced in the forums as being a filthy cheater.

Nope, because the opponents list is still 100 points, since it's only what's registered at the start of the match that matters.

I know .. I was just highlighting a ridiculously exaggerated hypothetical scenario based on the OP.

That would be an interesting scenario.

Boba uses his ability remove Tycho's Chadraan Refit, opponent's squad now equals 102, opponent is booted from FLGS and disgraced in the forums as being a filthy cheater.

Except the Refit was already paid for before the game started just like Jake's Procket was paid for.

Now if discarding thing from a ship changed its point value when killed I think that could open up a bunch of new play ideas. I think it would make ordnance carriers stronger as their value goes down when they shoot their load. However it also make a lot of those other discarding upgrades a lot stronger; I think Stealth Devices may make a strong return as you almost never would take out a ship that still has one equipped to it.

That would be an interesting scenario.

Boba uses his ability remove Tycho's Chadraan Refit, opponent's squad now equals 102, opponent is booted from FLGS and disgraced in the forums as being a filthy cheater.

Nope, because the opponents list is still 100 points, since it's only what's registered at the start of the match that matters.

I know .. I was just highlighting a ridiculously exaggerated hypothetical scenario based on the OP.

We actually had a league like this at my FLGS back in Wave III, due to the TO/Owner not being as rules intensive as I am.

I ran Howlrunner with Stealth Device and Adrenaline Rush, 2 Scimitars with Proton Bombs, and filled the rest with Academies.

Why, yes, I'll take that damage wonderfulness with an endgame discount of 14 points, thank you very much.

And yes, it was entirely as a "No, it doesn't work like that, and here's an example why" list.

Now if discarding thing from a ship changed its point value when killed I think that could open up a bunch of new play ideas. I think it would make ordnance carriers stronger as their value goes down when they shoot their load. However it also make a lot of those other discarding upgrades a lot stronger; I think Stealth Devices may make a strong return as you almost never would take out a ship that still has one equipped to it.

We actually had a league like this at my FLGS back in Wave III, due to the TO/Owner not being as rules intensive as I am.

I ran Howlrunner with Stealth Device and Adrenaline Rush, 2 Scimitars with Proton Bombs, and filled the rest with Academies.

Why, yes, I'll take that damage wonderfulness with an endgame discount of 14 points, thank you very much.

And yes, it was entirely as a "No, it doesn't work like that, and here's an example why" list.

But wasn't it fun to be so different? I mean can you unload your ordnance to kill enough points that as long as you can keep someone alive your opponent can't score enough points? Fire off 4 points and kill of 30 seems like a great trade.

Just think how the Imperial super bomber could do if you could cut something like 6-10 points off its death value every round. Tricky part is that using this may actually make Extra Munitions a dangerous upgrade as not you get more shots but do not get to off load the actual ordnance card as quickly and then when you die you still have that upgrade sitting on the ship.

Now if discarding thing from a ship changed its point value when killed I think that could open up a bunch of new play ideas. I think it would make ordnance carriers stronger as their value goes down when they shoot their load. However it also make a lot of those other discarding upgrades a lot stronger; I think Stealth Devices may make a strong return as you almost never would take out a ship that still has one equipped to it.

We actually had a league like this at my FLGS back in Wave III, due to the TO/Owner not being as rules intensive as I am.

I ran Howlrunner with Stealth Device and Adrenaline Rush, 2 Scimitars with Proton Bombs, and filled the rest with Academies.

Why, yes, I'll take that damage wonderfulness with an endgame discount of 14 points, thank you very much.

And yes, it was entirely as a "No, it doesn't work like that, and here's an example why" list.

But wasn't it fun to be so different? I mean can you unload your ordnance to kill enough points that as long as you can keep someone alive your opponent can't score enough points? Fire off 4 points and kill of 30 seems like a great trade.

Just think how the Imperial super bomber could do if you could cut something like 6-10 points off its death value every round. Tricky part is that using this may actually make Extra Munitions a dangerous upgrade as not you get more shots but do not get to off load the actual ordnance card as quickly and then when you die you still have that upgrade sitting on the ship.

Except it wasn't to be different from the norm: dude just wouldn't listen to me about how tournaments are run....

Sorry I started this beast (bantha).

Unfortunately none of the steps say it outright, but upon discussion here:

It probably would not hurt in the errata or future FAQ to just outright state [Nothing during the game can impact or change squad points during play, squad points are set during the "Gather Forces" phase during setup and never change after that point]. And put the reference in the "Gather Forces" step of Setup. (instead of pieces of information in 6 different paragraphs in 3 different manuals).

Corollary to points never changing during the game, it probably wouldn't hurt to state once initiative is set at the beginning of the game during the Determine Initiative step it will never switch players. (Also call it something specific as there is an overall game initiative and pilot initiative)

There is an updated FAQ The "Gather Forces" phase is the only location where points are listed as being set, but never that they are not mutable during gameplay. Sadly the rulebook doesn't mention anything about setting points in the step of the game specifically broken out to set squad points. Most cards when used "reduce", this is the only one case a negative cost card (that is usually permanent) is ever "removed" where all face up cards can now total over 100 points, instead of under. There are 6 paragraphs in the FAQ, L2P, and Rules Reference that once put together you basically get the sentence DraconPyrothayan said above.

If Boba Fett only causes the card to be flipped when discarded, I am now curious how the Dual Upgrade cards would work in this situation.

...until AsMo/FFG makes a card in the next wave to undo all of this.

If Boba Fett only causes the card to be flipped when discarded, I am now curious how the Dual Upgrade cards would work in this situation.

I imagine we'll see an faq for edge cases such as this, but I believe that flipping Adaptability via Boba Fett would simply make the new side face up active. Most likely reducing the PS by 1 - assuming most cases would deploy with PS +1 face up.

Also, given that we don't see squad points changed by the removal of 'refund' upgrades we likely won't see upgrades become 'illegal' by removing any card that allows for their equipping/use a la tractor beam via Misthunter. Any bonus abilities specific to the card (such as gain the barrel roll icon in this instance) would be invalid but the tractor bean itself would stay valid.

Except they changed the tourney rules: Discarded cards, rather than getting flipped, are hidden under the Pilot card.

​To stop that very interaction.

Except they changed the tourney rules: Discarded cards, rather than getting flipped, are hidden under the Pilot card.

​To stop that very interaction.

Except they changed the tourney rules: Discarded cards, rather than getting flipped, are hidden under the Pilot card.

​To stop that very interaction.

That makes sense for any double-sided cards.

It also opens the door for those Flip-Flop mechanics some people are calling for regarding dual upgrades.

Sorry I started this beast (bantha).

Unfortunately none of the steps say it outright <snip>

You mean the paragraph like this one that lists the step of calculating the points?

Calculating a Player’s Score

A player’s score helps determine who won the game in certain circumstances

and is used to calculate Margin of Victory. Each player calculates their score

by adding together the total squad point value of their opponent’s destroyed

ships, including Upgrade cards equipped to those ships. In addition, each

player receives half the total squad point value (including Upgrade cards),

rounded down, of each enemy large ship whose combined total hull and

shields, including any Hull Upgrades or Shield Upgrades, have been reduced to

half or below.

Add all the points of all the cards of any destroyed ships. How much clearer would you like it to be?

Except they changed the tourney rules: Discarded cards, rather than getting flipped, are hidden under the Pilot card.

​To stop that very interaction.

It also negates Tomax Bren's ability.