In response to

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205915-cheat-caught-on-video/

Dial manipulation issues would be entirely eliminated if the rule was simply,

"Dials may only be flipped to reveal a maneuver for ship activation once the activation phase has begun!" They may not be looked at for any other reason during the activation phase except "Intelligence agent" or a card/pilot ability allowing such an action. (I think that is the card.)

If you dont remember the maneuver you placed on a ship during the planning phase, oh well, that is part of flying!

My original group played it that way about six months til a discussion at these forums was started about it. It was much more fun that way as you often barrel rolled or boosted into the path of another ship accidently. Just like "real" dogfights! HMMMM......

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.

While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

That would be the death of swarms.

There's already a rule in place for this issue. Page 5 of the X-Wing FAQ:

"After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform his opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."

Ask your TO's to clear this rule up at tournaments, and remind your opponents. If your opponent tells you before he picks his dial up, there's less doubt of his intentions.

EDIT: This rule has been removed in the new FAQ. I ask EVERYONE to message FFG and implore it to be added back. This simple rule alleviates all instances of any foul play with messing with dials!

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.

While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

But in competitive play if you pick up your dial during activation phase doesn't that mean you HAVE to move that ship now? It would seem that in casual play you could play it like that but not at a competitive level.

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

That would be the death of swarms.

Whats wrong with making people remember how their ships are moving? It makes everybody concentrate a bit more on flying and reduces the chance of cheating! WIN-WIN!

There's already a rule in place for this issue. Page 5 of the X-Wing FAQ:

"After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform his opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."

Ask your TO's to clear this rule up at tournaments, and remind your opponents. If your opponent tells you before he picks his dial up, there's less doubt of his intentions.

just remember this when going to a tournament.

There's already a rule in place for this issue. Page 5 of the X-Wing FAQ:"After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform his opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."Ask your TO's to clear this rule up at tournaments, and remind your opponents. If your opponent tells you before he picks his dial up, there's less doubt of his intentions.

No question about the current rule, I say change it due to the cheating issue!

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

That would be the death of swarms.

I see both of these as "good things!" And Swarm players just have to concentrate more on flying, it wouldn't be their death...

Whats wrong with making people remember how their ships are moving? It makes everybody concentrate a bit more on flying and reduces the chance of cheating! WIN-WIN!

SMH

Some of us like flying 5+ ships. And Epic Tournaments would just be a nightmare. Plus as its been stated: page 5 of the rulebook already has a solution.

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

That would be the death of swarms.

I see both of these as "good things!" And Swarm players just have to concentrate more on flying, it wouldn't be their death...

Whats wrong with making people remember how their ships are moving? It makes everybody concentrate a bit more on flying and reduces the chance of cheating! WIN-WIN!

SMH

Some of us like flying 5+ ships. And Epic Tournaments would just be a nightmare. Plus as its been stated: page 5 of the rulebook already has a solution.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205915-cheat-caught-on-video/

Add epic play to the headache. Looking at your dial is kind of important, especially when your huge ship is right behind you and threatening to squash stuff.

There are so many ways to cheat in this game. Personally I would rather lose fairly than win by cheating. I played in a game (video available online) where my opponent clearly fudged a hard 1 maneuver with Ten Nunb + mangler cannon so that he could get a shot at Soontir Fel. I had set up a block for him to bump into another one of my ships. Instead of riding it in straight the half inch or so (almost not moving), he turned his ship. He did it so fast (which was unusual) that it would be hard to place the ship back down accurately. I protested moderately, but he insisted it was a mistake, so I let it go. It taught me a good lesson. When I was at World's, I called a judge over for anything I thought was suspect (which sadly was often). It's the only way to catch these guys as they become repeat offenders.

There are so many ways to cheat in this game. Personally I would rather lose fairly than win by cheating. I played in a game (video available online) where my opponent clearly fudged a hard 1 maneuver with Ten Nunb + mangler cannon so that he could get a shot at Soontir Fel. I had set up a block for him to bump into another one of my ships. Instead of riding it in straight the half inch or so (almost not moving), he turned his ship. He did it so fast (which was unusual) that it would be hard to place the ship back down accurately. I protested moderately, but he insisted it was a mistake, so I let it go. It taught me a good lesson. When I was at World's, I called a judge over for anything I thought was suspect (which sadly was often). It's the only way to catch these guys as they become repeat offenders.

It seems a shame guys think they have to cheat so they have a chance to win a few bits of plastic and/or metal!!! And I'm guessing most of these guys dont see top 4...

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

That would be the death of swarms.

I see both of these as "good things!" And Swarm players just have to concentrate more on flying, it wouldn't be their death...

Whats wrong with making people remember how their ships are moving? It makes everybody concentrate a bit more on flying and reduces the chance of cheating! WIN-WIN!

SMH

Some of us like flying 5+ ships. And Epic Tournaments would just be a nightmare. Plus as its been stated: page 5 of the rulebook already has a solution.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205915-cheat-caught-on-video/

1. Video was removed.

2. From the descriptions in the forum, how is that situation not covered by the existing rule?

The player didn't consult his opponent, and changed his dial. Both of which are already illegal. There will always be cheaters. Just last weekend at a store championship I was watching a guy play my brother and he rolled two hits and a blank, then rotated the blank to a crit. When I asked him why he did that he denied it after trying to distract me by running through all the tricks his list could do. My brother ended up kicking his @$$ so I let it go. But there is already a rule against what he did, and he still tried to get away with it.

Point being new rules will not prevent people from trying to get around them, its enforcement of rules that counts when you get to the table. If you want to make new rules just to make new rules run for congress. Meanwhile just watch your opponent. It sucks that not everyone can play with honor, but no amount of new rules readdressing what old rules already addressed will change that.

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.

While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

But in competitive play if you pick up your dial during activation phase doesn't that mean you HAVE to move that ship now? It would seem that in casual play you could play it like that but not at a competitive level.

Unfortunately, no! In "real" wargames this would be true, but XWing is more like card games in how the rules work together.

See some of the other responses in this thread for the actual rule references.

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.

While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

But in competitive play if you pick up your dial during activation phase doesn't that mean you HAVE to move that ship now? It would seem that in casual play you could play it like that but not at a competitive level.

Unfortunately, no! In "real" wargames this would be true, but XWing is more like card games in how the rules work together.

See some of the other responses in this thread for the actual rule references.

If you do not ask your opponent or inform him that you are just "looking" at your dial, then you ARE flipping it to move that ship. I don't see how it could be viewed any other way?

This is an awful, awful idea. It would break a lot of lists in order to fix a problem that is exceedingly rare and that ALREADY has a solution in the current rules.

These sorts of negativity-based posts about rare instances of cheating are bad for the community. If you have a local player who you think is cheating bring it up to the player or to the TO. Keep it off the internet.

No question about the current rule, I say change it due to the cheating issue!

Making the game worse, when there's really no need to is not a good idea. This will make the game worse, because it makes it harder to fly some types of lists. And as has been pointed out there is already a rule in place for this.

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.

While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

But in competitive play if you pick up your dial during activation phase doesn't that mean you HAVE to move that ship now? It would seem that in casual play you could play it like that but not at a competitive level.

Unfortunately, no! In "real" wargames this would be true, but XWing is more like card games in how the rules work together.

See some of the other responses in this thread for the actual rule references.

If you do not ask your opponent or inform him that you are just "looking" at your dial, then you ARE flipping it to move that ship. I don't see how it could be viewed any other way?

This is part of the issue...

If you pick up a dial for a PS 9 ship but PS 3 should be activating, what do you do?

I say hands off everything no matter what til its time to activate solves it!

If you do not ask your opponent or inform him that you are just "looking" at your dial, then you ARE flipping it to move that ship. I don't see how it could be viewed any other way?

If I pick up my YT-1300 dial when you're moving your PS1 ships does that mean Han has to activate now, out of PS order?

Of course not, so no picking up your dial is not the same as activating your ship. It is however against the rules if you don't inform the other guy first.

There's already a rule in place for this issue. Page 5 of the X-Wing FAQ:

"After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform his opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."

Ask your TO's to clear this rule up at tournaments, and remind your opponents. If your opponent tells you before he picks his dial up, there's less doubt of his intentions.

This is no longer in the new FAQ they just released V 4.1.1 which goes into effect April 2nd.

Sorry but that's a bad idea. If I have more than one ship with same PS I should be able to look at them all so I know which one I want to move first.

While it may be more exciting for you and your group, it would have a huge impact on competitive play.

But in competitive play if you pick up your dial during activation phase doesn't that mean you HAVE to move that ship now? It would seem that in casual play you could play it like that but not at a competitive level.

Unfortunately, no! In "real" wargames this would be true, but XWing is more like card games in how the rules work together.

See some of the other responses in this thread for the actual rule references.

If you do not ask your opponent or inform him that you are just "looking" at your dial, then you ARE flipping it to move that ship. I don't see how it could be viewed any other way?

This is part of the issue...

If you pick up a dial for a PS 9 ship but PS 3 should be activating, what do you do?

I say hands off everything no matter what til its time to activate solves it!

I saw mention of this in another thread where it was dealt with at worlds and FFG stated that the player who tried to move the higher PS ship first, loses his/her action for that ship this turn. Can't remember the thread right now off hand though.

This is no longer in the new FAQ they just released V 4.1.1 which goes into effect April 2nd.

Doesn't matter really. The rules don't state anywhere that picking up a dial means you activated that ship.

I saw mention of this in another thread where it was dealt with at worlds and FFG stated that the player who tried to move the higher PS ship first, loses his/her action for that ship this turn.

That is something different. That's a case of someone trying to activate a ship out of PS order. Also they shouldn't lose the activation, because they can't legally activate it, so unless they actually put a template down and moved it then I can't see why they'd lose the ability to activate it latter.

There's already a rule in place for this issue. Page 5 of the X-Wing FAQ:

"After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform his opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."

Ask your TO's to clear this rule up at tournaments, and remind your opponents. If your opponent tells you before he picks his dial up, there's less doubt of his intentions.

This is no longer in the new FAQ they just released V 4.1.1 which goes into effect April 2nd.

God dammit FFG. Way to remove a core rule that limits cheating. I'm sending them an email to add it again. I would suggest everyone else does so too.

There's already a rule in place for this issue. Page 5 of the X-Wing FAQ:

"After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform his opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."

Ask your TO's to clear this rule up at tournaments, and remind your opponents. If your opponent tells you before he picks his dial up, there's less doubt of his intentions.

This is no longer in the new FAQ they just released V 4.1.1 which goes into effect April 2nd.

God dammit FFG. Way to remove a core rule that limits cheating. I'm sending them an email to add it again. I would suggest everyone else does so too.

Oh my! Yes, this opens a can of worms, unless the rule is changed as I have suggested!