(pasted from a reply in another thread)

I think the truth is this is it for Wave 3. I think the missing SKUs were likely items under development that are either being pushed back (most likely), re-evaluated for testing purposes (unlikely due to the lead time we've had), or cut entirely (least likely). My hope is "Wave 4" comes hot on the heels of 3, but is equally atomic. At that point, I'd be fine with dropping the "wave" concept entirely, and just coming out with small expansion sets twice a year.

All the sleuthing everyone is doing is being colored by people's hope that our wait was worth it. I think the truth is the ability to deliver to the market is at a tough spot right now, and whatever other SKUs were planned for wave 3 are being postponed. Was the image cropped? Clearly. Doesn't mean it's a hint. Means the other products in the wave are no longer in the wave.

I am not upset by that. Sure, I'm disappointed that we don't get more new big spaceships! But fear naught. Armada is successful. It isn't going away. X-Wing is their flagship game, and they're going to choose it over anything else when a choice must be made. It doesn't mean they hate Armada, it just means economics and production priority dictate action be taken. Have you seen X-Wing's sales? And hot on the heels of Episode VII and all the Star Wars hype? Something has to give, and you absolutely cannot blame FFG if Armada (which, due to the nature of the pre-painting and same plastic used) is it. Again, Armada is successful and will continue to be so.

Now to further explain my perspective. I've worked in the gaming industry. I've seen the other approach companies can attempt where they keep churning out products without giving themselves a break. It is ugly... much uglier than allowing a hiccup in production to figure out a way to catch up. When you start making excuses for why promised products keep getting pushed back, people get angry... angrier than when they weren't promised a new product at all.

Now, my only real gripe is... I just wish FFG could say something to assuage people's fears, but we all know their approach almost always errs on the side of silence, and for the most part that has worked for them... whether we like it or not.

edit: And as a follow up, I want to make clear- I am tremendously excited for these lil' Flow Teeyahs. Yes, I would've preferred a massive wave, but I am still excited to see what these fellas bring to the game.

I have zero issue with what is being released in wave 3. The potential for the depth of game play Flotilla's add is far beyond what adding a couple more 'normal' ships would have. Wave three, for me, completes what a fleet should contain as its basic components and lays the foundation for new ships that will certainly be coming later.

Although we have no play testing in the general community, what we have seen so far leads me to believe we are in for some really deep tactical options entering an already deep game.

Agree completely regarding the wave. I just can't see the point of announcing a wave but for some odd reasoning ffg is secretly only announcing half of it.

I think people are reaching due to some odd Christmas morning disappointment syndrome where they desperately want to believe that Santa hid more toys behind the tree.

I disagree, but mainly because GAMA is a trade show, as opposed to a con. I think something else will drop at Adepticon, the show that's actually meant for the players to see. I think the flotillas are what they were ready to show. You do have a very valid and rational argument, however. I just hope you're wrong. I'm still piecing together waves 1 and 2, though, so it wouldn't bother me to have more time to do so lol.

It's also possible that Herr Maus won't let them show the rest yet.

I agree that this is most likely it. And at least what they are giving us, if it just has to be one thing, is something that is a huge game changer. I feel they are also wanting to be careful so something doesn't break the game, and having an (alleged) 15-20 point squadron pusher/repair monkey is a big change. They might want to see where the dust settles before finalizing their other products. I think more ships would be sweet, but here's hoping they are trying to get on a more steady, regular schedule that coincides more with their new tournament structure. I am guessing whatever Wave 4 is, it might be another 1 ship-per-side release, but one that will come much sooner than the drought between 2 and 3.

Also, after looking closely, I think the Flotillas are NOT painted. I bet the originally planned to have them be painted, but perhaps keeping up with all the pre-paints is the bottle neck they're facing. So, they put out a wave with un-painted ship which is, presumably, much simpler to do. Any other big ships have to wait in the painting queue!

We don't need no stinkin' wave III

We've got shapeways

Wave III is going to drop and it's going to be awesome.

I think if they are able to put product in hand in July, its going to eliminate a great deal of the bad feelings about not having more ships.

If, on the other hand, we dont see these things until november, I imagine the community will be less forgiving.

I'm super excited about what these little guys are bringing to the table though, and I'd be very happy with smaller, more consistent releases. 4-6 SKU's a year spead over 2-3 releases from here on out would be fine by me.

I still wish they would talk to us more though.

They said a Q3 release, which would mean July, August, or September, right? Unless they are on some whackadoo schedule.

I would like to primarily stop in to this thread to say two things:

• I think the absolutely insane and massive sales volumes for FFG are the root cause of delays. They probably have capacity issues at the factories they are working with in China, especially with regard to pre-painting, and might be looking into alternate solutions like additional capacity, 3D printing, automation, etc., but also have to be careful about excessive capex and overcapacity. It is a delicate dance and going slowly with some delays is probably the smart long-term move, so I would urge the community to be patient with FFG here.
• I object STRONGLY to the idea that Steve is sober. I, in fact, have it on good authority that he has been given a lifetime supply of alcohol for his gaming endeavors and I can all but assure you that, as of right of the moment this thread was posted, he's so wasted it was ghost-written by Jud.

Who hacked into WWPDSteven's account and started this thread?

How do I know he was hacked you ask?

Simple ... it uses the word "sobering" and WWPDSteven does not have that word in his vocabulary.

EDIT: I agree with whomever hacked WWPDSteven's account and posted this.

This is him. He asked me to post this.

edit: A little Conquest inside joke there, for any of you forumites who also do the Emperor's Will via card gaming!

I watched the GAMA session which was great that someone streamed it.

To me it felt more like it was a session aimed at game store owners ... which duh, that's the point of the conference.

We don't know when the "next" thing might be announced, but now we know when we get to have our hands on that thing to add to the game.

If you think about it Wave II ships didn't really show up until late last fall. Given how FFG works, they build enough stock to then push out to all the stores and it's not till that is ready do they do so. They don't trickle things out. It probably works in our favor that it's a smaller set of ships to be added to the game. Building that inventory to push out is then easier. This concept of fairness that all stores get the new thing at the same time isn't easy when there are a lot of new things. Reduce the number of new things that need to get pushed out and you can probably do it more than once a year....

As a result, I think it the chances of seeing another addition to the game announced sometime this year is higher. Given that FFG is trying to align their calendars, would it be so crazy for them to also be aligning their product calendars? I'm thinking not.

Steve. I think you broke your fence perch, man! :-)

Definitely more to come.

As an owner of an injection mold plastic business, the flotilla is a tiny project. Especially unpainted. That's like a few weeks production at most.

For the wave to be this far out, there are certainly other ships in their "painting queue"

With a q3 release, they have four months to tease us with the new wave....

The sky is not falling.... Rather they are following pretty standard marketing 101....

I don't particularly care either way wether this is it or not.

Every change they make to the meta - every addition - no matter how widespread or small, has *massive* flow on effects for the game, for extended periods.

It goes back and forth as well.

Gladiators were a big change.

Assault Frigates were a big change.

Wave 2 was a big change... Urgh. So much. and people whined so much about that at the start, too... Everyone was up in arms about the ISD... Then they were up in Arms over Ackbar... Then still up in arms over Rhymer... Then up in arms over the Fireball... Then up in arms over the Clonisher...

People react. Which means people Over-react.

I am a big believer in the straight forward concept of "Well, what are you going to DO about it?"

Whining about changes - big or small - is about as effective as Chewing Gum to Solve Algebra... You put a lot of effort in, but in the end, your only accomplishment is a wad of tasteless crap and an Unsolved Algebra Problem...

... stop leaving the tasteless crap where other people have to see it.

There are things you can do instead.

Organise a Petition.

Vote with your Wallet.

But whining doesn't get you anywhere but a downward spiral of negativity.

Not to mention, I'm looking forward to painting these for people. I am sure that people are going to want either alternative schemes or at least squadron-like differentiation on it.

I honestly think, regardless of testing and manufacturing issues (of which I'm sure there are plenty), that a slower release schedule fits Armada better than X-Wing. (Take this with big grain of salt; I haven't played much X-Wing so I'm guessing on a lot of this.)

X-Wing has quicker games, which works much better for pickup games. Armada is a lot more planned...both players need to have a few hours to spare, and you will probably only get through one game in an evening. If a strategy doesn't work in X-wing, you can probably make a tweak and immediately play another game. In Armada, if something doesn't work, you need to go back to the drawing board, and it might not be until next week that you can try again. Meanwhile, that Imperial Raider that you bought two months ago hasn't gotten any play time because you're still working out tweaks to your Rebel tournament fleet...but I digress...

I would imagine the meta gets worked out WAY quicker in X-Wing than in Armada. In fact, I still don't feel like there's a meta for Armada. In the big Indianapolis tournament there was tons of fleet diversity. The ramifications of Wave 2 are still rippling.

It sounds to me like people have gotten used to getting new toys often, and it might take some adjustment for people to realize this is a very different game that requires a very different approach. I don't think the community will go away, because hey--it's still Star Wars. But I can see the community staying much smaller but also very engaged, as long as they can find ways to keep playing.

Miferr has a valid point.

This game takes a lot more work and effort to get things just right. You have far more things to consider when you build lists, deploy your ships, and the actions you choose.

This "lead" is a good thing for me TBH.

Gives me much more time to paint my Rebel fighters...and figure out some shady Nebulon B lists.

They said a Q3 release, which would mean July, August, or September, right? Unless they are on some whackadoo schedule.

This is FFG. I've been buying FFG stuff for easily for 15+ years. I'm a bit of a Fan boy.

I can tell you a Q3 release date means Q4 at the earliest. Its not just an Armada thing, it is every release they have ever done thing.

If this gets to stores by July I would duck and cover because the world is going to end.

I'm relearning how to play the **** game. I mean I can take time waiting.

I'm relearning how to play the **** game. I mean I can take time waiting.

Right?

This is why I do not get all the complaining. Man, the game is so complex (not rules wise) how can you even think about something new?

These 2 little ships are adding even more complexity to fleets, I just do not think everyone is seeing it yet.

First everyone is complaining there is no news?

Then they get an announcement and everyone is rage quitting. I would sure like to know if these are the same people. My guess is they are. I bet if they announced the SSD they would still find something to complain about.

If you do not like it go play Attack Wing. You can have a million models and have a totally unbalanced gaming experience.

I've seen Steve say it before, and I even have hard time, but we just have to ignore these people. Do not even put a single post replying to them. Let them go away.

I would like to primarily stop in to this thread to say two things:

• I think the absolutely insane and massive sales volumes for FFG are the root cause of delays. They probably have capacity issues at the factories they are working with in China, especially with regard to pre-painting, and might be looking into alternate solutions like additional capacity, 3D printing, automation, etc., but also have to be careful about excessive capex and overcapacity. It is a delicate dance and going slowly with some delays is probably the smart long-term move, so I would urge the community to be patient with FFG here.
• I object STRONGLY to the idea that Steve is sober. I, in fact, have it on good authority that he has been given a lifetime supply of alcohol for his gaming endeavors and I can all but assure you that, as of right of the moment this thread was posted, he's so wasted it was ghost-written by Jud.

Good point about capacity. Another thing to consider, is the possibility that the productions costs are higher than the other games, resulting in a lower margin for FFG. In which case, Armada is definitely going to take a back seat to other games. Armada is very popular and may be selling well, but it might be more costly to produce.

My guess is that Wave 3 was SUPPOSED to be 4+ ships. Then they had delays, delays, delays. The fine folks at FFG said "Well, we can announce Wave 3 in Q4 2016 with a release in Q2 2017, or we can put out half of Wave 3 in Q3 of THIS year and give them SOMETHING." Something is better than nothing, but I wish there was some better communication. A nice PDF of campaign rules, non tournament legal objectives, and other items that would cost very little in terms of staff or production would be great to help tide us over as well, IMO.