The timing. The little tips up to see the dial. This is all pretty blatant.
Take to break out the SHAME bells,
cheat caught on video??????
His action of placing the Decimator dial all the way across the board after he flipped it, as if he was making sure that his opponent saw the maneuver that was on the dial, looks like a subconscious response to his shady dial handling. Especially since he didn't flip with Advanced dial and "show" it to his opponent.
Yeah. Even his body language immediately after he ceases manipulating the dial is suspect.
The prayer-like, fingers-interlocked posture he strikes is something I would describe as "aggressively casual", the kind of thing you might do as a unconscious/semi-conscious display of attentive, well-behaved calm at a moment when you're feeling the risk of exposure for a transgression. Then he ostentatiously rolls up his sleeves and does the overly-grand presentation of the dial.
I skimmed through other parts of the game and he doesn't show a tendency to make such "big" gestures at subsequent points.
I do not have a PhD in anything. Well, actually, I had a bout of Phat Han Disorder last year, but it's since been treated.
having a PhD in physics, I'm all about experiments. so I tried to "nervously" finger a dial the way the guys does in the video.
I am now ready to publish a paper, titled: "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.", as the guy in the video does repeatedly. why would you risk changing your dial unless you're actually trying to change it? I think this guy practiced at home.
whether his opponent considers him a nice guy or not is quite irrelevant, how many people keep a close eye on their opponent while moving your own ship?
also, whether he posted the video himself or not doesn't matter. haven't you heard of the criminals who self-incriminate? like that guy who posted on his facebook account his running away from the police and he got caught because of the photos he posted.
as part of the conclusions of my paper, I can also report that the guy in the video has opposable thumbs, a trait commonly linked to some kind of intelligence, something that might have to be reconsidered at this point.
As being a normal guy without a PhD I too sat down and recreated, as best I could, this video. I was very surprised how easy it was to change your dial, their is virtually nil resistance. I put all my dials in a bag, randomly chose different dials and did this experiment. As XBear has said, "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.". This is why FFG has stated that you cannot touch your dial without express permission from your opponent. You could be playing someone who is focused on their game and not noticing you fiddling with the dials.
I did this experiment 100 times to gather a large enough population to get enough data for a conclusion. Yes it bored me to tears after the 5th one, but I felt I had to gather enough data to make the correct conclusions.
Lessons learnt for everyone here is, regardless if this guy cheated or not, he should never have touched the dial as FFG regulations state. Also record your games if you can, how well can you trust your opponent if winning is everything to them in this fantastically fun game? Sad state of affairs if people are cheating over a game, which at the end of the day has 0 impact on your actual life.
I am now applying for a grant to further study this problem. you seem to have a knack for science in spite of your lack of formal higher education, so feel free to send your resume. Ideally, X-wing players would volunteer to run an appropriate number of "dial manipulation" experiments, so that we rule out any variance across different geographical locations (after all, the original instance happened in Germany, and who knows if the same dial behavior can be replicated in the US?) and other parameters. Your responsibility would be to coordinate the volunteers so that every trial is conducted to proper scientific guidelines. Salary is negotiable.
I will also request FFG's sponsorship to continue this important research, though I fully guarantee that any results will not be influenced by FFG's financial support.
Firstly I would like to say I cannot believe I wrote their instead of there...
I believe a pairing could work for the both of us XBear lol, I will send a resume post haste. As for cross geographical variance, I am in Australia, I did notice that the dial did try and turn the opposite way as in the Northern Hemisphere, much like the toilet water after flushing. I do like the idea of coordination of volunteers though, I wonder if the volunteers should know the hypothesis, exciting! You also mention pay! This is good news lol.
I believe FFG would be mad not to sponsor this important research, I mean it is their dials that bought this whole thread into being. Responsibility is a heavy burden!
we are already making so much progress, hemisphere influences from Coriolis forces!
@XBear & archangelspiv: As an analytical chemist I would like to be a part of your team. Though I realize the chemist part is not likely to come into play here (but who knows where these trials might lead us), I feel like the analyst part could be a valuable asset as I spend most of each work day reviewing data, crunching numbers and inputting both into a database. I track trends, evaluate bias and conduct blind and double blind tests for verifications.
I feel like I could be a valuable and contributing member of your team. Please consider my inclusion.
Thank you.
we should definitely analyze chemical variances in the dial materials and study their effects as well.
In fact, I'm glad to report, my dear colleagues archangelspiv and thatdave, that I just received this email from FFG:
Dear Dr. XBear,
your sponsorship application is so very welcome! I was reviewing the video in question and I was worried that issuing a ban would anger our legal department (they don't like to speak in absolutes, everything must be "may" or "may not"). Having a team of scientists investigate this matter would allow me to forget about it until everyone else has. Or, just as well, your team could find enough evidence to justify my decision pointing at the science and avoiding (hopefully) any responsibility on my part.
In fact, our dials are cheaply produced and therefore easily manipulated. [I can confirm to the cheaply made part, since several times during a tournament I picked up a dial and it was right in between the maneuver I had picked and the next one.XBear].
To be honest, Dr. XBear, I work here at FFG at minimum wage and I cannot afford to play X-wing (even if I wanted to, which I do not). I review and answer questions from TOs (for example, I'm the guy who responded to that recent inquiry about a winner conceding to the loser in order for his losing friend to make it to the top cut, where I said it was OK); I also ship replacements for damaged parts (that's why it takes 3 weeks for me to reply to your requests); I swipe the floor and paint each miniature one by one (that's what is really happening when a new wave says "on the boat", my office is called "the boat" at FFG).
So, dear Dr. XBear, I shall heartily recommend to my boss your sponsorship is approved. Hopefully, you and your team can receive a new set of acrylic range templates soon.
Dear FFG: I think there was a miscommunication. I requested a grant of about $500,000. I urgently await your clarification so that our highly qualified team of researchers can proceed with haste.
Edited by XBear
Heads up.
The guy who uploaded the original video reported me to Youtube so they have removed the copy I uploaded.
It is therefor no longer online.
Heads up.
The guy who uploaded the original video reported me to Youtube so they have removed the copy I uploaded.
It is therefor no longer online.
Then host it outside of youtube. His actions are really really sounding like someone who knows he was cheating and trying to cover it up. If you can't figure it out, send me a PM and I'll put it up somewhere for FFG to review.
I'd send it to FFG instead, otherwise this will seem like a witch hunt.
Edited by KeffischI'd send it to FFG instead, otherwise this will seem like a witch hunt.
It has been send through the proper channels, just wanted to give heads up so people know why its no longer at the link provided.
I'd hope that with 14500+ views this has already been reported, at least a few times. Though admittedly I have not reported this, assuming that it has already been done by someone else.
If he has nothing to hide and the video proves it, why is he fighting so hard against having it available? Frankly, I was neutral on the whole thing (aside from how 'checking' the dial like that is impossibru without moving it), but that raises my suspicions.
I'd send it to FFG instead, otherwise this will seem like a witch hunt.
I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact you can slow down the video and see the dial physically moving. Throw in his bizarre body language (like how he throws the freakin' dial at his opponent afterwards), and this isn't a "witch hunt", it's a case of "bro, you're busted.".
The guy blatantly cheated and I have zero sympathy for him.
If there was any reasonable doubt, I'd feel different. But there's zero doubt.
Heads up.
The guy who uploaded the original video reported me to Youtube so they have removed the copy I uploaded.
It is therefor no longer online.
I'm thinking that anyone who was going to see it probably had in the 2.5 days between your post and the previous one. I guess this could be getting a little traction again due to another topic but I still suspect that anyone who was going to watch it already had.
Now as a point of reference one could stage their own video showing approximately what happened but that would run into all sorts of accuracy issues that would be lost, or exaggerated, from the original.
As for him being nice, I've known plenty of people who seemed nice turn out to be horrible. Latest one was a man working at the school I was working at, who turned out to be a pedophile.
Now, I'm certainly not comparing the guy in the video to a pedophile, I'm just saying "the guy seems nice" isn't a good defense either.
No that subway guy looks like a nice guy
I get not wanting to to falsely accuse people or drum up suspicion in an unwarranted manner. Still, the detailed evidence explained throughout this thread makes a very clear and convincing case that this player altered a dial intentionally during a Store Championship level game to gain an advantage.
No one is saying that he isn't a nice guy outside of X-Wing or that he hasn't made positive contributions to the X-Wing community.
But, assuming FFG confirms the pretty obvious case made here (as it's their final decision): he's exercised poor judgment and acted inappropriately. He deceived his opponents and disrespected the game game and has actively tried to deny and cover-up rather than owning and apologizing for his behavior. He may be a great guy overall, but at least on the X-Wing table he is not and his actions are unforgivable. A single instance of dishonesty is too much to tolerate in gaming, and once you ruin your reputation you've pretty much blacklisted yourself from an activity that requires having others willing to play with you. Cheating at any game defeats the entire purpose and wastes everyone's time and money who are involved, whilst also doing irreparable damage to the community as players become increasingly paranoid of their opponents and skeptical of the quality and caliber of the community. His days of playing competitive X-Wing should be over, at least for awhile. Gaming simply cannot abide cheaters.
The accused has quit the competitive X-Wing scene in Germany. And if guilty or not he definitely got a serious online slamming (in the German community). Every one Füc#s up at some stage in their life and i think he has more then suffered for what transgressed
This should have never ever be posted on any forums. If you find a cheater or think you found one present the evidence to FFG or the TO and wait for them to take action.
Starting a witch hunt on the internet is not the way to handle stuff like that.
This should have never ever be posted on any forums. If you find a cheater or think you found one present the evidence to FFG or the TO and wait for them to take action.
Starting a witch hunt on the internet is not the way to handle stuff like that.
I completely disagree. Cheating once in boardgaming is already too much, and it should be a zero tolerance kind of policy. As gamers, the only defense we have against cheaters is to rely on reputation when choosing who we play with. Our free time is valuable, as is our money (when we buy ships, travel, and pay tourney fees). When someone cheats, they should face a public shaming so that the rest of us can know whom to avoid (or who to play at our discretion, if we're very forgiving).
I agree that "witch hunts" and accusations should not be thrown around lightly or without evidence, but in this case there existed ample video evidence of this individual cheating. Surely FFG gets to make a final call on his official ban (or non ban) from FFG events, but this wasn't some mere "he said" vs "he said" kind of witch hunt.
This was: hey:watch this video at times x, y, and z on 1/2 speed. Not the movement of the fingers, dial, and flexing of the muscles. Note that it only happens when the opponent is distracted and when a crucial unexpected maneuver occurs. Note the unusual body language and way the dial is presented immediately after. Note the way this "nervous habit" does not occur during any other moments. and so forth
This should have never ever be posted on any forums. If you find a cheater or think you found one present the evidence to FFG or the TO and wait for them to take action.
Starting a witch hunt on the internet is not the way to handle stuff like that.
I completely disagree. Cheating once in boardgaming is already too much, and it should be a zero tolerance kind of policy. As gamers, the only defense we have against cheaters is to rely on reputation when choosing who we play with. Our free time is valuable, as is our money (when we buy ships, travel, and pay tourney fees). When someone cheats, they should face a public shaming so that the rest of us can know whom to avoid (or who to play at our discretion, if we're very forgiving).
I agree that "witch hunts" and accusations should not be thrown around lightly or without evidence, but in this case there existed ample video evidence of this individual cheating. Surely FFG gets to make a final call on his official ban (or non ban) from FFG events, but this wasn't some mere "he said" vs "he said" kind of witch hunt.
This was: hey:watch this video at times x, y, and z on 1/2 speed. Not the movement of the fingers, dial, and flexing of the muscles. Note that it only happens when the opponent is distracted and when a crucial unexpected maneuver occurs. Note the unusual body language and way the dial is presented immediately after. Note the way this "nervous habit" does not occur during any other moments. and so forth
Yeah, some people here seem to think it's a witch hunt and a "mob mentality" even if the guy is obviously cheating.
Hell, I'm willing to bet that some of the people here would still defend the accused if there was a video of them taking away damage cards from the deck and putting them in their pocket.
Cheating does occur at the game table. Those that don't think it does are being naive. I saw my opposing player change a die face in a recent store championship game, for damage from flying over an asteroid. He doesn't know I saw it, my attention was on the ship movements at the next table and my head was turned side on to our game, but I have excellent peripheral vision and noted the movement from a hit to a focus on the dice. He immediately called the focus result to my attention and therefore whether I was going to challenge the roll. I had already lost one of my primary ships to bad green dice rolls and I was unlikely to win this game against his mostly undamaged squad, so I just acknowledged the roll and we moved on, but I held his eye for a moment before doing so, long enough to make him wonder if I knew. There were no cameras recording and I am a relative newbie to the tournament scene, whilst he has been involved for years and is tight with all the top players in my area. All of this flashed through my head while I made the decision to not object and not start a his word against mine dispute with the TO.
Did it bother me? Sure. I mean he had the upper hand at the time, and the ship he fudged on was not even in my target range. To me the cheating seemed pointless and it was because it was pointless that I let it go, but obviously by making this post it does still bug me. He gained nothing by the action. I lost the game but I already knew I was in an uphill fight and was not likely to win. The dice fudge did not alter that outcome in any way. What bugs me is why he did it, and if he did it on such an inconsequential action does that mean it is common practice for him to do so. All it resulted in is that now I know and in future games I will be more vigilant in observing his gameplay, and I lost respect for him as a player and as a person.
Edited by UumbukuVerdict by FFG.https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/spolicy/
The list now has 2 People om it
Edited by HolmelundYeah, some people here seem to think it's a witch hunt and a "mob mentality" even if the guy is obviously cheating.Hell, I'm willing to bet that some of the people here would still defend the accused if there was a video of them taking away damage cards from the deck and putting them in their pocket.I completely disagree. Cheating once in boardgaming is already too much, and it should be a zero tolerance kind of policy. As gamers, the only defense we have against cheaters is to rely on reputation when choosing who we play with. Our free time is valuable, as is our money (when we buy ships, travel, and pay tourney fees). When someone cheats, they should face a public shaming so that the rest of us can know whom to avoid (or who to play at our discretion, if we're very forgiving).I agree that "witch hunts" and accusations should not be thrown around lightly or without evidence, but in this case there existed ample video evidence of this individual cheating. Surely FFG gets to make a final call on his official ban (or non ban) from FFG events, but this wasn't some mere "he said" vs "he said" kind of witch hunt.This was: hey:watch this video at times x, y, and z on 1/2 speed. Not the movement of the fingers, dial, and flexing of the muscles. Note that it only happens when the opponent is distracted and when a crucial unexpected maneuver occurs. Note the unusual body language and way the dial is presented immediately after. Note the way this "nervous habit" does not occur during any other moments. and so forthThis should have never ever be posted on any forums. If you find a cheater or think you found one present the evidence to FFG or the TO and wait for them to take action.Starting a witch hunt on the internet is not the way to handle stuff like that.
I agree, it seems obvious he's cheating. The problem is, something seeming obvious does not make it correct.
Verdict by FFG.https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/spolicy/
The list now has 2 People om it
Temporary Suspension - think that means they haven't made their minds up yet?
From what I heard it was to prevent him from participating in a upcomming SC.
A time for the ban will be decided later
Edited by HolmelundAre the TO's allowed to not allow certain people entry at their own discretion, or if they hold an official tournament are they compelled to let anybody enter except those on FFG's list? I think it should be the latter.
Are the TO's allowed to not allow certain people entry at their own discretion, or if they hold an official tournament are they compelled to let anybody enter except those on FFG's list? I think it should be the latter.
It seems odd that if you as a store owner bans a player for cheating or misbehaving at a MtG tournament are NOT allowed to keep him/her from entering an X-wing tournament.
Are the TO's allowed to not allow certain people entry at their own discretion, or if they hold an official tournament are they compelled to let anybody enter except those on FFG's list? I think it should be the latter.
It seems odd that if you as a store owner bans a player for cheating or misbehaving at a MtG tournament are NOT allowed to keep him/her from entering an X-wing tournament.
The problem is you could have a TO who's just a bad person, maybe racist or homophobic or just for some other reason has it in for a given person and doesn't want to let them play. I think it would be right for FFG to say "if you're using our name, hosting an official tournament kit, then you let anybody enter who isn't on our ban list".