of course the K-wing is better than the Tie Punisher, everything Rebel which is similar to Empire is always better, they don't want to give empire Turrets or aux arcs

of course the K-wing is better than the Tie Punisher, everything Rebel which is similar to Empire is always better, they don't want to give empire Turrets or aux arcs

false, at least for various definitions of whateverthehell "better" means

see, Miranda is a far more effective late game than any punisher

by contrast, Redline is a far more effective ordnance dispenser than any K-wing (including miranda)

K-wings are obviously better turrets, because punishers can't turret

Deathrain is, imo, the far more effective conner net because the foward-bomb is far easier to use in far more situations than a-SLAM and he can fall back on standard butt-bomb

now rebels do have sabine, but they basically need her to make conner Ks a reality. Empire has high-damage options such as Omega L and Vader whereas the Rebel equivalents, namely wedge and stresshog, are too squishy or overlap too much with conners (StressY being an action-denying control-orientated support piece, which is exactly the same as conners). Stuff like Poe just doesn't have the punch to follow up on conner nets, because that **** bounces off naked greens all the **** time

with sabine, you can actually make a punchy bomb themed list that is potentially more durable than Deathrain + OL + Vader, but nowhere near as maneuverable or perhaps even as powerful in the late game

This K-wing v Punisher comparison came up explicitly at the Store Championship, where I knew Palp Aces had taken the last 3 (rebel superiority, eh?) and I knew I wanted to conner their faces in because it would hard-counter them. Deathrain won out by a landslide due to ease of use and which wingmen he could take with him. Took first place there, despite losing my first round to the MTA (late = 0 mov loss ). There were no rebels after the cut to top 4, just me two palp aces and a bro-bots

given the option to do it again with Sabine rebels, I'd still go deathrain

the blanket term "Better" really adds nothing to the comparison of the two ships

Incidentally, NYC store champ victors in chronological order:

• Palp Aces (2nd place Miranda, so close!)
• Palp Aces (2nd place also palp aces)
• Palp Aces (2nd place replaced palpatine with Omega Leader and soontir with whisper)
• Deathrain (2nd place brobots, followed by two palp aces)
• Crackswarm

of course the K-wing is better than the Tie Punisher, everything Rebel which is similar to Empire is always better, they don't want to give empire Turrets or aux arcs

I have been playing this game for three and a half years. In all that time, players who prefer the Empire have complained constantly that Rebels always had better stuff. This happened even when Imperial lists were taking the vast majority of actual tournaments. I don't know where it comes from. I don't know why you don't see Rebel players whining that they don't have an equivalent to Fel or Whisper or Palpatine (or, soon, Vessery). I don't know why the people making this claim don't actually look at what's winning consistently in the overall metagame.

But even more to the point, I have been playing Imperial lists, on and off, for three and a half years. In fact, I've never played Rebels in person at a major tournament (though I have on Vassal). I've occasionally looked at another faction and thought "Hey, I wish I had something that worked that way," but I've never pitched a hissy fit about it because the Empire also has toys the other factions don't.

You people are on my last freaking nerve today. Time to take a break from the forum, I think.

Curious on your take on a Deathrain squad I'm planning on flying, FGD. Same VI Vader, but replaces OL with VI Inquisitor. Don't know your Deathrain load out, but mine has Conners, Proxies, EM, and Enhanced Scopes.

I really don't think you can count out Redline either.

With Guidance Chips and his ability, he has a 84% chance at 3 hits from each cluster attack, 70% at 6 hits total. Higher if he has a focus.

Paired with another hard hitter like Vessery, who is also getting a major boost you can do a lot of up front damage.

of course the K-wing is better than the Tie Punisher, everything Rebel which is similar to Empire is always better, they don't want to give empire Turrets or aux arcs

false, at least for various definitions of whateverthehell "better" means

see, Miranda is a far more effective late game than any punisher

by contrast, Redline is a far more effective ordnance dispenser than any K-wing (including miranda)

K-wings are obviously better turrets, because punishers can't turret

Deathrain is, imo, the far more effective conner net because the foward-bomb is far easier to use in far more situations than a-SLAM and he can fall back on standard butt-bomb

now rebels do have sabine, but they basically need her to make conner Ks a reality. Empire has high-damage options such as Omega L and Vader whereas the Rebel equivalents, namely wedge and stresshog, are too squishy or overlap too much with conners (StressY being an action-denying control-orientated support piece, which is exactly the same as conners). Stuff like Poe just doesn't have the punch to follow up on conner nets, because that **** bounces off naked greens all the **** time

with sabine, you can actually make a punchy bomb themed list that is potentially more durable than Deathrain + OL + Vader, but nowhere near as maneuverable or perhaps even as powerful in the late game

This K-wing v Punisher comparison came up explicitly at the Store Championship, where I knew Palp Aces had taken the last 3 (rebel superiority, eh?) and I knew I wanted to conner their faces in because it would hard-counter them. Deathrain won out by a landslide due to ease of use and which wingmen he could take with him. Took first place there, despite losing my first round to the MTA (late = 0 mov loss ). There were no rebels after the cut to top 4, just me two palp aces and a bro-bots

given the option to do it again with Sabine rebels, I'd still go deathrain

the blanket term "Better" really adds nothing to the comparison of the two ships

Incidentally, NYC store champ victors in chronological order:

• Palp Aces (2nd place Miranda, so close!)
• Palp Aces (2nd place also palp aces)
• Palp Aces (2nd place replaced palpatine with Omega Leader and soontir with whisper)
• Deathrain (2nd place brobots, followed by two palp aces)
• Crackswarm

basically what i'm reading is the MTA needs to be buffed by FFG.

SOMEONE has to buff the MTA

Curious on your take on a Deathrain squad I'm planning on flying, FGD. Same VI Vader, but replaces OL with VI Inquisitor. Don't know your Deathrain load out, but mine has Conners, Proxies, EM, and Enhanced Scopes.

Vi ATC EU Vader

Juke relay OL

AC conner seismic extra deathrain (had tie mk2; did nothing)

Could see swapping ac for an upgrade to the inquisitor, but without ptl I'm honestly not sure if OL doesn't just hut harder v aces

Best of luck either way

I have been playing this game for three and a half years. In all that time, players who prefer the Empire have complained constantly that Rebels always had better stuff. This happened even when Imperial lists were taking the vast majority of actual tournaments.

And even while Imperials are winning, you hear that the Rebels are "dominating." Let's look at the data.

In the current store championship season, for tournaments of 24 or larger:

- 42% of lists are Rebels

- 36.3% of lists are Imperial

- 21.7% of lists are Scum

So, slight plurality Rebels.

But as soon as you get to the cut and beyond, the Imperials have the upper hand.

- Rebels comprise 38.3% of the Top 8, dropping steadily to 31.6% of winning lists

- Imperials comprise 41.6% of the Top 8, increasing steadily to 47.4% of winning lists

- Scum, meanwhile, consistently hold about 21% of lists through the cut and win, which basically tracks their general population.

Put visually:

Guess they're confusing the games with the movies

Guess they're confusing the games with the movies

Or they can't deal with the fact that other people are better at flying Imperials than they are.

I love the Punisher. It's obscure and strikes fear when it hits the table, if only because most of the players in my area aren't familiar with them. I've grown confident with my Redline build, and I'm ready to try Deathrain.

What would be a good buil for the generics though? 30-ish points is a pretty big investment for a niche that would normally be filled by something a bit expendable, if any part of a 100pt list could be considered so.

oh man, not even I'd touch the generics

way I see it is the generic bomber >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generic punisher

so, logically, you'd have to find a punisher-specific reason to build one (and not have it be beaten soundly by deathrain or redline)

all the punisher has is boost + System slot

AC on 2 dice is good fun, though it simply cannot be more efficient than the Tie Advance

Cluster missiles sorta work okay with AC? All other missiles can be more effectively handled by the bombers' sexy new guidance chips

so that's 30 points a punisher (ACC. cluster missiles and munitions + g-chips cause they're free)? 32 gets you PS 4?

Now, Redline slaps the **** out of them in the Cluster missile department, but he's also 8 points more expensive...so maybe? Why take them over Advance? Idk; extra munitions? Seismic charges?

very maybe

EDIT:

Okay, I got this list

Inquisitor (ptl, tie/v1, thrusters)

2 Gamma bombers (homing, seismics, munitions, chips)

Black Squadron (Crackshot)

"upgrading" to Black 8s take the Gamma Bombers from 27 each to 32 (jesus tap-dancing christ)

so you could have 2 and the inquisitor for 97? can't even fit FCS on each

derp can't math

34 each with FCS

34+34 = 68 + 31 = 99

So two FCS Black 8s with homing + seismic (gchips) & PTL Inquisitor

What about:

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Electronic Baffle (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Proximity Mines (3)
Conner Net (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Electronic Baffle (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Proximity Mines (3)
Conner Net (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Colonel Vessery (35)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Tractor Beam (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Because why not?

I get it that Rebels are the preferred faction, I've accepted that.

I stopped reading here. The culture of victimization "Imperial players" have built around themselves is hands-down my least favorite thing about the online X-wing community.

Well, think about it. What are the strengths of the imperial? Swarms and ace arc dodgers. What are the strengths of the rebels right now? Swarms of turrets. Rebel is the hard counter to imperial, which is why I've had to start playing scum now.

I get it that Rebels are the preferred faction, I've accepted that.

I stopped reading here. The culture of victimization "Imperial players" have built around themselves is hands-down my least favorite thing about the online X-wing community.

Well, think about it. What are the strengths of the imperial? Swarms and ace arc dodgers. What are the strengths of the rebels right now? Swarms of turrets. Rebel is the hard counter to imperial, which is why I've had to start playing scum now.

I'll remember that next time my Decimator dies and Soontir has to take down Miranda and Dash, both nearly full health, by himself. And does.

Complain less, play more.

I had a "Blast" recently with a budget Deathrain

Deathrain

ion Bombs

Proton Bombs

Extra Munitions..

35 pts

I Dumped the ion bomb, got bumped and therefore ioned myself... but also splashed Wedge and Poe.

Next turn dumped out a delicious delicious proton bomb on both of them and whoop-whoop-whooped away

(luck on my part, by far the best bomb drops, in the 6 times i've used them in 2 years lol)

Guess they're confusing the games with the movies

Or they can't deal with the fact that other people are better at flying Imperials than they are.

Point.

As to reply to vorpal sword, problem is that rebel players want to play the Imperial way, arc-dodging and oozing style all over the place, imperials want the resilience and regen the rebel ships have.

I just wish bombs were a little bit better. FFG is being extremely cautious regarding ordnance. This is wave 8 and we haven´t had a bomb or a missile that comes close to being ovepowered. The only ordnance carrrier that gets to have fun is the K-wing and that´s because it´s a viable combat ship on its own (with TLT) so the bombs are a bonus.

I was really excited for Deathrain but only 9 shields/hull with agility 1 isn´t good enough. It´s kind of the same situation as with Keyan Farlander. A really fun ship but too vulnerable in the sense that the opponent can reliably take it down fairly quickly because of low agilty and slow dial and be 40% done killing your list.

Deathrain >>>>>> keyan

Tlts suck but aces are lunch meat

Keyan does poorly against both

Let's just wait and see how Sabine does with bombs...

Let's just wait and see how Sabine does with bombs...

no need to wait, already went to see

absolutely dumps on poor aggressors; havn't found a palp ace willing to subject himself to double damage conners though

Miranda (TLT, seismic, seismic, sabine)

Biggs (r4d6; integrated)

Warden (autoblaster, munitions, conners, a-slam)

biggest concern is torpmaster Scouts. Biggs is there to answer that (and Stress Y); no idea if he'll actually manage to hold them off long enough for bombs to matter. It's a lot of hp; would sooner put faith in Omega L and Vader cleaning house than just poor Miranda