No, This is not a topic about the cutting edge toilet bowl. I'm referring to the one being punished - TIE Punishers.

The generics are severely inefficient (Bombers do their job just fine) and Deathrain's ability is not good enough to let us see him more on competitive scene. Only Redline is good enough to be played competitively. Is this ship doomed to join the monopilot monobuild club?

On the other hand, K-wing is enjoying a lot of love. Potent generics, awesome Unique pilots, TLT, turret primary and SLAM. Then Sabine comes to push their already amazing aptitude for bombing runs even further. I don't hate K-Wings. I love them. I just wish Punishers get at least a small portion of that love.

I get it that Rebels are the preferred faction, I've accepted that. But isn't there any way to improve the condition for imperial bombers?

Imperial Aces II is coming out remember?

Deathrain is awesome though! In fact I prefer deathrain to redline (at least before guidance chips, maybe now I'll really dig redline). I wish we had a Sabine crew card on the imperial side lol.

I've already been trying Long Range Scanners on them. In a bomb list, the inherent extra TL is not enough to help the ship.

Guidance chips of course will help for torps and missiles, but its still not that great.

Here's my most recent secret sauce. I'm sharing it cuz I haven't been able to make these competitive. If you do make Punishers competitive, I'll know. Or you should tell me.

Electronic Baffle

Imperial Aces II is coming out remember?

Are you that TARDIS guy from the other topic? Can you let me know If I've finally won the 2017 Worlds?

Deathrain is awesome though! In fact I prefer deathrain to redline (at least before guidance chips, maybe now I'll really dig redline). I wish we had a Sabine crew card on the imperial side lol.

His ability is good - no doubt. But they could've made the first part of his ability (deploy with front guide) applies to all punisher pilots in the form of unique action bar or make it as punisher title instead of locking it down to Deathrain. Then we'll see them flying like a real bomber squadrons

I've already been trying Long Range Scanners on them. In a bomb list, the inherent extra TL is not enough to help the ship.

Guidance chips of course will help for torps and missiles, but its still not that great.

Here's my most recent secret sauce. I'm sharing it cuz I haven't been able to make these competitive. If you do make Punishers competitive, I'll know. Or you should tell me.

Electronic Baffle

I agree that Electronic Baffle can surprise enemies to drop mines, but they don't really work for the torps and missiles. What the Punishers can do, K-wings can do it better. There's nothing unique, nothing that screams "Imperial bombers" about them apart from the system upgrades - If that even matters.

I think when it comes down to it, Punishers will be the best munition carrier for the imperials for awhile. Having said that, I don't know if they are a particularly effective one. The systems slot really helps them perform that role a bit better than the Bombers, but the lack of an EPT hurts them.

I think they are decent now with Chips and, once Imp Vets hits, LRS, but it's probably not enough for them to hit tables.

What's REALLY sad is, if the Contracted Scout hadn't instantly became the go to munition platform the moment it was fully spoiled, people might actually be excited to try out munitions on the Punisher with Guidance Chips...

I think the main problem with Redline and Deathrain is that because of their cost, they really need someone biggsing for them. Not that they're soft targets; for their cost they're fairly durable. It's just that they hit so hard the opponent will focus them down as soon as possible. This is doubly true if they're accompanied by some unhittable bastard like Fel or Whisper.

Oh and not to mention TLT just eats them alive. Forget about trying to save deathrain. 5 turns he's gone.

Oh and not to mention TLT just eats them alive. Forget about trying to save deathrain. 5 turns he's gone.

Give Deathrain 5 turns and he's gotten all his munitions off. If he lives 5 turns, that's a win for the Empire.

Forget about trying to save deathrain. 5 turns he's gone.

5 turns! what a record! My punishers are goners by the 3rd round....

In terms of basic stats the Tie Punisher kind of looks like the B-wing or the G1A-Starfighter, but unlike those, it only has 2 attack-dice! and is missing the (red) hard 1-turns.

I really like the model and the concept of a really heavy bomber, if it where up to me, a Title giving it a free 1-2 point rebate on all secondary munitions (and bombs) would help.

I have also been toying with an idea of a Unique Title "Devastator", allowing you to equip all and any munitions for free, but which can only be used on a ship with pilot-skill < 5, something that really boosts a single generic, which you then could use your other ships to try protect until it has delivered its full devastation, which it never will, but then you only payed for the generic and perhaps an accuracy corrector or a shield upgrade. And still have Soontir or Vader to finish up the job.

You know the nickname of Snake from MGS:V? PUNISHED venom snake

so I just couldn't stop myself

Talonbane also, yet another casualty of TLT.

Anyway, let's make that another thread. Back to Punishers. Who's got a workable list that's good against some meta?

I was playing with this also:

Deathrain

EM

Seismic

Seismic

LRS

32 points.

Very cheap. For aces, all you need is the 1 damage anyway. So this also gives Deathrain a lot of shots and even perhaps one bomb to reposition with BR. Also because its so cheap, you don't mind bombing a few TLTs and then losing Deathrain and letting your ace clean up.

One free TL F shot too. But off 2 dice.

"Deathrain" (26)

I was thinking of trying this now we have new toys!

"Redline" (27)
Fire-Control System (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Crack Shot (1)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Crack Shot (1)

Total: 99

Keep the Black Sqds with Redline acting as blockers if needs be and have the Inquisitor hanging out on the flank.

Might put Tracers on the Inquisitor to hand out target locks to everyone if I feel the int bid isn't worth it.

Deathrain's ability is not good enough to let us see him more on competitive scene.

Paging ficklegreendice. Someone needs to hear about your tournament win.

Deathrain's ability is not good enough to let us see him more on competitive scene.

Paging ficklegreendice. Someone needs to hear about your tournament win.

I think at least one person either won or came in the Top 4 at a SC with Deathrain. I wouldn't say he/she is not "competitive". Especially good with all the ace builds out there. I think one person won a SC and there might be one or two others who came in top 4.

I think Guidance Chip is all you need for the named Tie Punishers. Long Range Scanners will be good for the generics, especially with FCS. I do think that maybe the best System for the named ones is Sensor Jammer. Anything to help it stay alive longer is what I think. Also, maybe the target will spend it's Focus on offense, instead of defense when the ordnance comes!

I don't think you will ever see more than 1 Punisher in a list. It's just not the type of ship that can do well with more than one.

I disagree with Kdubb and think the Tie Bomber really is the best ordnance carrier. It's cheaper and holds enough. It's got a better dial. Still hard to kill in one round.

There is a local guy who loves Tie Punishers. I was thinking of making some sort of special scenario about a squadron of 4 fully loaded Tie Punishers to make a run on a Scum facility. Lots of turrets and crap ships for defense. Have some sort of bunker at the end that has to be blown up. Make it a 3 x 6 table. Maybe have some escorts for the Punishers as Tie Fighters (but not too many). Just have an awesome scenario where Tie Punishers get to zoom in and blow the crap out of things! I'd love to see it, even as the defending player.

Has anyone tried the Punisher in epic yet?

I get it that Rebels are the preferred faction, I've accepted that.

I stopped reading here. The culture of victimization "Imperial players" have built around themselves is hands-down my least favorite thing about the online X-wing community.

gotta take issue with Deathrain not being good enough

if your meta is nothing but aces and brobots, he will win tournaments and store championships for you

the difference between Deathrain and someone like Soontir is that Deathrain is very tough to play and requires a LOT of practice

also, there's a bit of a catch between the K and Deathrain

see the K is a great mine-layer with A-SLAM, but it's not easy at all because it has to fart out the rear pegs. So really have to fenangle with the dial and think a few turns ahead to get the most out of it

Deathrain, meanwhile, is a far more reliable conner dispenser

I get it that Rebels are the preferred faction, I've accepted that.

I stopped reading here. The culture of victimization "Imperial players" have built around themselves is hands-down my least favorite thing about the online X-wing community.

it is also among the most incorrect

not sure if it's above or below the perceived infallibility of TLTs (might be a direct offspring)

gotta take issue with Deathrain not being good enough

if your meta is nothing but aces and brobots, he will win tournaments and store championships for you

I get it that Rebels are the preferred faction, I've accepted that.

I stopped reading here. The culture of victimization "Imperial players" have built around themselves is hands-down my least favorite thing about the online X-wing community.

it is also among the most incorrect

not sure if it's above or below the perceived infallibility of TLTs (might be a direct offspring)

Makes sense. The local meta is filled with TLTs. Now, I personally don't feel that TLT is OP, but the thought of bringing him to a tourney where everyone bring at least 1 TLT ship to the table made me avoid playing with deathrain in the competitive scene.

Probably a stupid question, but once you conner someone (a Brobot for example) then what? Sure, he's predictable for a turn but it isn't exactly a lot of damage.

depends on the TLTs

at the end of the day, Deathrain's got boost and access to accuracy corrector. If you're facing low PS TLTs, he's not going to be deadweight. Hell, you can actually make him more maneuverable than soontir for 2 turns by dumping seismics for rolls (you're not hitting TLTs with seismics anyway; they never chase)

depends on the rest of the squad, ofc, but assuming you're playing empire you'll always bring ps 4+ and Deathy can pitch in to kill low PS TLTs before they shoot

high PS TLTs? Rougher, but at least you got good targets for conners

not an ideal matchup, ofc, but not unwinnable. Deathy's there to party with aces and brobots, but it doesn't mean he can't hang with the little people

Makes sense. The local meta is filled with TLTs. Now, I personally don't feel that TLT is OP, but the thought of bringing him to a tourney where everyone bring at least 1 TLT ship to the table made me avoid playing with deathrain in the competitive scene.

One TLT does little to nothing to Deathrain. Give him an Accuracy Corrector and he'll take that Y-Wing apart before it can kill him, without even dropping a single bomb. They're only really a problem in multiples.

Probably a stupid question, but once you conner someone (a Brobot for example) then what? Sure, he's predictable for a turn but it isn't exactly a lot of damage.

You kill it? When something's predictable, generally that gives you a better chance of pointing all your guns at the spot where you know its going to end up (all the better if you can make sure none of your ships are in that ship's firing arc!)

Probably a stupid question, but once you conner someone (a Brobot for example) then what? Sure, he's predictable for a turn but it isn't exactly a lot of damage.

oh sorry I missed this

here's how it goes

one of two things will happen

Thing #1:

the match becomes 100 points versus 50

Thing # 2: you just kill the prick