Starting to think those against this rule are being intentionally obtuse. This rule or one almost exactly like it is in practically every game that has a settled tournament format. It's intended to not force players to compete against their best interests.

if both players are aware of standings entering the final round and both make the cut if they don't lose then forcing them to play it out is against their interests. A gentlemans agreement to not fight is in both parties best interest and thus it is included in games that are meant to be competitive. Disagree with it all you want but this is a necessary evolution for any game that means to continue growing competitively.

What troubles me is judges I've seen who have simply stated that using an ID will result in them disqualifying both players for colluding. This is explicitly against the tournament rules and I sincerely hope FFG hammers these judges and TOs if they follow through on their threats.

What if I let the rest of the room decide whether you should be allowed to take that intentional draw, since you're being so honest about it. I mean, it sounds totally anti-competitive to me, but nobody's judgment is perfect. So I'll pose the question to the rest of the players in this hypothetical tournament. How would you explain it to them?

I don't understand your viewpoint.

What would you prefer? That both players, realizing that a Draw is in their best interests castle their ships and sit there for 75 mins so you can come over and declare the match a draw instead?

The reality is if two players know the rules and that a draw would benefit them, you cannot force them to play optimally. So why try to? I think FFG has taken a very practical approach here.

I have a story about a concession in another game I will share if you like. Long story short: We were not allowed to Concede/ID in that game and we made a complete farce of our match so that we could do so. Everyone watching had a good laugh, but there was nothing the TO could do to stop us, since we did nothing outside the rules of the game. He didn't like it, but he couldn't DQ us without being reported.

You could try to call that collusion, but I would dare you to prove it in the situation. In a vacuum, it would have looked like two friends having a fun and amusing game. The reality was we were colluding to see what would happen and setup a favorable scenario. But again, prove it.

You don't have to like it, but Intentional Draws/convenient Concessions will happen whether you are aware/want them to or not.

This does not violate Tournament Integrity as long as all players are aware of the possibility and act accordingly. Again, you don't have to like it, just like you don't have to like that large ships give up half points and the K-Wing doesn't or that the TLT is overly efficient. But you do have to live with it.

I don't understand your viewpoint.

What would you prefer? That both players, realizing that a Draw is in their best interests castle their ships and sit there for 75 mins so you can come over and declare the match a draw instead?

The reality is if two players know the rules and that a draw would benefit them, you cannot force them to play optimally. So why try to? I think FFG has taken a very practical approach here.

No, you can't force players to play X-Wing normally. But the tournament rules allow TOs to disqualify anyone based on unsporting conduct. You don't want to play your next match? Fine. Go home and don't come back. I won't force anyone to play a game they clearly don't want to play. That game is called X-Wing, not "tournament points". If you want to play "actually don'y play X-Wing in order to rig the tournament points system to improve chances of winning trinkets" by all means do that on your own time. Not in an X-Wing tournament. If you're not there to play X-Wing, you've lost the plot.

I don't understand your viewpoint.

What would you prefer? That both players, realizing that a Draw is in their best interests castle their ships and sit there for 75 mins so you can come over and declare the match a draw instead?

The reality is if two players know the rules and that a draw would benefit them, you cannot force them to play optimally. So why try to? I think FFG has taken a very practical approach here.

No, you can't force players to play X-Wing normally. But the tournament rules allow TOs to disqualify anyone based on unsporting conduct. You don't want to play your next match? Fine. Go home and don't come back. I won't force anyone to play a game they clearly don't want to play. That game is called X-Wing, not "tournament points". If you want to play "actually don'y play X-Wing in order to rig the tournament points system to improve chances of winning trinkets" by all means do that on your own time. Not in an X-Wing tournament. If you're not there to play X-Wing, GTFO because you've lost the plot.

Ummm - bringing a strong tier 1 list is just that - trying to win so you can bring home the trinkets.

I would never play in a tournament you TO - you're not reasonable and won't follow the rules properly or at least you're making it seem that way from your posts on this topic.

Is it unsporting conduct to bring the quad tlt unhinged thugs to a tournament? or any other winning combo?

They are here to play X wing and are playing to do well or win. Sometimes that means "running away with your ships" to win the game. Is that unsporting conduct according to you cause you clearly are trying to fly away and not shoot or be shot at?

Chill out.....if its in the rules and you TO, follow them. You run the risk of being reported to FFG if you don't and could be banned from being a TO too. You can't prove anything either way so you have to decide in favour of the rules as written.

I don't understand your viewpoint.

What would you prefer? That both players, realizing that a Draw is in their best interests castle their ships and sit there for 75 mins so you can come over and declare the match a draw instead?

The reality is if two players know the rules and that a draw would benefit them, you cannot force them to play optimally. So why try to? I think FFG has taken a very practical approach here.

No, you can't force players to play X-Wing normally. But the tournament rules allow TOs to disqualify anyone based on unsporting conduct. You don't want to play your next match? Fine. Go home and don't come back. I won't force anyone to play a game they clearly don't want to play. That game is called X-Wing, not "tournament points". If you want to play "actually don'y play X-Wing in order to rig the tournament points system to improve chances of winning trinkets" by all means do that on your own time. Not in an X-Wing tournament. If you're not there to play X-Wing, you've lost the plot.

How can you differentiate that from 2 people who legitimately want to castle? This legitimately happens.

How can you know that a player is trying to "rig" something and didn't simply make a mistake? This legitimately happens.

I never said they didn't want to play. They just don't want to hinder themselves by doing so.

I think you are letting the fact that FFG, like many other companies, legitimized Intentional Draws cloud the fact that draws and concessions happened already for very legitimate reasons, none of which are against the rules. Show me proof that I am being unsporting if I decide not to fire on an opponent's ship. Or if I decide to move to Range 1 of three of my opponent's ships.

See, I would quibble that if you are at an X-Wing Tournament, you are there to win said tournament. Why should I be forced to make a move that would hurt my ability to win? I shouldn't, and if you prefer the ruse, I don't have to be whether you like it or not.

The name of the game is to be the last one standing at a tournament. I don't go to a tournament if I have no intention of trying to win it. I can play X-Wing anywhere. I can only win an X-Wing tournament at... an X-Wing tournament.

If you want to play X-Wing, you can do that on your own time. See how easily that turns around?

Dave, as I said go ask FFG for additional clarification. I'll bet you $50 that they come back with something along the lines of "Yes, players can ID as a means to ensure they can make the Top Cut, we do not consider doing so a violation of the event rules". Because again, that is the only purpose introducing an ID rule can serve. And while FFG makes some odd OP choices from time to time I'm at least $50 sure they didn't add a rule that serves no purpose.

I don't understand your viewpoint.

What would you prefer? That both players, realizing that a Draw is in their best interests castle their ships and sit there for 75 mins so you can come over and declare the match a draw instead?

The reality is if two players know the rules and that a draw would benefit them, you cannot force them to play optimally. So why try to? I think FFG has taken a very practical approach here.

No, you can't force players to play X-Wing normally. But the tournament rules allow TOs to disqualify anyone based on unsporting conduct. You don't want to play your next match? Fine. Go home and don't come back. I won't force anyone to play a game they clearly don't want to play. That game is called X-Wing, not "tournament points". If you want to play "actually don'y play X-Wing in order to rig the tournament points system to improve chances of winning trinkets" by all means do that on your own time. Not in an X-Wing tournament. If you're not there to play X-Wing, you've lost the plot.

If you're in a tournament the goal is to win said tournament otherwise why play in it? You'd be better served getting people together for free play than having a competitive environment. I get that you disagree with the rule but what makes this rule any different from any other game? Is it because its miniatures or do you not understand tournaments and how they function?

A tournament is meant to be won and one of the reasons people play in them is to try to win. However, you can't win if you didn't make the cut. So how is it wrong (especially when the rules permit it) to draw with your opponent so you both make the cut? Simple answer it's not wrong. Suck it up and follow the rules or go home. If a TO pulls a stunt like dqing two people for following the floor rules I hope they lose the right to host any other FFG event ever. A refusal to follow the rules set down by FFG for x-wing to me shows a disregard for fair play and doesn't deserve to host any tournament for any game produced by FFG.

I don't care what you want to call it, but there is no reason for FFG to give players the ability to Intentional Draw with each other if they are not intending for them to do so in a situation where an draw would be in both players interest, while playing the game out wouldn't be. They are explicitly allowing a limited ability to manipulate the standings by offering one option for players to contrive a match result. There is no other purpose to this rule if that isn't what it is intended to do.

They are litterally adopting MTG standards on the subject.

So in the last round of swiss if two players realize that they have both gotten enough wins to possibly advance, they can both agree to call thier game a draw to ensure they both advance as opposed to leaving the losing player at the mercy of tiebreakers.

Ya, this is a terrible idea on their part. They basically leave it all up to the T.O. to stop any nefarious use of this, but the average store championship T.O. etc. can barely get pairings correct.

What do you mean by "nefarious use of this"? All I'm hearing is how it's totally fine to agree to intentionally draw for any reason.

You can fix tournament scores with it, and that's fine. You can avoid playing a whole round of Swiss (rather than faking it) and still advance, and that's fine too.

As long as you pretend to have come up with the idea to intentionally draw after you call the TO over to your table, what's the problem? It's all allowed. There's no point having a rule against collusion because it's going to happen anyway. If it doesn't happen by a verbal agreement before a match, it'll happen with an unspoken understanding at the top table in the final round of Swiss.

What could be wrong with any of that? It's fine.

No, you can't force players to play X-Wing normally. But the tournament rules allow TOs to disqualify anyone based on unsporting conduct. You don't want to play your next match? Fine. Go home and don't come back. I won't force anyone to play a game they clearly don't want to play. That game is called X-Wing, not "tournament points". If you want to play "actually don'y play X-Wing in order to rig the tournament points system to improve chances of winning trinkets" by all means do that on your own time. Not in an X-Wing tournament. If you're not there to play X-Wing, you've lost the plot.

Your argument here makes no sense. The majority of people go to tournaments to WIN. You win through points.

If it comes to a point where an ID would get two players into the final cut, why would they waste their time for 75 minutes of having them move their ships around the edge of the board without engaging each other the entire time? Why would either player "play" when it would cause risk for one of them to not end up in the final cut? They aren't choosing the ID because they "don't want to play", but because they want to keep playing in the final cut. The "trinkets" are just side bonuses. ID's don't exist for manipulation or collusion, but for common sense.

Yes yes, FFG is totally going to "punish" a TO for not following the implied legal scoring manipulation rules. How? Deny the store a prize kit? Oh darn, could be that the store will have to start offering a few actual prices for the cost of admission instead.

Maybe the TOs that don't like this ambiguous ruling would much rather not have a bunch of boring WAAC players at their tournaments anyways...

Yes yes, FFG is totally going to "punish" a TO for not following the implied legal scoring manipulation rules. How? Deny the store a prize kit? Oh darn, could be that the store will have to start offering a few actual prices for the cost of admission instead.

Maybe the TOs that don't like this ambiguous ruling would much rather not have a bunch of boring WAAC players at their tournaments anyways...

Store tournament kits aren't a huge deal but being unable to run store championships for the wh40k card game, Star Wars, Netrunner, armada, and x-wing would seriously hurt that stores bottom line.