How do you nicely tell a player who apparently only looses to me because of bad dice and not as a result of my experice of playing the game since wave three or flying my ships well, that he needs to fly better and not blame the dice?

Yeah, this is always an awkward situation. It's happened to me a couple times, and I just say "sometimes dice will go your way, and sometimes they won't, it's too bad they didn't go your way this game." and I leave it at that. If a person is ready to blame their bad dice, or your good dice, they're likely not going to be open to a discussion on tactics. So in those cases, I thank them for the game, and move on to the next one.

How do you nicely tell a player who apparently only looses to me because of bad dice and not as a result of my experice of playing the game since wave three or flying my ships well, that he needs to fly better and not blame the dice?

Point him at the mynock squadron podcast episode that talks about that

Or send them my way. I am not shy about telling it like it is

Blunt and the often...

Now if only I could take my own advice and "get good"

Kris

How do you nicely tell a player who apparently only looses to me because of bad dice and not as a result of my experice of playing the game since wave three or flying my ships well, that he needs to fly better and not blame the dice?

I actually talk about about this off mic with the guys from the show, but it is one reason we point to for Paul being a three time World Champion. Is is not just dice, otherwise someone else would have out rolled him by now. This si a game of skill. Now, dice are a part of the game, true enough, and on occasion they can be a huge factor in a win or a loss. However I have found that the skill in the game is the flying, and being in the right position to shot or not be shot at, and this helps to mitigate those dice rolls. In short, a good player is able not allow the dice to decide the game, but rather their position on the board.

How do you nicely tell a player who apparently only looses to me because of bad dice and not as a result of my experice of playing the game since wave three or flying my ships well, that he needs to fly better and not blame the dice?

That is tricky. I'm no super player, but I have certainly been in games where you see right away that your newer opponent has brought a sorta clunky build and will have his work cut out for him, and a few bad rolls get used to explain what really was a fairly inevitible loss. I try to just keep encouraging him to play, play, play and work on finding ships you enjoy flying and the wins will come!

It was sort of sad to hear MJs comments about more players entering from other games with a different attitude and then to read what happened to him in his recent store championship.

Comments about KO new store make me think of the Team Covenant retail store. It has the exact vibe you are talking about. They sell stuff, but the visual impact when you walk in is that they play games.

Comments about KO new store make me think of the Team Covenant retail store. It has the exact vibe you are talking about. They sell stuff, but the visual impact when you walk in is that they play games.

Yeah, I have heard that the TC store is amazing! Its on my bucket list!

Finally getting around to finishing this episode. I am glad I came back to it. As I was listening to it, I realized that a lot of the rationalizations that happen around the Fly Casual mantra is like a lot of the discourses and diatribes around the Morality mechanic in the Force and Destiny forums. Hothie, you take all of this to the next level. After reading a lot of the other topics that cover this and then hearing you distill it down to the simple "it's not about winning or losing" and then explaining it was powerful. There are still going to be people that will never understand that, and I'm ok with it, but I love that the concept is important enough to most people in the community that this keeps coming up over and over again. Keep being an Ambassador, Sir Doug Kinney... and just for the record, I still miss your blog-style posts.

Finally getting around to finishing this episode. I am glad I came back to it. As I was listening to it, I realized that a lot of the rationalizations that happen around the Fly Casual mantra is like a lot of the discourses and diatribes around the Morality mechanic in the Force and Destiny forums. Hothie, you take all of this to the next level. After reading a lot of the other topics that cover this and then hearing you distill it down to the simple "it's not about winning or losing" and then explaining it was powerful. There are still going to be people that will never understand that, and I'm ok with it, but I love that the concept is important enough to most people in the community that this keeps coming up over and over again. Keep being an Ambassador, Sir Doug Kinney... and just for the record, I still miss your blog-style posts.

Doug is like our Yoda... and his wisdom and power in the Force is great!

Finally getting around to finishing this episode. I am glad I came back to it. As I was listening to it, I realized that a lot of the rationalizations that happen around the Fly Casual mantra is like a lot of the discourses and diatribes around the Morality mechanic in the Force and Destiny forums. Hothie, you take all of this to the next level. After reading a lot of the other topics that cover this and then hearing you distill it down to the simple "it's not about winning or losing" and then explaining it was powerful. There are still going to be people that will never understand that, and I'm ok with it, but I love that the concept is important enough to most people in the community that this keeps coming up over and over again. Keep being an Ambassador, Sir Doug Kinney... and just for the record, I still miss your blog-style posts.

Doug is like our Yoda... and his wisdom and power in the Force is great!

*envisions a new commercial in Yoda voice*

Dice not make one great!

Thanks for the kind words. I miss posting as well. I'll probably do a write up after the CAC tourney, though.

Finally getting around to finishing this episode. I am glad I came back to it. As I was listening to it, I realized that a lot of the rationalizations that happen around the Fly Casual mantra is like a lot of the discourses and diatribes around the Morality mechanic in the Force and Destiny forums. Hothie, you take all of this to the next level. After reading a lot of the other topics that cover this and then hearing you distill it down to the simple "it's not about winning or losing" and then explaining it was powerful. There are still going to be people that will never understand that, and I'm ok with it, but I love that the concept is important enough to most people in the community that this keeps coming up over and over again. Keep being an Ambassador, Sir Doug Kinney... and just for the record, I still miss your blog-style posts.

Doug is like our Yoda... and his wisdom and power in the Force is great!

*envisions a new commercial in Yoda voice*

Dice not make one great!

Thanks for the kind words. I miss posting as well. I'll probably do a write up after the CAC tourney, though.

Looking forward to reading that one Doug!

Ask, and receive, you shall.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206677-coralville-cac-tournament/

Oh good! Somewhere I can talk about it without interrupting the flow of your narrative! I love the narrative aspect of this post. Looking forward to Howlrunner meeting the rest of the "Veterans" and seeing who is getting involved. If you are able to do it and showcase the fights they are in, it will be a very long and interesting read. If it is only for the leadup to the showdown, I'm ok with that too. Wish you guys weren't 12+ hours north of me... it would be fun to go to an event with this kind of lead-in. Maybe one of these days... and soon... right after the student loans are paid off next year!

Oh good! Somewhere I can talk about it without interrupting the flow of your narrative! I love the narrative aspect of this post. Looking forward to Howlrunner meeting the rest of the "Veterans" and seeing who is getting involved. If you are able to do it and showcase the fights they are in, it will be a very long and interesting read. If it is only for the leadup to the showdown, I'm ok with that too. Wish you guys weren't 12+ hours north of me... it would be fun to go to an event with this kind of lead-in. Maybe one of these days... and soon... right after the student loans are paid off next year!

If I can get any practice time in before the tourney, i will include those games as the squad feeling each other out. But I have to introduce the characters first.

Honestly the thing I'm most looking forward to is facing a Fel/Vader/palpatine list. that will be a killer narrative to write, and I already have in mind how I want to approach it.

Yeah, I am a huge fan of the idea of a Narrative story to accompany the game. Looking forward to reading this Doug!

I am massively split on how I feel but figured I should probably share my thoughts anyway.

Firstly, I should open with how listening to Doug and a bit of a chat with Ed and Sean helped get me over a bit of an X-Wing slump I was in. I am naturally a competitive player once I get in to a game, although I enjoy challenging myself; so don't always fly the lists that everyone else is flying.

Deep down, I also feel that that gives me an out if I don't perform, I can always look at the improvements I could make in the list building phase and say that was why I lost; it removed some of the pressure I place on myself by appearing on the Podcast.

For those of you who did not pick up on Sean's not so subtle hints, behind closed doors (and in public on stream) I have made some statements about Fly Causal being dead, and deservedly so...

I say that tongue in cheek, as competitive as I am, I think of myself as being a good guy and fun to play against. (recently this has been more of a struggle but that has been due to my issues not the game)

I have played in many events for many game systems and pride myself on my sportsmanship scores. My proudest achievement in war gaming was winning a Warhammer Throne of Skulls best Orc and Goblin general with nothing but Goblins; as I won it in no small part due to my sportsmanship scores. I was the only player to beat the overall winner of the event and with some if, buts, and maybes, it could have been me. However the point is that if I crushed my opponent or was crushed by them, it had no bearing on the enjoyment we both took in the game.

I strive to take this attitude in to my X-Wing games and will prompt my opponent to do the optimal action, when I see they may be missing it. I also echo what was said by most on the show, I always own my own mistakes. I have lost count of the numbers of times I have spoken about a mistake costing me the game.

Off the top of my head, not checking Echo's dial before de-cloaking, dialing in the move I had just told my opponent would not fit so I would not do that one, forgetting to de-cloak Echo all spring to mind. For example when I forgot to De-Cloak Echo, the only change in game state is that I had declared that I was moving my Palp Shuttle. As I flipped the dial I said, "oh, I forgot the timing for the de-cloak. Well I guess I will never learn." Some people may have said, do you mind, nothing has been moved, does it really matter?

In my eyes it does.

There is a social contract between gamers when we play games.

In a pick up game, if you want to play a fun game with "soft" lists you may mention it to your opponent and they may tone down their squad as you are both looking for a fun game.

In a tournament the social contract is inherently skewed to the competitive end of the spectrum. This means that if you take a soft list and get crushed, that is something you have to own. If you are a new player and don't know better, I will discuss with you during and after the game things you can do differently both in the List Building phase and on the table. I will do my up most to ensure you enjoy the game but ultimately, it is not my fault you took a bad list.

Moving on to the interpretation of Fly Casual that is used for game states, and people forgetting tokens and that stuff.

As part of the Social Contract of entering a competitive Event you (in my opinion) have agreed that you want to play in an event where the best player on the day wins.

That seems like a simple assumption to me, nothing overly complex. The best player on the day wins.

I am going to name names in an example that was used on the show, which I would not normal do but I hope that it will help emphasize my point of view.

Sean gave the example of when James McDonald played Paul Heaver and let him change his move to avoid flying off the table.

Sean lauded this as the best moment of X-Wing he had seen, James wanting to beat Paul fair and square.

​I fully understand why we have lauded that action but I would like to present an alternate point of view.

Paul flies his ship off the table and then loses because he made a mistake, James flew better as he made less mistakes. That did not happen, Paul got a take back so the mistake could not be punished.

When Paul saw that James had dialed in a move that was going to give James no shot but let Paul have a shot did he tell James to change it?

Of course not that is a stupid preposition.

When Paul saw James make a sub optimal choice when declaring an action or selecting a target did he stop him and explain why another option would be better?

Of course not!

Paul quite rightly let James make these mistakes and punished him for them.

Does that make Paul Heaver, 3 time World Champion a Win At All Cost Player?

Heck No, the guy makes Pew Pew noises when he is flying his ships, is one of the nicest people I have had the pleasure to talk to about not only this game but any of the games he has a knowledge of.

I am going to have to repeat this as this is the internet and things easily get taken out of context when there is no tone.

I am NOT saying Paul Heaver did anything wrong, he is not a WAAC player.

What I am trying to say is that, James should not have let Paul have the Take Back.

It was a noble gesture but you can only beat what is in front of you and if you both fly perfectly and have matched up evenly in the list building phase than the Dice will decide the game. The game is most often won by the player who makes the least mistakes, be they big or small.

At what level of mistake do you draw the line?

This is why I say (again tongue in cheek) Fly Casual needs to die.

When I say Fly Casual is dead, a chorus of Long live Fly Casual normally follows in my head. The Fly Casual attitude is a great thing to have in the game but don't let that interfer with who wins an event.

I much prefer "Don't be a D**K" but that does not look as good on a T-Shirt

I also have a point to make in defense of competitive players, that ties back to the social contract I was talking about.

Whilst a Fluff Bunny player may complain about having to play against a Competitive Player, the Competitive Player has a perfectly valid complaint about having to play a Fluff Bunny. Neither Player got what they wanted out of the game.

So remember folks, talk to the person opposite you on the table, make a friend, play a game, don't be a d**k and perform to the best of your ability. That way you both may just have a good time!

If you made it this far I am sorry...

Thanks

Kris

P.S. I did not proof read this so it is a first draft and probably quite disjointed but I wanted to share my perspective, as I missed the show.

Ask, and receive, you shall.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206677-coralville-cac-tournament/

Bookmarked!

This is why I say (again tongue in cheek) Fly Casual needs to die.

I will throw in my agreement, with the caveat that the Co-Opted Twisted Version of Fly Casual must die. I spieled about it at length on our recent show, also with much the same trepidation. I stated that I'm perplexed that people get livid when (under the guise of this motto) their opponent declines to break the rules.

However, hearing Doug define Fly Casual as being kind to your opponents and treating them well, I think the concept (if not the motto as twisted by many) maintains perhaps even greater value as X-Wing continues to explode.

This is why I say (again tongue in cheek) Fly Casual needs to die.

I will throw in my agreement, with the caveat that the Co-Opted Twisted Version of Fly Casual must die. I spieled about it at length on our recent show, also with much the same trepidation. I stated that I'm perplexed that people get livid when (under the guise of this motto) their opponent declines to break the rules.

However, hearing Doug define Fly Casual as being kind to your opponents and treating them well, I think the concept (if not the motto as twisted by many) maintains perhaps even greater value as X-Wing continues to explode.

Personally I think that Doug discussing that Fly Casual doesn't mean allowing your opponent to fly sloppy and that it is more then just winning and losing the game were the high points for me.

at a local tournament last weekend my opponents Fat Han was stressed and had the crit that turned his hard turns red, and was facing the board edge. his only move was to hard 1 to stay on the board. i looked at him, he looked at me, we both looked at the stress, we both looked at the crit, and he then proceeded to not hard turn and fly his ship off the board.

this was (i believe) his 6th or 8th game flying. up until this point he'd done a great job at piloting, but forgot that he was stressed, and forgot that he had the crit. i did not tell him to fly off the board, only that he can not as per the rules make that hard turn. he knew where he made the mistake ( a turn before he could have landed on a rock to be facing more towards the inner map) and took it as a learning experience, sometimes is preferable to the alternative. Always plan ahead.

This is a few weeks old now, but I wanted to commend Doug Kinney on what he said in this episode. It's refreshing to hear someone talking about putting community relationships above winning. Doug, I will never fly your ships off the board and if I run into you, owe you a beer (or other tasty beverage).