You know that demolitionist talent that lets them aim their explosives to avoid certain people of their choosing from the blast? Selective Detonation?

Well, my demolitionist player reckons this talent should allow him to go as far as to plant charges on the party's astromech droid, send the droid into the enemy, and trigger the explosive, with the blast being set as "directional" away from the droid itself.

This tactic will be used and reused again if allowed, but what do you guys think?

He seems to think such directional explosives even if affixed to a friendly are plausible.

Do I allow it with a mechanics check to affix as normal but with failures being damage to the droid/user instead, threat being being additional GM chosen targets in range of the premature blast and despair being crits to all in range? Something like that?

That's the kinda Munchkin **** one of my old players always tried to pull off.

Personally I would say hell no.

In my narrative the Selective Detonation would incorporate something like the choosen allies being able to duck / hunker down / scurry to cover as soon as the Demolitionist screamed "FIRE IN THE HOLE!"

Or something like that.

Now if it's actually directional explosives, as in something like claymore mines, I would still be on edge about it, and if I'd allow it, the droid would definitely be affected by the blast with sufficient Failure/Threat/Despair.

I would just say no. While it is true a directional explosive will only have the Explosive force sent out in MAJORITY of the selected direction, it is because the energy, like all energy will follow the path of least resistance. However Newton's laws will still hold, namely his 3rd law "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

So say there was a d25 explosive that he had elected to shape so that it was a 60 degree cone, there will be an equal amount of force generated back towards the point source. While in most cases this is not worth worrying about (like the hardened steel plate on the back side of a Claymore mine), a droid is significantly more fragile then a simple steel block. Also the droid will be pushed back as they are not anchored (like a claymore would be), this would likely cause the droid to fly back some and possibly clip the party anyhow.

That's rule lawyering imo and no way I'd allow it. It's about using their skills in helping others avoid the Blast effect. If the bomb is connected to them, they're taking the primary hit, never mind the Blast effect.

I'll add my voice to the choruses of "Aw, hell no!" on this.

The intent of the talent is that the character has either set a charge at a location or is hurling an explosive device at a specific target, and that they are skilled enough to ensure that a small number of friendlies don't get caught in the blast zone.

Placing an explosive device on a specific individual, thus putting that individual at Ground Zero of the boom, would pretty much exclude them being able to benefit from the Demolitionist's Selective Detonation.

Oh hell no. What the book says does not override common sense. And common sense says that strapping a bomb to your droid means that you have a 5,000 credit, one-use bomb delivery system.

Oh hell no. What the book says does not override common sense. And common sense says that strapping a bomb to your droid means that you have a 5,000 credit, one-use bomb delivery system.

But if he wants to sink a lot of credits into MSE droids....

Just strapping some explosives and pointing them away? Nah. But if he wants to go through the trouble of building a Typhoon Explosive System (which uses small shaped charges to propel delayed detonation mini-explosives), then I would work with him. It would be pricey and use up one of the droid's cybernetic augment limit, and I'd probably make it Limited Ammo 1 on top of that.

I was gonna say, tell the player to strap a bunch of Claymore mines onto their body, and then walk into a room. Detonate those, and then tell us how well that worked out.

But I see that I’m not the first to make that reference.

Oh hell no. What the book says does not override common sense. And common sense says that strapping a bomb to your droid means that you have a 5,000 credit, one-use bomb delivery system.

But if he wants to sink a lot of credits into MSE droids....

You know, if the players choose to allocate their resources in this manner, I wont stop them. Well, beyond the mountains of conflict that I'd throw any force sensitive, for repeatedly sending sentient beings on a kamikaze mission. . . .

Hah, you're right, he is King of the Munchkin folk. He is very proud of the fact. Lots of player types in a normal party set up of course, this being a common one.

Interesting that players have had to figure interpretations of how the talent works, because FFG have not put a lot of info there. Some people think it's the demo guy shouting to his party to move. Others (including my player) think it's the shape of the charge. I must admit, I figured it as being a shaped charge too.

Really interesting useful replies guys. I will take this to my player, especially the possibility for consequences, such as getting blasted backwards and such. If acting like a claymore, sending the droid backwards, will that backing on explosive likely do the droid damage too, or just propel it, d'you think?

Really interesting useful replies guys. I will take this to my player, especially the possibility for consequences, such as getting blasted backwards and such. If acting like a claymore, sending the droid backwards, will that backing on explosive likely do the droid damage too, or just propel it, d'you think?

Look at what happens when you fire a bullet. The same amount of force from an explosive applied to a small lightweight object causes it to move very rapidly. But then there is this thing called recoil.

Now, imagine enough force being applied with an explosive to cause large numbers of small-ish projectiles called “shrapnel” to be propelled at high speed in a certain cone-shaped radius of damage. But that same amount of force is also going to be applied to the plate, in the opposite direction.

So, now that plate effectively becomes a projectile, too. Granted, it is much larger and slower moving, but it has the same amount of kinetic energy behind that mass.

So, how much damage does that kinetic energy do as shrapnel to the target? And how much damage would be done by that same amount of kinetic energy applied to a large heavy metal plate?

If you are literally an M1A1 Abrams tank, you can have reactive armor that basically does the same sort of thing as a claymore mine, but on a smaller scale that is designed to disrupt munitions that are trying to breach the armor of the tank.

But if you’re not an M1A1 Abrams tank, just how much damage can you sustain from an impact like that, before you get so heavily damaged that you are no longer functional?

Hah, you're right, he is King of the Munchkin folk. He is very proud of the fact. Lots of player types in a normal party set up of course, this being a common one.

Interesting that players have had to figure interpretations of how the talent works, because FFG have not put a lot of info there. Some people think it's the demo guy shouting to his party to move. Others (including my player) think it's the shape of the charge. I must admit, I figured it as being a shaped charge too.

Really interesting useful replies guys. I will take this to my player, especially the possibility for consequences, such as getting blasted backwards and such. If acting like a claymore, sending the droid backwards, will that backing on explosive likely do the droid damage too, or just propel it, d'you think?

I can assure you from first hand experience, if you are standing behind a claymore when it goes off, the technical description is 'you're f*cked'.

There's also a difference between a shaped charged and tamping explosives. A shaped charge is a HEAT round. Tamping is what a demolitionist does to jury rig focusing or magnify a blast effect.

I can assure you from first hand experience, if you are standing behind a claymore when it goes off, the technical description is ‘what pieces are left of your body are f*cked’.

There, fixed that for you.

Claymore detonation.

Interesting that players have had to figure interpretations of how the talent works, because FFG have not put a lot of info there. Some people think it's the demo guy shouting to his party to move. Others (including my player) think it's the shape of the charge. I must admit, I figured it as being a shaped charge too.

This is fully intentional on FFG's part.

They want to leave it open to the players how talents work from a narrative description, thus freeing them up to create their own fun/awesome descriptions for how certain things work.

For everyone arguing that the physics are "impossible" remember this is Star Wars. We have lightsabers where a shaft of energy is held with a set length. It's not at all hard for me to believe that the tech can be used to create a "safe origin" directional explosion too.

Having some knowledge of real-world directional explosive charges, I will also join the "HEEEEEEEEEEELL NO!" camp. Directional charges will project the majority of their energy in one direction. That doesn't mean there is no energy released in any other direction.

Just because it is a fantastic universe doesn't mean we have to abandon common sense and accept ideas that disrupt our suspension of disbelief.

My suspension of disbelief allows for SW tech to accomplish a great many things. Of course, with this being a Talent, it's more a combination of ability and luck than techno-wizardry (since another user of the explosive wouldn't get th same effect), and in SW the space opera nature of the setting can allow almost anything (like heated and pressurized atmosphere inside vacuum-dwelling giant slugs).

Hang on a minute, im definitley in the "HELL NO" camp, but theres a rules reason this wont work. The Time to Go talent allows a character to perform a Move maneuver as an incidental to escape the blast range... if those explosives are strapped to the droid then performing a Move maneuver is just going to relocate the charges, not get him away from them.

OH HELL NO!

That's rule lawyering imo and no way I'd allow it. It's about using their skills in helping others avoid the Blast effect. If the bomb is connected to them, they're taking the primary hit, never mind the Blast effect.

I don't often agree with 2P51 but he is spot on right about this... if the demolitionist is affixing the bomb to the Droid, the Droid is the PRIMARY target.

If the wants to avoid BLAST damage that is fine, BUT since he used the mechanics check to successfully set the explosives, the Droid is taking the primary attack hit.

Hang on a minute, im definitley in the "HELL NO" camp, but theres a rules reason this wont work. The Time to Go talent allows a character to perform a Move maneuver as an incidental to escape the blast range... if those explosives are strapped to the droid then performing a Move maneuver is just going to relocate the charges, not get him away from them.

The talent in question is Selective Detonation.

Hang on a minute, im definitley in the "HELL NO" camp, but theres a rules reason this wont work. The Time to Go talent allows a character to perform a Move maneuver as an incidental to escape the blast range... if those explosives are strapped to the droid then performing a Move maneuver is just going to relocate the charges, not get him away from them.

The talent in question is Selective Detonation.

whoops! yeah I'm with you there then HappyDaze, does that Droid want to to risk not rolling an Advantage? but the problem i see is that in the example of strapping an explosive to the droid i think the droid should be the one making the combat check. sure the Demolitionist strapped them on well, but the droid actually has to point them in the right direction and get within range.

The solution i would go with?

1. When attacking with a Blast weapon only the primary target is normally hit unless advantage is spent to activate blast, so if blast isn't activated then technically it could be done...(As others have said though here the droid should be making the attack or be forced to be the Primary Target)
2. If you do allow it though the Demolitionist is attacking an engaged target, thats an upgraded check with Despair automatically hitting the PC with the primary hit, i would not allow Selective Detonation to protect the target against that since the blast quality wasn't activated yet.
3. If the attack did hit, and 2 advantage where spent to activate blast then sure spend another advantage to protect your buddy

But there are a lot of risks there, risk of despair, 3 advantage required, not sure if i was playing a Droid PC that id be ok with that! and if the Demolitionist got themselves a pet droid for the task then those things don't come cheap.

The Talent only works if he hurls the explosiv, if he attaches it to a Droid the droid is the one hurling it.

Otherwise he could just take a grenade from his belt, call to activate the talent and than hand it over to his smuggler pal hoe has a better in lightranged skill an let him hurl while calling wich persons are not hit... would be very fishy...

I may just be agreeing with what others have said...

If he wants to try it, warn him, then let him. His droid would be propelled backwards with great force and his brain dome would be crushed. Not sure how to implement that with the dice results in-game but I don't think it should happen only on a Despair. It should always happen.

I have personally set off directional claymore mines. I've been in a hole with one right out in front of me as I set it off. I've felt the backwards force go over my head including hunks of dirt, gravel, shrapnel? But, I didn't stand up to see what kind of injuries I would have received catching the reverse force in my face at around 5 feet distance. Even if that was survivable, it was 5 feet not strapped to my head. This was always a joke and never actually intended:

Note on the fireball pictures above of a claymore. That's not what I recall seeing. I don't recall seeing a big ball of fire. But, I always ducked so who knows. That ball of fire makes me think some sort of fuel was added, perhaps in the trailer? But, again, I ducked and the explosion was instantaneous not freeze-framed for me. I have seen grenades go off repeatedly which are pretty much the same thing as a claymore (less shrapnel, non-directional) and I never once saw even a little bit of fire. Fireballs are for movies, D&D, and incendiary grenades.

EDIT: I stand corrected. I found the original video of those screenshots (see below). If you watch the video the blast of fire is so quick you barely notice it so it explains what I saw (or didn't see) when setting these off myself. Only when it is slowed down or screenshotted do you see the blast of fire.

It looks much more evil slowed down or freeze framed. If I had seen that video first I may have went completely prone in my hole instead of just squatting and trying to get a peak.

This is more what I saw and not as scary: