Dial upgrade? Should Dial factions match Pilot Card/Ship tile faction in Formal events?

By Marinealver, in X-Wing

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Okay so when Scum came out in Wave 6 it introduced a 3rd faction and cross faction ships. Now at first it was stated in competitive matches the dial, pilot card, and ship tile had to match, which was widely unpopular because the only way to run 4 ScumHawks is to get 4 $40 Most Wanted sets along with 4 $15 HWK-290 expansions, which would have a considerable price tag. Not to mention other things such as running 3 ScumWings or 4 Z-95 Headhunters would have been complicated. Needless to say FFG droped the decision on the dials matching the faction (and rightfully so) and ruled they only have to match the ship instead.

However with the dial upgrade kit now running 4 Scum HWKs will be doped down from 4 Most wanted sets and 4 HWK-290 to 4 HWK-290 and 2 Most Wanted sets saving $30.

So with dial upgrades kits coming up again do you think FFG might try to bring back the dial faction requirement for formal or premier tournaments? Also do you think that would be a good, or a bad idea and please state why it would support or oppose such a decision.

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Man. This made my head hurt. Totally confused.

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I think that the original rule was fine, and that waffling on it was a bad precedent.

Rewaffling now would be even worse.

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Dial Upgrades should be matching at tournaments for sure. Stand by for some new FAQ and rules pdf's to download soon.

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So with dial upgrades kits coming up again do you think FFG might try to bring back the dial faction requirement for formal or premier tournaments? Also do you think that would be a good, or a bad idea and please state why it would support or oppose such a decision.

NO!

It would be a terrible idea. Why? You're right back to all of the reasons it was a terrible idea to start with.

Edit: If you want to do that are you going to require that EVERYONE uses those upgrade kits? While they are at it they had better make darn sure to require everyone to use the damage decks from the Force Awakens starter.

Edited by StevenO
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Man. This made my head hurt. Totally confused.

Sorry so to simplify it. Some ships such as HWK-290 are dual faction. Now the ship model only comes in the Wave 3 HWK-290 expansion which is the rebel only. To get the S&V faction HWK-290 you will need to get a Most wanted pack which does not have the ship model only conversion parts (dial, ship tile, pilot card).

So at first the dial faction had to match the pilot/ship faction. If you had 2 HWK-290 expansion packs and 1 Most wanted pack you would have 4 pilot cards for the S&V hwk-290 and 2 tiles for the S&V hwk-290, enough to set up 2 models. But while you may have 3 ship dials for the HWK-290 only 1 of them would be for the S&V faction as the other two are rebels.

The FAQ before the release of wave 6 said that for competitive tournaments the faction of the dial had to match the faction of the ship so you would only have enough components to make 1 S&V HWK-290. Shortly after that FAQ and before the release of Wave 6 that ruling was reversed and you could have 2 S&V HWK-290s without having to buy a 2nd Most Wanted pack.

So the question is would it be better to instead of buying a 2nd most wanted pack have players by a dial upgrade kit to change one of the rebel HWK-290 dials to a S&V HWK-290 as an option instead, or just maintain the status quo?

Edited by Marinealver
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I read it as I can use a dial of the ship from different factions. As in I play scum boba and 2 y's. 1 scum y and one rebel y with scum cards. I just say a scum literally just stole the rebel y. I have never had anyone say I can't play it. ???

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Yes. It's completely inexcusable that a player has 2 dials for the same ship of different colors. Never mind that it might actually be easier to tell them apart like this; it displeases me!

While we're at it, what's with all the bad paint jobs on Z95s? I've seen people playing with both Tala Squadrons AND Black Sun Soldiers in the SAME list. What's incredibly offensive though is half the time they're neither and its a N'Dru that they've neglected to paint with the shark teeth or even a Nashtah Pup that's completely wrong.

We really need to put a stop to people using functionally identical components practically and must instead put a higher barrier to entry to the game in order to appease impractical uniformity. :rolleyes:

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I think that the original rule was fine, and that waffling on it was a bad precedent.Rewaffling now would be even worse.

What is with people and seeing coming to reason and changing one's position on something as a bad thing? Stubbornness is not a virtue.

OP, no reason to change it back now. Same problem as before, except now you have the option of only being forced into a needless $10 purchase instead of a $40 one just to please some anal retentive neckbeard.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer
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I read it as I can use a dial of the ship from different factions. As in I play scum boba and 2 y's. 1 scum y and one rebel y with scum cards. I just say a scum literally just stole the rebel y. I have never had anyone say I can't play it. ???

I think that the original rule was fine, and that waffling on it was a bad precedent.Rewaffling now would be even worse.

The original rule was not fine. Forcing people to buy extra Most Wanted sets because the color of the dials were wrong was stupid.

What is with people and seeing coming to reason and changing one's position on something as a bad thing? Stubbornness is not a virtue.

OP, no reason to change it back now. Same problem as before, except now you have the option of only being forced into a needless $10 purchase instead of a $40 one just to please some anal retentive neckbeard.

I knew archiving the FAQs and Tournament rules would come in useful.

Okay so quick history of the introduction of multi-faction ships. In preparation of Wave 6 and the arrival of the Scum and Villainy faction X-wing Tournament rules 2.2.2 updated on 2.27.2015 stated this on the 1st page.

Multiple Faction Ships
All dials, pilot cards, and ship tokens in a player’s squad must belong to the
same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction,
he or she may use any version of that ship’s model in his or her squad.
Multiple Ship Example: Scott is fielding a Scum & Villainy squad
consisting of four Z-95 Headhunters and one Firespray. His
Firespray model is from the Imperial Firespray expansion, two of
his Z-95 Headhunter models are from the Rebel Z-95 expansion,
and the final two of his Z-95 Headhunter models are from the
Scum & Villainy Most Wanted expansion. However, all of his dials,
pilot cards, and ship tokens are from the Scum & Villainy faction.

... continued on next post (problem with formatting)

Edited by Marinealver
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... Continued from last post

The next version of the tournament rules X-wing tournament rules 2.2.3 (having the same update date as version 2.2.2 for some unknown reason) had the paragraph changed to this on page 2.


Multiple Faction Ships
All pilot cards and ship tokens in a player’s squad must belong to the same
faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, he or
she may use any version of that ship’s model and dial in his or her squad.
Multiple Ship Example: Scott is fielding a Scum & Villainy squad
consisting of four Z-95 Headhunters and one Firespray. His
Firespray model and dial are from the Imperial Firespray
expansion, two of his Z-95 Headhunter models and dials are
from the Rebel Z-95 expansion, and the final two of his Z-95
Headhunter models and dials are from the Scum & Villainy Most
Wanted expansion. However, all of his pilot cards and ship tokens
are from the Scum & Villainy faction.

As you see a complete 180 from the previous ruling once the fairness of FFG's business practices came under some questions which previously was considered beyond reproach. The next revision of the tournament rules also saw relaxing the restrictions of play mats in tournaments.

So with the arrival of the dial upgrade kits do you think it is possible for FFG to go back to that original ruling? Do you think it is a good idea or is it still as horrible as it was back then?

As for me and my position I just wanted to bring up this topic for discussion. I am not above taking 4 Z-95 Headhunters, or 3 Y-wings or even 2 Scumhawks when I only have a single Most Wanted pack and 2 of the flowing; Z-95 Headhunters, 2 Y-wing, and HWK -290. I think that still is the general consensus but again with dial upgrade kits coming out you can't help but wonder if that was in the back of someone's mind.

Edited by Marinealver
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The FAQ before the release of wave 6 said that for competitive tournaments the faction of the dial had to match the faction of the ship so you would only have enough components to make 1 S&V HWK-290. Shortly after that FAQ and before the release of Wave 6 that ruling was reversed and you could have 2 S&V HWK-290s without having to buy a 2nd Most Wanted pack.

So the question is would it be better to instead of buying a 2nd most wanted pack have players by a dial upgrade kit to change one of the rebel HWK-290 dials to a S&V HWK-290 as an option instead, or just maintain the status quo?

It was in a FAQ for less than a day. Released a FAQ and then rereleased it a few hours later after making it work correctly.

The mess was caused by one of those premature emails that probably sent a good portion of the "I don't really care" group one way. Without that I suspect those who really believed you should need the "faction matching dial" number less than 10% of the player while those who don't see a reason for faction matching dials was probably 50% or more of the people before someone gave in indication that it would require the matching dials.

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With the dial kits, you just put the old back into the plastic. What difference would it make what color the non-visible back of that piece of cardboard is?