I'm not saying that you shouldn't roll for damage... I'm saying that FFG needs to clarify.

They did!

Yes, they did. But insufficiently.

You know, I don't see anywhere in the rules where it specifically states we're supposed actually take the ships out of the packaging and play with them that way. I mean, it's assumed and all with talk of bases and pegs and such, but FFG really needs to clarify if that's the case.

but FFG really needs to clarify if that's the case.

That kind of hyperbolic comment doesn't help, didn't help with other people used the same sort of argument.

Right now all the FAQ really says is "The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps." But what exactly that means is still a bit vague.

I can completely see the logic behind the 'you roll for damage' argument since that is one of the effects you get when overlapping an obstacle. But at the same time the rules talk about rolling for damage after you skip the perform action step.

The question is, can you ignore part of a step but continue on with other parts of it, if that one part no longer applies.

In this case, should you roll for damage if you can't skip your perform action step, because you already took it?

Conner net seems to imply so, since in some cases you delay part of it or skip over part of it completely. The way it lists the effects is different enough from an obstacle it's hard to use it. But taking damage does mean you skip over part of the process.

The real problem is, that FFG still hasn't really addressed what happens when stuff the rules cover happen in a way that the rules don't account for. The obstacle rules are clearly written to happen as part of a maneuver and do not account for a ship overlapping one outside of it's maneuver phase.

I think that Alex/Frank intended for you to take damage this way, but the FAQ is still really not clear on that point. They could've at least put in a real Q&A for it to explain how it's supposed to work. But all we have is the fairly vague statement I quoted above.

By this logic, overlapping a debris could via Tractor Beam does absolutely nothing. There's no Check Pilot Stress step after which to assign a stress token, and since that doesn't happen, you can't move on to rolling for damage. So the effect of this obstacle is ... nada. If that's what FFG intended, why not have the errata read, "A ship that overlaps an asteroid cannot attack" and leave it at that? Why say "the ship suffers the effect"?

You still have to leave the Debris Cloud the following turn, the same way you leave an Asteroid the following turn.

The maneuver template will probably overlap the obstacle as you leave it. Do you think the intent of the tractor beam was 2 stress tokens and 2 damage rolls for a single use, spread over 2 turns?

The effect says:

After skipping the "Perform Action" step, it rolls one attack die.

No skipping, no die roll. The die roll didn't trigger, as worded.

So what have you been doing so far when using Daredevil and overlapping an obstacle?

Well, what happens when you barrel roll on to a Conner Net token? Can you still use "Push the Limit?" for a 2nd action?

If you are in the middle of the perform action step and an effect causes you to skip it, does it immediately end and you skip the rest of it? Partial skip?

The Dauntless title for the Decimator seems to imply it does not immediately end, because you already started it, you do not skip it and can resolve your triggers.

Now keep in mind, although you skip the perform action step, you are still resolving all your steps in the proper order. Using Advanced Sensors does not allow you to ignore obstacles. The Perform Action step still comes up, and immediately ends, and you resolve effects like obstacles that rely on that step.

So maybe Daredevil needs an errata too. another one, lawl.

Vulf, I understand your logic, though in such case we would need to say that Advanced Sensors allows you to ignore obstacles. Due to the very same reason we are now discussing.

The question is in fact if the "after skipping perform action steps roll" means that you need to have this step for the whole effect to take place or it only indicates an order.

If we assume that Tractor Beam does not trigger the damage roll, than the Adv. Sensors should allow you to ignore the obstacle.

If we assume otherwise, both rules seems "correct".

I do admit that this is somehow not clear. However, there will be always some "wordy' topics... Another example is the AT card - they phrased the distance a bit different way than usually and we had issues.

Maybe we should also take into consideration the fact that the initial description of obstacles effects did not include the fact that you may be bumper onto an asteroid in the combat phase, hence underlining this was irrelevant.

Advanced Sensors says you must skip your "Perform Action" step during this round.

The damage roll of Asteroid comes after skipping the perform action step. There doesn't seem to be any contradiction, you just have 2 different reasons to skip your perform action step but the result is the same.

But even with Debris Clouds, Advanced Sensors does not let you ignore the damage roll from overlapping.

You still go through all the steps in a turn even if you are skipping or not doing anything in them.

That's why we still roll defense dice after the attacker rolls 4 blanks on red dice.

No where does it say may... It clearly states pick one.. The only reason it says that it is not an action or maneuver it to prevent people saying that it triggers the effect of other cards. ...( Move along nothing to see here!).... Man Not to sound mean but I'm glad that we Don't Read between the lines where I play..

Man Not to sound mean but I'm glad that we Don't Read between the lines where I play..

You know, I don't do that, either. I fly very, VERY casual and non-competitive. Just for the fun of the game. But some people don't, and that is why these things have to be made as clear as possible. You don't want to be TO in such a situation.

No where does it say may... It clearly states pick one.. The only reason it says that it is not an action or maneuver it to prevent people saying that it triggers the effect of other cards. ...( Move along nothing to see here!).... Man Not to sound mean but I'm glad that we Don't Read between the lines where I play..

Actually it does say "may"

The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player may choose one of the following effects: ...

So it does leave the TB with an option. You can choose to barrel roll or boost the target ship, or leave it exactly where it is. After all, if the hapless victim flew onto a rock all by himself, why would you want to use your tractor beam to help him off?

The mandatory part is the assigning of a TB token, and the reduction of the ship's agility value.

You're quite correct in your reasoning for it being stated as not a manoeuvre or action, though. I could imagine all sorts of shenanigans arising otherwise.

No where does it say may... It clearly states pick one.. The only reason it says that it is not an action or maneuver it to prevent people saying that it triggers the effect of other cards. ...( Move along nothing to see here!).... Man Not to sound mean but I'm glad that we Don't Read between the lines where I play..

Actually it does say "may"

The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player may choose one of the following effects: ...

So it does leave the TB with an option. You can choose to barrel roll or boost the target ship, or leave it exactly where it is. After all, if the hapless victim flew onto a rock all by himself, why would you want to use your tractor beam to help him off?

The mandatory part is the assigning of a TB token, and the reduction of the ship's agility value.

You're quite correct in your reasoning for it being stated as not a manoeuvre or action, though. I could imagine all sorts of shenanigans arising otherwise.

Note that if you decide not to move it (like to bash someone with Ruthlessness), you cannot then move it with a later ship.

Movement powers are possible by the first token it receives, and the first token only.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't roll for damage... I'm saying that FFG needs to clarify.

They did!

Yes, they did. But insufficiently.

Only if you're looking to rules lawyer and have the reading comprehension of a potato.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't roll for damage... I'm saying that FFG needs to clarify.

They did!

Yes, they did. But insufficiently.

Only if you're looking to rules lawyer and have the reading comprehension of a potato.

Now stop your one-line comments and discuss like a reasonable person or just shut up.

The irony is strong with this one.

And you answered the question with your own statement:

...they leave just enough wiggle room for guys who feel the need to exploit every last advantage they can get.

Ergo, only those looking to exploit things will read it any other way than FFG intended. So either you're looking to rules lawyer, or you have the comprehension of a root vegetable.

For the most of us "The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps" is perfectly clear. On a rock? No shooting for you. On debris? Take a stress.

Now stop your one-line comments and discuss like a reasonable person or just shut up.

The irony is strong with this one.

And you answered the question with your own statement:

...they leave just enough wiggle room for guys who feel the need to exploit every last advantage they can get.

Ergo, only those looking to exploit things will read it any other way than FFG intended. So either you're looking to rules lawyer, or you have the comprehension of a root vegetable.

For the most of us "The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps" is perfectly clear. On a rock? No shooting for you. On debris? Take a stress.

Just that behavior like that is wrong, uncalled for and not at all in the spirit of flying casual doesn't mean that it can't happen. I don't want the game I love so much to be tainted by bickering over loopholes in the rules, that's why I just asked for some clarification. Respectfully. All you did was ignore the points Vulf and I brought up.

Where there are games there's always TFG waiting to game the system.

No where does it say may... It clearly states pick one.. The only reason it says that it is not an action or maneuver it to prevent people saying that it triggers the effect of other cards. ...( Move along nothing to see here!).... Man Not to sound mean but I'm glad that we Don't Read between the lines where I play..

Actually it does say "may"

The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player may choose one of the following effects: ...

So it does leave the TB with an option. You can choose to barrel roll or boost the target ship, or leave it exactly where it is. After all, if the hapless victim flew onto a rock all by himself, why would you want to use your tractor beam to help him off?

The mandatory part is the assigning of a TB token, and the reduction of the ship's agility value.

You're quite correct in your reasoning for it being stated as not a manoeuvre or action, though. I could imagine all sorts of shenanigans arising otherwise.

I'm holding the card and the word "may" isn't on the entire card any where.

Kudos to the game designers on the wording on this card. They hit this one out of the park!

No where does it say may... It clearly states pick one.. The only reason it says that it is not an action or maneuver it to prevent people saying that it triggers the effect of other cards. ...( Move along nothing to see here!).... Man Not to sound mean but I'm glad that we Don't Read between the lines where I play..

Actually it does say "may"

The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player may choose one of the following effects: ...

So it does leave the TB with an option. You can choose to barrel roll or boost the target ship, or leave it exactly where it is. After all, if the hapless victim flew onto a rock all by himself, why would you want to use your tractor beam to help him off?

The mandatory part is the assigning of a TB token, and the reduction of the ship's agility value.

You're quite correct in your reasoning for it being stated as not a manoeuvre or action, though. I could imagine all sorts of shenanigans arising otherwise.

I'm holding the card and the word "may" isn't on the entire card any where.

Have you read the latest FAQ? This card comes pre-errated.

No where does it say may... It clearly states pick one.. The only reason it says that it is not an action or maneuver it to prevent people saying that it triggers the effect of other cards. ...( Move along nothing to see here!).... Man Not to sound mean but I'm glad that we Don't Read between the lines where I play..

Actually it does say "may"

The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player may choose one of the following effects: ...

So it does leave the TB with an option. You can choose to barrel roll or boost the target ship, or leave it exactly where it is. After all, if the hapless victim flew onto a rock all by himself, why would you want to use your tractor beam to help him off?

The mandatory part is the assigning of a TB token, and the reduction of the ship's agility value.

You're quite correct in your reasoning for it being stated as not a manoeuvre or action, though. I could imagine all sorts of shenanigans arising otherwise.

I'm holding the card and the word "may" isn't on the entire card any where.

Have you read the latest FAQ? This card comes pre-errated.

Well F*** me.. I'm saddened that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I was a huge fan that they took a stand and worded the card so well. Now they threw "may" in there... I'll hand my head in shame now... For me and for FFG..

No where does it say may... It clearly states pick one.. The only reason it says that it is not an action or maneuver it to prevent people saying that it triggers the effect of other cards. ...( Move along nothing to see here!).... Man Not to sound mean but I'm glad that we Don't Read between the lines where I play..

Actually it does say "may"

The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player may choose one of the following effects: ...

So it does leave the TB with an option. You can choose to barrel roll or boost the target ship, or leave it exactly where it is. After all, if the hapless victim flew onto a rock all by himself, why would you want to use your tractor beam to help him off?

The mandatory part is the assigning of a TB token, and the reduction of the ship's agility value.

You're quite correct in your reasoning for it being stated as not a manoeuvre or action, though. I could imagine all sorts of shenanigans arising otherwise.

I'm holding the card and the word "may" isn't on the entire card any where.

Have you read the latest FAQ? This card comes pre-errated.

Well F*** me.. I'm saddened that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I was a huge fan that they took a stand and worded the card so well. Now they threw "may" in there... I'll hand my head in shame now... For me and for FFG..

Note.... "You May Do whatever!" This is the Start Of the downfall of X-Wing.. When They crumble to add "May" This is how Wiz-Kids Mechwarrior Started it's downfall.. I shall Crawl away now...

I think mechwarrior started its downfall the instant wizkidz thought it up.

Now stop your one-line comments and discuss like a reasonable person or just shut up.

The irony is strong with this one.

And you answered the question with your own statement:

...they leave just enough wiggle room for guys who feel the need to exploit every last advantage they can get.

Ergo, only those looking to exploit things will read it any other way than FFG intended. So either you're looking to rules lawyer, or you have the comprehension of a root vegetable.

For the most of us "The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps" is perfectly clear. On a rock? No shooting for you. On debris? Take a stress.

On a Rock? No shooting is clear. On Debris? Taking the stress is clear. The area that needs clarification is what to do about rolling for damage caused by overlaping the obstacle. All the lawyers and root vegetables that I bother to have conversations with take the effort to understand the other's argument. Look back at the graphic that Vulf posted in this thread. The current wording for obstacles doesn't work the way that the preview article says Tractor Beams works. Are we going to have a situation like with the SLAM action and bombs where the article is just wrong, or will FFG adjust the wording of the obstacles rules to take into account running aground in the combat phase?

As it isn't classed as a movement. You wouldn't take the damage roll.. However if you can get them placed so they have to put there movement template over the obstacle to move off of it then they would roll the dice.

As it isn't classed as a movement. You wouldn't take the damage roll.. However if you can get them placed so they have to put there movement template over the obstacle to move off of it then they would roll the dice.

When they move off next round

I'm a new fish in this rather large pond but I think it's crystal clear that this matter needs to be re-clarified by FFG. We are splitting hairs here but it's the splitting of hairs that make a TO judge a TO judge.