At any rate, I would also highly recommend the Order 66 Podcast. You can check out their episode descriptions over on Feedburner so as to better select the episodes you might want to listen to, but I second the notion that "Kung Pao Chicken" would be very valuable.

I'll make a final plea and let it go.

If a given range band has a lower and upper end, and it's possible for a vehicle to cross that band in a given amount of time. (Like a turn or two or three) then you have a mathematical situation regardless if you pay attention to it or not. Many if not most involved are going to do that math and come up with a correlation, and when it's not consistent but rather varies on the whim of the gm, some will rightfully complain. Their equipment, skills, abilities, die rolls and choices become secondary to the apparently inconsistent laws of the universe.

Even I'm getting tired of this thread now and have about decided to fix my issues on my own or give up and consider ebay. I have run 3 sessions for my group and my complaints are felt throughout.

If the rules allow that a given vehicle can move from medium to short range for example in the span of about 2 minutes, but the description of that distance in the book ranges from a few dozen meters to several kilometers then the variance becomes problematic even to narrate abstractly. In my opinion. You can ignore the numbers sure, I huess. I hear that's what I'm being urged to do. I get it really.

Ok I'm done. This is pointless. I appreciate your time guys, really I do.

Close it then moderators, by all means. No argument from me. If anyone would like a SERIOUS discussion on the subject, feel free to message me.

Because is disingenuous insult is not a insult?

You miss that your opponents understand your argument but you have shown no understanding of theirs.

No, I say this as kindly as I can but I haven't seen evidence that they do. I blame myself actually, somehow Im not relating the issue clearly or Im certain the responses would be more in line with "Yeah, we had that issue to but got over it in favor of a more freeform interpretation of range bands" etc.

A few have actually said something like that but were unclear even then as to how they actually used the rules now after a realization.

No more insults, from me certainly. That's not who I am as a gamer or person.

You don't give up do you? You must be a very unhappy person. Ive apologized, accepted responsibility and even acknowledged Im coming around to your way of thinking and you still want to nag. Geeze man, chill a little.

Maybe it's because only a few posts ago you said "The slaps were incoming long before any went out." It just seems a little disingenuous.

Perhaps but if you go back and read the posts in order that they were made, its entirely accurate. I came in looking for help and several decided that I was therefore an easy target to ridicule. When I didn't take to their sometimes very vague explanations of what I was doing wrong, their impatience fostered some heat. Its not a big deal, it happens and I did my best to put it to rest there. Some have a tougher time letting things go. I get that. But really, lets call it over please.

I'll say......

You don't give up do you? You must be a very unhappy person. Ive apologized, accepted responsibility and even acknowledged Im coming around to your way of thinking and you still want to nag. Geeze man, chill a little.

You don’t give up, do you? You must be a very unhappy person.

You have said repeatedly that you’re done with this thread, that you would like to have it closed, but then you keep coming back and dishing out more, and then not liking what gets dished out.

Some have a tougher time letting things go.

Obviously. As you have repeatedly demonstrated, time and time again.

I get that.

Do you? Do you really? Have you looked in a mirror lately?

But really, lets call it over please.

Yes, please. Feel free to avoid responding to this message in any way, shape, or form.

There. Sorted it out for you guys. All better now.

Perhaps you could take the advice in the vein it is given. Instead of just shooting it down because you don't feel you need it. I have repeatedly seen you discount the advice you are being given while at the same time complaining about the system. It does not come across well. I think you really could benefit from actually listening to other GMs who run this game in live play podcasts as well as listening to some very experienced GMs in the system going over it to teach others.

I believe I do. But when Im not getting the message, as for a while there I wasn't, you have little choice but to keep asking. I know it annoys people but you hope that eventually someone will devise a way to explain what you are missing or perhaps, come to an understanding of your point.

I'll make a final plea and let it go.

If a given range band has a lower and upper end, and it's possible for a vehicle to cross that band in a given amount of time. (Like a turn or two or three) then you have a mathematical situation regardless if you pay attention to it or not. Many if not most involved are going to do that math and come up with a correlation, and when it's not consistent but rather varies on the whim of the gm, some will rightfully complain. Their equipment, skills, abilities, die rolls and choices become secondary to the apparently inconsistent laws of the universe.

Even I'm getting tired of this thread now and have about decided to fix my issues on my own or give up and consider ebay. I have run 3 sessions for my group and my complaints are felt throughout.

If the rules allow that a given vehicle can move from medium to short range for example in the span of about 2 minutes, but the description of that distance in the book ranges from a few dozen meters to several kilometers then the variance becomes problematic even to narrate abstractly. In my opinion. You can ignore the numbers sure, I huess. I hear that's what I'm being urged to do. I get it really.

Ok I'm done. This is pointless. I appreciate your time guys, really I do.

Close it then moderators, by all means. No argument from me. If anyone would like a SERIOUS discussion on the subject, feel free to message me.

Because is disingenuous insult is not a insult?

You miss that your opponents understand your argument but you have shown no understanding of theirs.

No, I say this as kindly as I can but I haven't seen evidence that they do. I blame myself actually, somehow Im not relating the issue clearly or Im certain the responses would be more in line with "Yeah, we had that issue to but got over it in favor of a more freeform interpretation of range bands" etc.

A few have actually said something like that but were unclear even then as to how they actually used the rules now after a realization.

No more insults, from me certainly. That's not who I am as a gamer or person.

You don't give up do you? You must be a very unhappy person. Ive apologized, accepted responsibility and even acknowledged Im coming around to your way of thinking and you still want to nag. Geeze man, chill a little.

Maybe it's because only a few posts ago you said "The slaps were incoming long before any went out." It just seems a little disingenuous.

Perhaps but if you go back and read the posts in order that they were made, its entirely accurate. I came in looking for help and several decided that I was therefore an easy target to ridicule. When I didn't take to their sometimes very vague explanations of what I was doing wrong, their impatience fostered some heat. Its not a big deal, it happens and I did my best to put it to rest there. Some have a tougher time letting things go. I get that. But really, lets call it over please.

I'll say......

Ditto, with fewer quotes.

You don't give up do you? You must be a very unhappy person. Ive apologized, accepted responsibility and even acknowledged Im coming around to your way of thinking and you still want to nag. Geeze man, chill a little.

You don’t give up, do you? You must be a very unhappy person.

You have said repeatedly that you’re done with this thread, that you would like to have it closed, but then you keep coming back and dishing out more, and then not liking what gets dished out.

Laugh, each time I walk away some dolt has to take advantage and get one last slap in as I leave, perhaps hoping to have the last word. Childish, for me as well to return to deprive them of it, but that's the facts.

Some have a tougher time letting things go.

Obviously. As you have repeatedly demonstrated, time and time again.

I get that.

Do you? Do you really? Have you looked in a mirror lately?

But really, lets call it over please.

Yes, please. Feel free to avoid responding to this message in any way, shape, or form.

Absolutely your highness.

I have a hard time believing I am the problem child in this ridiculous exchange. If someone monitoring officially decides I am, Ill differ to their judgement. I feel Im being consistently provoked but I suppose it could be viewed differently. Each time I try to bow out gracefully someone comes back with an attack. Ive even asked that the thread be closed to avoid this, no luck so far.

Laugh, each time I walk away some dolt has to take advantage and get one last slap in as I leave, perhaps hoping to have the last word. Childish, for me as well to return to deprive them of it, but that's the facts.

I find it so very interesting that your own words are so much more applicable to yourself than to anyone else. And yet you seem to be so blissfully unaware of that irony.

I believe I do. But when Im not getting the message, as for a while there I wasn't, you have little choice but to keep asking.

I would agree, “not getting the message” does seem to be your signature habit.

I know it annoys people but you hope that eventually someone will devise a way to explain what you are missing or perhaps, come to an understanding of your point.

Okay, so again you are correct about analyzing your own behaviour — your other signature habit is to continually annoy people until you get what you want.

Absolutely your highness.

Ahh, if only you could see the irony in this post.

Or, maybe Obvious Troll does see the irony, which is precisely why he finds it necessary to continue the trolling.

Perhaps you could take the advice in the vein it is given. Instead of just shooting it down because you don't feel you need it. I have repeatedly seen you discount the advice you are being given while at the same time complaining about the system. It does not come across well. I think you really could benefit from actually listening to other GMs who run this game in live play podcasts as well as listening to some very experienced GMs in the system going over it to teach others.

I believe I do. But when Im not getting the message, as for a while there I wasn't, you have little choice but to keep asking. I know it annoys people but you hope that eventually someone will devise a way to explain what you are missing or perhaps, come to an understanding of your point.

Which is why the suggesting that you listen to some live plays was given. Which you poo pooed...And I suggested So it is getting rather old you saying no no I don't like it and no I will not try any suggestions...

Perhaps you could take the advice in the vein it is given. Instead of just shooting it down because you don't feel you need it. I have repeatedly seen you discount the advice you are being given while at the same time complaining about the system. It does not come across well. I think you really could benefit from actually listening to other GMs who run this game in live play podcasts as well as listening to some very experienced GMs in the system going over it to teach others.

I believe I do. But when Im not getting the message, as for a while there I wasn't, you have little choice but to keep asking. I know it annoys people but you hope that eventually someone will devise a way to explain what you are missing or perhaps, come to an understanding of your point.

Which is why the suggesting that you listen to some live plays was given. Which you poo pooed...And I suggested So it is getting rather old you saying no no I don't like it and no I will not try any suggestions...

I have listened to several podcasts an enjoyed them quite a bit. Im pretty sure I never said anything negative about them, in fact, I just read back through and never said anything about them at all. I certainly didn't "poo poo' anything.

Perhaps you could take the advice in the vein it is given. Instead of just shooting it down because you don't feel you need it. I have repeatedly seen you discount the advice you are being given while at the same time complaining about the system. It does not come across well. I think you really could benefit from actually listening to other GMs who run this game in live play podcasts as well as listening to some very experienced GMs in the system going over it to teach others.

I believe I do. But when Im not getting the message, as for a while there I wasn't, you have little choice but to keep asking. I know it annoys people but you hope that eventually someone will devise a way to explain what you are missing or perhaps, come to an understanding of your point.

Which is why the suggesting that you listen to some live plays was given. Which you poo pooed...And I suggested So it is getting rather old you saying no no I don't like it and no I will not try any suggestions...

I have listened to several podcasts an enjoyed them quite a bit. Im pretty sure I never said anything negative about them, in fact, I just read back through and never said anything about them at all. I certainly didn't "poo poo' anything.

He's got a point, guys. He didn't poo-poo that suggestion.

He just completely ignored it.

This really isn't a game about being effective or winning or competing with the gm or the other players. It really is a game about telling a cool stories together!

I understand Roleplaying games can be hard to get into if you aren't joining an already established and experienced Group.

I suggest you and your players start listening to some podcasts! One Shot, Campaign, Silhouette Zero, Bothan Banther.

Enjoy:)

I've said this a couple time already I think but 30+ year GM here with seasoned group. Our issues werent with roleplaying or even narrative roleplaying but with one section of the rules. We are getting a handle on it now, more or less, but thanks.

Except that yeah you did poo poo the idea of listening to podcasts... cause I am elite experience man i don't need to do that...

Perhaps you could take the advice in the vein it is given. Instead of just shooting it down because you don't feel you need it. I have repeatedly seen you discount the advice you are being given while at the same time complaining about the system. It does not come across well. I think you really could benefit from actually listening to other GMs who run this game in live play podcasts as well as listening to some very experienced GMs in the system going over it to teach others.

I believe I do. But when Im not getting the message, as for a while there I wasn't, you have little choice but to keep asking. I know it annoys people but you hope that eventually someone will devise a way to explain what you are missing or perhaps, come to an understanding of your point.

Which is why the suggesting that you listen to some live plays was given. Which you poo pooed...And I suggested So it is getting rather old you saying no no I don't like it and no I will not try any suggestions...

I have listened to several podcasts an enjoyed them quite a bit. Im pretty sure I never said anything negative about them, in fact, I just read back through and never said anything about them at all. I certainly didn't "poo poo' anything.

He's got a point, guys. He didn't poo-poo that suggestion.

He just completely ignored it.

Laugh, I didn't specifically announce that I watched several podcasts and somehow that constitutes a crime? Before I ever bought the game I checked out reviews and several pod casts as a peek into what it was like. Dang guys, I know some of you got hacked at me but now your just being silly.

This really isn't a game about being effective or winning or competing with the gm or the other players. It really is a game about telling a cool stories together!

I understand Roleplaying games can be hard to get into if you aren't joining an already established and experienced Group.

I suggest you and your players start listening to some podcasts! One Shot, Campaign, Silhouette Zero, Bothan Banther.

Enjoy:)

I've said this a couple time already I think but 30+ year GM here with seasoned group. Our issues werent with roleplaying or even narrative roleplaying but with one section of the rules. We are getting a handle on it now, more or less, but thanks.

Except that yeah you did poo poo the idea of listening to podcasts... cause I am elite experience man i don't need to do that...

You choose to think I was responding to the last suggestion. Instead, as is rather obvious, I was responding to the sentence before that, the insinuation that perhaps my issues were due to not being part of an established or experienced group. This is getting ridiculous, we are all reading whatever we want into these damned posts and going away with our own version of what everybody is saying.

I copied this entire thread and ran it by my group as well as a few co-workers. Each of them came away with a different take.. some though I was being a jerk, some thought you guys are a bunch of a-holes, some thought we were all being childish and then a couple said the problem was inaccurate communication due to the limitations of the written format.

Is there no way to end this outside of a moderator? Heck, Ive tried several times and somebody always chymes in with another insult. I know, I know I could ignore it but think about it. If you believed you were being handed a raw deal by a group of people that were attacking you for no reason, would you just bow and walk away when they gig you one more time?

Perhaps you could take the advice in the vein it is given. Instead of just shooting it down because you don't feel you need it. I have repeatedly seen you discount the advice you are being given while at the same time complaining about the system. It does not come across well. I think you really could benefit from actually listening to other GMs who run this game in live play podcasts as well as listening to some very experienced GMs in the system going over it to teach others.

I believe I do. But when Im not getting the message, as for a while there I wasn't, you have little choice but to keep asking. I know it annoys people but you hope that eventually someone will devise a way to explain what you are missing or perhaps, come to an understanding of your point.

Which is why the suggesting that you listen to some live plays was given. Which you poo pooed...And I suggested So it is getting rather old you saying no no I don't like it and no I will not try any suggestions...

I have listened to several podcasts an enjoyed them quite a bit. Im pretty sure I never said anything negative about them, in fact, I just read back through and never said anything about them at all. I certainly didn't "poo poo' anything.

He's got a point, guys. He didn't poo-poo that suggestion.

He just completely ignored it.

Laugh, I didn't specifically announce that I watched several podcasts and somehow that constitutes a crime? Before I ever bought the game I checked out reviews and several pod casts as a peek into what it was like. Dang guys, I know some of you got hacked at me but now your just being silly.

Who said anything about a crime? Heck...I was agreeing with you: you didn't poo-poo on the suggestion to watch podcasts specifically on the issue you have a problem with, you ignored it. Now, you state that you "checked out reviews and several podcasts" prior to starting, prior to encountering the game mechanic that is apparently so game-breaking that it requires you creating multiple threads on the matter, continually turning away from all advice and feedback offered on the matter, and frequent utterances that you're ready to just pack it in and bail on the system. Logic then suggests that none of those "several podcasts" touched upon this fatal flaw in the game system (a flaw so egregious that the vast majority of the player base...has no problem at all understanding). That being the case, the suggestion of pointing you to podcasts specifically on the issue at hand is a sound one.

If you still choose to dismiss that suggestion, that's your choice. But, doing so circles back around to you basically saying, "No...I got this. I'm the only one who really understands, and I don't need help...despite my asking for help."

Is there no way to end this outside of a moderator? Heck, Ive tried several times and somebody always chymes in with another insult. I know, I know I could ignore it but think about it. If you believed you were being handed a raw deal by a group of people that were attacking you for no reason, would you just bow and walk away when they gig you one more time?

I just have to ask, are you really posing this question?

Perhaps you could take the advice in the vein it is given. Instead of just shooting it down because you don't feel you need it. I have repeatedly seen you discount the advice you are being given while at the same time complaining about the system. It does not come across well. I think you really could benefit from actually listening to other GMs who run this game in live play podcasts as well as listening to some very experienced GMs in the system going over it to teach others.

I believe I do. But when Im not getting the message, as for a while there I wasn't, you have little choice but to keep asking. I know it annoys people but you hope that eventually someone will devise a way to explain what you are missing or perhaps, come to an understanding of your point.

Which is why the suggesting that you listen to some live plays was given. Which you poo pooed...And I suggested So it is getting rather old you saying no no I don't like it and no I will not try any suggestions...

I have listened to several podcasts an enjoyed them quite a bit. Im pretty sure I never said anything negative about them, in fact, I just read back through and never said anything about them at all. I certainly didn't "poo poo' anything.

He's got a point, guys. He didn't poo-poo that suggestion.

He just completely ignored it.

Laugh, I didn't specifically announce that I watched several podcasts and somehow that constitutes a crime? Before I ever bought the game I checked out reviews and several pod casts as a peek into what it was like. Dang guys, I know some of you got hacked at me but now your just being silly.

Who said anything about a crime? Heck...I was agreeing with you: you didn't poo-poo on the suggestion to watch podcasts specifically on the issue you have a problem with, you ignored it. Now, you state that you "checked out reviews and several podcasts" prior to starting, prior to encountering the game mechanic that is apparently so game-breaking that it requires you creating multiple threads on the matter, continually turning away from all advice and feedback offered on the matter, and frequent utterances that you're ready to just pack it in and bail on the system. Logic then suggests that none of those "several podcasts" touched upon this fatal flaw in the game system (a flaw so egregious that the vast majority of the player base...has no problem at all understanding). That being the case, the suggestion of pointing you to podcasts specifically on the issue at hand is a sound one.

If you still choose to dismiss that suggestion, that's your choice. But, doing so circles back around to you basically saying, "No...I got this. I'm the only one who really understands, and I don't need help...despite my asking for help."

Well I wont say its entirely impossible that I came across that way. But I will say it wasn't my intention. The pod casts, as in my own game, wouldn't include this sort of thing because it occurs mainly in the mind of the GM as he presents the game. I can cover it up easily and the players wouldn't know but I would know I was wandering a ways from the intent of the rules and yes, that would bother me. Perhaps it shouldn't. The pod casts were entertaining and gave a good indication of the flow of the game but not how the individual mechanisms worked. Some reviews were better at that but admittedly my issue only appears in a certain circumstance, not likely to be included in anybody's review unless they happened to have stumbled across it.

Sorry again if it seemed I didn't appreciate the help. I said thank you a lot but I can read that I probably didn't say it enough, and was harsh on other comments.

Internetting is hard.

Is there no way to end this outside of a moderator? Heck, Ive tried several times and somebody always chymes in with another insult. I know, I know I could ignore it but think about it. If you believed you were being handed a raw deal by a group of people that were attacking you for no reason, would you just bow and walk away when they gig you one more time?

I just have to ask, are you really posing this question?

yes 2p51, to you especially as you have been one of the most aggressive. If I were to hand you an insult in this post, which I wont, something demeaning though and to your mind completely inaccurate and opinionated.. would you just ignore it and never post here again? If so, then Ill admit you are a better man than I, at least at this moment, as its very hard to take a proverbial kick to the nuts and just grin, you know? And if your answer is yes, then I have to wonder why you haven't done it already?

Is there no way to end this outside of a moderator?

Good question.

Heck, Ive tried several times and somebody always chymes in with another insult. I know, I know I could ignore it but think about it. If you believed you were being handed a raw deal by a group of people that were attacking you for no reason, would you just bow and walk away when they gig you one more time?

If you don’t like being “gigged” by the group, and yet that is all you get every single time you post, then I have to wonder if you are capable of any kind of sane activity of any sort. After all, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing repeatedly, while expecting a different result.

IMO, the more you respond in this literally insane manner, the more you prove your true trollish nature.

And I think you will find that most of us don’t respond well to being trolled, or to the trolls doing the trolling.

You are totally and completely free to leave this thread or forum any time you like. We aren’t forcing you to continue to respond.

But if you do continue to respond, and you continue to respond in the manner you have recently demonstrated, then I think I can fairly safely predict that you are unlikely to get any different treatment from the community.

It’s your choice.

Your true nature will be proven by your actions, because your words are literally indefensible.