So, does a crystal retain the upgrades that someone puts into it, once it's removed from the hilt, and or given to someone else?

I don't recall the rules specifying this, and the "attunement" always felt like a personal, mystical bond thing, more than a mechanical thing. So that while Padawan McStabby has fully tweaked his crystal, 200 years later, Padawan Stabs McGee finds his ancient saber in a ruin, does it have all the nifty tweaks? Or for Stabs McGee, would they need to again, re-attune the crystal to themselves, otherwise working with a basic crystal stats?

I ask because I've got a young Force user in my game, who has inherited a saber from a dead mentor, and I realized I hadn't stat'd out the crystal, feeling free to let the player do that himself.

I would say never give a player a fully modded crystal it loses a lot of the flavor from the game if the player is just handed it. Consider modding the crystal to be a deeply personal attuning of the crystal.

I would say never give a player a fully modded crystal it loses a lot of the flavor from the game if the player is just handed it. Consider modding the crystal to be a deeply personal attuning of the crystal.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't what he asked.

And, yes, mods are kept.

I would say never give a player a fully modded crystal it loses a lot of the flavor from the game if the player is just handed it. Consider modding the crystal to be a deeply personal attuning of the crystal.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't what he asked.

And, yes, mods are kept.

Huh, bummer, I kind of liked the idea that the attunement was actually Force user specific. Ah well, not a big deal really, as the dead mentor didn't use her saber much, and instead dealt with problems with Force and social skills. So her having an unmodded crystal isn't that big a deal.

Though I might just simply house rule the "mods don't carry over", as I like the idea of the reason why YOU as a PC is able to get extra oomph from this crystal, is that you took time to become one with it, through meditation, construction, etc. Not just "oh man, that things previous owner really tricked it out with some sweet mods dude! You should totally take it off some sweet jumps!" ....I don't know why the Jedi in that example sounds like Napoleon Dynamite, but he does!

Yeah, whatever mods are made to the crystal are kept.

However bear in mind that any further modifications made by the new owner would not qualify for the "personal lightsaber crystal" and thus the new owner wouldn't get to add their Force Rating to the Mechanics checks to modify the crystal. Heck, as the GM I would not permit the new owner to gain any of the "personal weapon" perks when it came to modding the crystal, include the reduction in difficulty. And since the prior owner handed it off, I'd say it no longer counts as being his either.

Naturally, as the GM you really shouldn't allow the PCs to get to a point where obtaining lightsaber crystals is a trivial matter.

For your specific situation, I'd say that the inherited crystal (presumably an Ilum crystal) would only get a few modifications (probably 2, 3 at most), but that with a significant enough event, the PC could attune this crystal to count as their own personal crystal, and thus get the perks noted above (reduced difficulty, add Force Rating to the Mechanics checks to mod the crystal).

Yeah, whatever mods are made to the crystal are kept.

However bear in mind that any further modifications made by the new owner would not qualify for the "personal lightsaber crystal" and thus the new owner wouldn't get to add their Force Rating to the Mechanics checks to modify the crystal. Heck, as the GM I would not permit the new owner to gain any of the "personal weapon" perks when it came to modding the crystal, include the reduction in difficulty. And since the prior owner handed it off, I'd say it no longer counts as being his either.

Naturally, as the GM you really shouldn't allow the PCs to get to a point where obtaining lightsaber crystals is a trivial matter.

For your specific situation, I'd say that the inherited crystal (presumably an Ilum crystal) would only get a few modifications (probably 2, 3 at most), but that with a significant enough event, the PC could attune this crystal to count as their own personal crystal, and thus get the perks noted above (reduced difficulty, add Force Rating to the Mechanics checks to mod the crystal).

Eh, personally, I don't have an issue with the new owner getting full range of mods, assuming the crystal inherited is unmodified. In the sabersmithing podcast, they talked about what makes a saber "personal" and having worked on it yourself, or having used and owned it for a significant amount of time, would suffice. I personally agree with that idea. And the player is an Artisan, so I'm confident he will dismantle that saber, and rebuild it to his own liking later. Right now, no, he doesn't have any bonuses to those roles, but I'm fine with him getting them later, once he's tweaked the hilt a bit. I was mostly just curious what the RAW was regarding if the mods stayed or not. As the way I read them didn't feel like actual modifications to the laticework of the crystal itself, but more of a personal resonance with the crystal, and your own personal Force connection.

I would add a setback or two if another force user uses a lightsaber whose crystal has been attuned to someone else. The crystal is attuned to the original owner and would make it harder for someone else to use. It also explains why Luke lost so dramatically besides not being that strong in the force in ESB.

I would add a setback or two if another force user uses a lightsaber whose crystal has been attuned to someone else. The crystal is attuned to the original owner and would make it harder for someone else to use. It also explains why Luke lost so dramatically besides not being that strong in the force in ESB.

Short summary of situation:

Character is a young urchin from a space station that the Mentor Jedi found recently, when she used the Force to defend herself against some people assaulting her and her caretaker. The Jedi realized "Ok, this kid's got some power, but no control, and already did something kind of dark to defend herself, I'm going to take her with me and my Padawan to Coruscant" Basically, Episode 1's breakdown of Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin. Only this kid isn't some Chosen One, just a kid with Force sensitivity. I killed off the Mentor, so I could have an easy excuse on why she wasn't helping with what was going on, and stranded the two PC's on a planet, trying to survive. She got the Mentor's saber, because OOCly, that was always the plan, for her to become a Jedi, or at least try. I just had to come up with a way of getting it into her hands. The force ghost of the mentor shows up a few days after they crash on the planet (the same crash that kills the Mentor), and basically gives her thumbs up to letting her use the saber, and training her.

So for all intents and purposes it's "hers" now, the previous owner's spirit has given her blessing, the Padawan (now teacher) agreed with the ghost that she should have it. She just has yet to actually fiddle with it in a mechanical sense. But the player expressly said to me "I want to do the whole Building My Own Lightsaber thing, including trying to use Move to do it with levitation while I build it." And I'm 100% on board with this plan. But given the PC is mechanically inclined, I'm confident the player will want to tweak the crystal to make the saber really powerful, as she should. Was mostly just curious if the mods would stick with the crystal, after ownership change, or if it was more of a "mystic bond" between user and crystal. Since it's RAW for the crystal to maintain the mods, I'm just going to say "She never bothered to mod her crystal, as she only used her saber as a last resort". No big issue for me, I don't mind house ruling things if need be, though I might just stick with my house rule of "the atunement resets when ownership changes", just for simplicity moving forward.

I heard something about Revan's Saber changing colors over the course of the game. I'm going to use attunement as the cause of lightsaber coloration. Attuning is a personal connection between a lightsaber crystal and it's weilder that determines it's color based on the personality of the weilder. A new owner can change the color of the blade by attuning to it. Attuning to a new crystal should be easier than attuning to a previously owned one.

So for all intents and purposes it's "hers" now, the previous owner's spirit has given her blessing, the Padawan (now teacher) agreed with the ghost that she should have it. She just has yet to actually fiddle with it in a mechanical sense. But the player expressly said to me "I want to do the whole Building My Own Lightsaber thing, including trying to use Move to do it with levitation while I build it." And I'm 100% on board with this plan. But given the PC is mechanically inclined, I'm confident the player will want to tweak the crystal to make the saber really powerful, as she should. Was mostly just curious if the mods would stick with the crystal, after ownership change, or if it was more of a "mystic bond" between user and crystal. Since it's RAW for the crystal to maintain the mods, I'm just going to say "She never bothered to mod her crystal, as she only used her saber as a last resort". No big issue for me, I don't mind house ruling things if need be, though I might just stick with my house rule of "the atunement resets when ownership changes", just for simplicity moving forward.

The way I figure, the crystal would remain attuned to its previous owner until such a time as it becomes attuned to its current owner. I have a similar situation in a game I'm running, wherein one character found and uses her mother's lightsaber. Had she tried to modify it when she got it, she wouldn't have received any of the perks since it was still attuned. I resolved she had to undergo "shared trauma" with the lightsaber, meaning she had to pass some trial in which the lightsaber played an integral part. That came when she was escaping from an Inquisitor's clutches and was able to steal the lightsaber back by yanking it out of the Inquisitor's hands and then stand her ground in order to protect her friends. I ruled that was suitably light side (and also awesome) so that the crystal now counted as hers for the purposes of modding.

I would do something similar. If your player wants to modify the crystal, that's fine, but she doesn't get the perks until she does something that attunes it to her. It being passed on by her mentor's Force ghost might work, but I'd make it more of an ordeal. Have it happen in a moment where she really connects with the Force or when she comes close to the Jedi ideals. If you've already told her it's hers, though, I wouldn't go back on it.

I heard something about Revan's Saber changing colors over the course of the game. I'm going to use attunement as the cause of lightsaber coloration. Attuning is a personal connection between a lightsaber crystal and it's weilder that determines it's color based on the personality of the weilder. A new owner can change the color of the blade by attuning to it. Attuning to a new crystal should be easier than attuning to a previously owned one.

I disagree. The color of the crystal does depend on the personality of the wielder, but I think that should only qualify for the first person to attune the crystal. While subsequent users can attune the crystal to them, the blade remains its original color. Luke using his father's lightsaber, for example: I personally feel like it's become attuned to him by Empire, but it's still the same blue color. If the player wants a different color, they have to find their own crystal.

That said, I really liked when Jaden Korr was able to meditate on a Sith lightsaber crystal and change its color from red to yellow. It was described as purging the dark side from the crystal, so if it were something along those lines, I'd allow the color to change.

Also, I agree that the path to reattuning a used crystal should be harder than simply locating and attuning a blank crystal.

Edit: To bolster my take on the color, read the last line of the databank entry on Kyber crystals: "From that point on, it retains that hue."

Not every adventure has to have a super long LS recovery quest, this is one such example that is immediately relevant to the player.

Generally mods do carry over, but Luke used anaikins lightsaber for some time and only acquired his offscreen afterward as a kind of side note. so it's as big or as little of an issue to each particular group.

So for all intents and purposes it's "hers" now, the previous owner's spirit has given her blessing, the Padawan (now teacher) agreed with the ghost that she should have it. She just has yet to actually fiddle with it in a mechanical sense. But the player expressly said to me "I want to do the whole Building My Own Lightsaber thing, including trying to use Move to do it with levitation while I build it." And I'm 100% on board with this plan. But given the PC is mechanically inclined, I'm confident the player will want to tweak the crystal to make the saber really powerful, as she should. Was mostly just curious if the mods would stick with the crystal, after ownership change, or if it was more of a "mystic bond" between user and crystal. Since it's RAW for the crystal to maintain the mods, I'm just going to say "She never bothered to mod her crystal, as she only used her saber as a last resort". No big issue for me, I don't mind house ruling things if need be, though I might just stick with my house rule of "the atunement resets when ownership changes", just for simplicity moving forward.

The way I figure, the crystal would remain attuned to its previous owner until such a time as it becomes attuned to its current owner. I have a similar situation in a game I'm running, wherein one character found and uses her mother's lightsaber. Had she tried to modify it when she got it, she wouldn't have received any of the perks since it was still attuned. I resolved she had to undergo "shared trauma" with the lightsaber, meaning she had to pass some trial in which the lightsaber played an integral part. That came when she was escaping from an Inquisitor's clutches and was able to steal the lightsaber back by yanking it out of the Inquisitor's hands and then stand her ground in order to protect her friends. I ruled that was suitably light side (and also awesome) so that the crystal now counted as hers for the purposes of modding.

I would do something similar. If your player wants to modify the crystal, that's fine, but she doesn't get the perks until she does something that attunes it to her. It being passed on by her mentor's Force ghost might work, but I'd make it more of an ordeal. Have it happen in a moment where she really connects with the Force or when she comes close to the Jedi ideals. If you've already told her it's hers, though, I wouldn't go back on it.

Agreed about the "holding her ground" scene! That sounds very awesometacular! Though let me clarify one thing about the saber being "hers". It's still not hers in the mechanical boost sense. She hasn't even turned it on for combat purposes yet. She (the PC is a she, the player a he, so apologies if I gender swap from time to time), turned it on when the dead Mentor's Padawan (now her teacher) officially gave it to her, after they both had a dream of the Mentor basically saying "You will train her!". So there was a bit of a thematic moment, of her holding it in front of her and lighting it that first time. But other than that, it's just hung from her hip. She's focused more on her Force powers. I was just saying that for my purposes in the story, it's her saber, but it's still not familiar with it yet. To give a movie comparison, it's like right after Luke got his father's saber from Ben in New Hope. To me, that is "his" saber now. It's a legacy saber, passed down from father to son, but he's still technically unfamiliar with it. He doesn't become proficient in it's use until Empire. That's kind of what I have in mind for her. It's her saber, as in there is no question of ownership, but it's still an unfamiliar object to her. I suspect the player, when he gets around to it, will probably re-work the saber to his own likings, as he is an Artisan, and I've given subtle in-game hints about how the "resonance of the blade hums through your very soul, but it feels just a little off, you're not sure why". Kind of hinting at "hey! You should probably rebuild it so that it's more "your" saber than it already is, as in dice modifiers! wink wink" He's just been busy doing other things for now.

If he tried to attune the crystal in our next session, I wouldn't give him any bonuses. If he first, decided to rebuild the saber hilt, or used it for several sessions in combat, while working up his lightsaber skill, then I'd say he would get the bonuses to attune.

Compare the stats on the "run of the mill" Lightsaber from EoE vs that presented in F&D.

EoE lists a basic hilt with a fully Modified Ilum crystal. It's got higher damage, lower Crit, the works. It's exactly what you're talking about... someone totally decked out their Lightsaber. Then they died / retired / got their hand cut off and dropped it... and now the PC picked it up and is using it. It has all the same stats, the only difference in the game mechanics is "personal lightsaber" for making further modifications.

So yes, you ~could~ set up a shop selling various grades of lightsabers, some you've barely tossed together, and some you've modified more or less than others. But it takes all the fun out of allowing / requiring the PCs to make their own. And a shop like that wouldn't really exist during the common gameplay era around Episodes 4-5. Vader is still alive and well, wandering the galaxy looking for any remnants of the Jedi Order. When someone sees your little shop, they call the Imperials, and suddenly your shop is no more.

So yes, you ~could~ set up a shop selling various grades of lightsabers, some you've barely tossed together, and some you've modified more or less than others. But it takes all the fun out of allowing / requiring the PCs to make their own. And a shop like that wouldn't really exist during the common gameplay era around Episodes 4-5. Vader is still alive and well, wandering the galaxy looking for any remnants of the Jedi Order. When someone sees your little shop, they call the Imperials, and suddenly your shop is no more.

Or worse, the Empire leaves the shop open to serve as bait for Jedi-wannabes. Let them buy their crystals… then take them in for "questioning" before they get a chance to install them.

Compare the stats on the "run of the mill" Lightsaber from EoE vs that presented in F&D.

EoE lists a basic hilt with a fully Modified Ilum crystal. It's got higher damage, lower Crit, the works. It's exactly what you're talking about... someone totally decked out their Lightsaber. Then they died / retired / got their hand cut off and dropped it... and now the PC picked it up and is using it. It has all the same stats, the only difference in the game mechanics is "personal lightsaber" for making further modifications.

So yes, you ~could~ set up a shop selling various grades of lightsabers, some you've barely tossed together, and some you've modified more or less than others. But it takes all the fun out of allowing / requiring the PCs to make their own. And a shop like that wouldn't really exist during the common gameplay era around Episodes 4-5. Vader is still alive and well, wandering the galaxy looking for any remnants of the Jedi Order. When someone sees your little shop, they call the Imperials, and suddenly your shop is no more.

...um, what shop? Who said anything about a shop? Also, this game isn't set during New Hope, it's SWTOR era, height of the Sith War.

I'm aware of what the differences in the stats are between a basic hilt and a fully tricked out one, that wasn't the question. I'm satisfied with what the RAW says, and either way, the end result is that the player has an unmodified hilt. I was simply curious if the way I was going to run it was RAW, and thus perfectly normal, of if I was house ruling it. Since what I want to do is against RAW, I'm just saying the mentor never bothered to trick out her saber, and thus that's why the player has a basic hilt.

Seriously, where did you get a shop?

I'm aware of what the differences in the stats are between a basic hilt and a fully tricked out one, that wasn't the question. I'm satisfied with what the RAW says, and either way, the end result is that the player has an unmodified hilt. I was simply curious if the way I was going to run it was RAW, and thus perfectly normal, of if I was house ruling it. Since what I want to do is against RAW, I'm just saying the mentor never bothered to trick out her saber, and thus that's why the player has a basic hilt.

Well, if it's the SWTOR era, then it's perfectly possible that the saber the PC inherited was just one of many the mentor made (or captured) over the course of her career. Since the PC is an Artisan, then it stands to reason the mentor is a Master "Jedi Artisan", and would have had created any number of extra sabers as a result of practice or experimentation.

The Jedi Artisan was first introduced into the setting by WotC, as part of their Living Force Campaign of the old RPGA Network's d20 Living Campaign system. It was created specifically as a lightsaber crafting (prestige) class. (Internet Archive: link)