Yeah, if you are second player with Gunnery Teams, you already stand to lose 7 points, and the upgrade slot. You stand to gain quite a bit, however.

Now you gain nothing, and lose 70-120 points.

Dr. Zoidberg that doesn't make sense.

Some people just need to Wean themselves off the Gunnery-Team-Teat.

Or Advanced Gunnery more likely, lol.

That's OK, I haven't used Advanced Gunnery since Wave 2 released.

Thats the thing I don't get about it. No one was playing this objective anyway, and now half the lists that took it probably wont. So what has been accomplished?

I suppose maybe now those lists take a suboptimal red objective that has a higher chance of being picked?

Well yeah, a most like Vader's Duet would be so punished for having Advanced Gunnery (I think both ships typically run Gun Teams.)

I run an ISD, and a GSD, so I could get away with it by selecting the GSD - but that's still not enough reason to run it now that my ISD couldn't get any benefit.

It doesn't nerf Gun Teams, it definitely nerfs Advanced Gunnery, an objective that didn't really need nerfing.

One thing I think this does is force double and triple-ISD wielders to think. Gunnery Teams are so good with those lists but now you have to give first player the option of Most Wanted/Opening Salvo/Precision Strike. (Unless you feel like getting no benefit from the objective!)

-smirks at the Advanced Gunnery vs. Gunnery Teams interaction- I mentioned this as an issue back in one IFF thread with the whole 'Golden Rule' thing, got dismissed then too but I also wrote in with the question and was told the same thing. So it's weird to see it change.

I'm not exactly happy that it works that way, but I can see why it does. Garm gives absolutely zero benefit for second player Precision Strike, so it's not like second player always gained a benefit from Missions. The whole XI7 sided with the negation clause as well, so I guess I'm sorta happy to see that the Golden Rule of 'If a card uses the word “cannot,” that effect is absolute” didn't end up as just the Pyrite Suggestion.

Im taking credit for this one lol

"Intel Officer: A ship with this card equipped can choose 1 of its own defense tokens when resolving this card."

because this thread

Yes. That's the Thread I mentioned. Thank you for Finding it. I did not feel up to it.

Read At Risk.

[...] Intuitively we always played where Advanced Gunnery wins because it's the better benefit, and I was wondering why this ruling was necessary. But maybe they are setting a precedent that Upgrade Cards > Objective Cards > Rules Reference. I wonder what other upgrade cards they have cooking that might override objectives...

I'm happy considering it as a Nerf to Gunnery Teams.

But very biased as I'm mostly personally just sick that they are "Required Upgrades" and nothing else sees table time unless I am the weirdo doing it...

Yes, it does seem to be a nerf to Gunnery Teams, but I don't think that was their purpose. I think their purpose was process oriented - showing order of precedence for components, as Miferr is suggesting.

Thats the thing I don't get about it. No one was playing this objective anyway,

I pick my opponent's AG all the time when I run swarms. If I leave two corvettes in the front arc of that Gunnery Team ISD, they're both getting one-shotted anyway.

Meanwhile, that ISD is going to die, and I'm quite happy getting double points for it. Because somehow everybody forgets about that nice little caveat when picking their objective ship.

I stand corrected. No one except Ard was playing it anyway.

All this wonderful news just in time to mess up regionals! God bless their staff who does their proofreading. Oh wait...

Although to be fair, when I submitted a claim for a replacement IG-88 for X-Wing, they sent me a Raider! I work customer service, so I know what it's like when the shop messes up a warranty order. It's pretty humbling to take that phone call or email.

The actual rules still are in effect regarding use of more than one tool don't forget...this tournament document just states what is different for tournament play. If it doesn't say it...then default back to the rules. Not say that it doesn't apply anymore.

Wow. That is an absolutely horrible ruling. How did this improve gameplay? If someone previously took gunnery team and this objective as the second player they only gained a little. Now they lose the entire benefit if they are second player.

Yep, so don't do it now - one way or the other

Letting people have the best of both worlds all the time can be argued as equally horrid.

Wow. That is an absolutely horrible ruling. How did this improve gameplay? If someone previously took gunnery team and this objective as the second player they only gained a little. Now they lose the entire benefit if they are second player.

No, they still gained an absolute TON and more than gained for the 7pts they invested on GT. Second player Advanced Gunnery is as close to Palpatine screaming "Unlimited POOOOOOWER!!!" as this game allows.

What this ruling does do is it means that Imperial lists and Guppy Ackbar lists where every ship has Gunnery Team can't just take a mindless Advanced Gunnery as their Red choice (typically they did, forcing their opponents to choose from only their Blue or Yellow objective). So now those lists have to either leave one Gunnery Team at home OR they have to pick a different Red Objective, which gives a little more breathing room to their opponents when it comes time to pick an objective.

It also follows with the rules of the Gunnery Team card as written, so there's that...

All in all, I think it's a good ruling that should cause a little more thoughtfulness in Gunnery Team spammed ISD and Guppy lists choosing their Red Objective.

Yep, so don't do it now - one way or the other

Letting people have the best of both worlds all the time can be argued as equally horrid.

It isn't the best of both worlds, though. If your opponent picks your Advanced Gunnery you don't get a 7 point refund, and a new upgrade selection for that slot.

It isn't the best of both worlds, though. If your opponent picks your Advanced Gunnery you don't get a 7 point refund, and a new upgrade selection for that slot.

You have misread me.

My argument was that having Gunnery Teams AND Advanced Gunnery the way it was, ergo, having your pick of the Best of those two Rules, was the Best of Both Worlds.

Now, no, it certainly isn't.

Now its certainly Pick one or the other.

If you put Gunnery Teams and Advanced Gunnery in your List, then you go forward knowing its not a good idea.

Not much different than taking Cluster Bombs for your only Defensive Retrofit.

You can certainly do it. Its Legal. Its honest.

But if you do, you've got no-one to blame but yourself.

I want to win a tournament spamming cluster bombs. I think the resulting forum discussion would be hilarious.

I want to win a tournament spamming cluster bombs. I think the resulting forum discussion would be hilarious.

Come on Mads don't do it. Everybody knows Cluster Bombs are OP.

I want to win a tournament spamming cluster bombs. I think the resulting forum discussion would be hilarious.

Where do you even begin with that one?

I want to win a tournament spamming cluster bombs. I think the resulting forum discussion would be hilarious.

Throwing a few threads together, your ultimate goal must be:

Triple MC80s with Cluster Bombs on each.

And X-Wings for any squadrons you take.

I don't get people freaking out? Are you guys only taking one ship fleets?

Can someone explain the Range Example with the CR90 and the Victory? How does the front arc of the cr90 not have the back arc of the victory? I don't see dot to dot crossing the hull zone line.

Can someone explain the Range Example with the CR90 and the Victory? How does the front arc of the cr90 not have the back arc of the victory? I don't see dot to dot crossing the hull zone line.

You are right, the LoS are probably ok. However, the back arc of the VSD are not in the front arc of the CR90, so the LoS doesn't matter.

I don't get people freaking out? Are you guys only taking one ship fleets?

I don't think anyone is flipping out. It's just a weird and needless change.

The actual rules still are in effect regarding use of more than one tool don't forget...this tournament document just states what is different for tournament play. If it doesn't say it...then default back to the rules. Not say that it doesn't apply anymore.

Right, but IIRC the One-Tool Rule comes from the old Tournament Rules. It's not anywhere else, and so - if the Tournament Rules are now replaced (and made void) by the Tournament Regulations, then the One-Rule Tool is no longer active. You can put away your fingers and start triangulating with all your range rulers and manneuver tools again.

At least, that's how I understand it.

The actual rules still are in effect regarding use of more than one tool don't forget...this tournament document just states what is different for tournament play. If it doesn't say it...then default back to the rules. Not say that it doesn't apply anymore.

Right, but IIRC the One-Tool Rule comes from the old Tournament Rules. It's not anywhere else, and so - if the Tournament Rules are now replaced (and made void) by the Tournament Regulations, then the One-Rule Tool is no longer active. You can put away your fingers and start triangulating with all your range rulers and manneuver tools again.

At least, that's how I understand it.

I agree. Drasnighta sums it up well what would be the case if they in fact do not alter the Tournament regulation-document in the "The one-tool rule and fingers" topic in the rule section of the forum (https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/204521-the-one-tool-rule-and-fingers/page-2):

"Additionally, though - we still have this titbit in the rules, and the FAQ:

Tournament Regulations:

Custom “setup” templates designed to aid players in ship deployment are not allowed. Players can only use their range rulers to help them set up fleets during deployment.

FAQ:

Q: When can a player premeasure with the maneuver tool?

A: A player can only premeasure with the maneuver tool during his ship’s “Determine Course” step and only for that ship.

So, if we are to sum changes up (to take effect in April, assuming no further revisions:)

You may Premeasure with the Range Ruler at any time (still).

There is no restriction about premeasuring and leaving a Token (new)

You can only Premeasure at any time with the Ranger Ruler, the Maneuver Tool is still only for your Ship during the Maneuver segment.

There may indeed be no restriction on premeasuring with the maneuver tool and the Range Ruler at the same time."